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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
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What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #60 on: 30/04/2023 06:56:55 »
Here's the next video.
Quote
In this video, I walk through the derivation of an extension of the factorial function that works for any number: fractional, irrational, and even complex! This turns out to be a very important function, known as the gamma function, which has many surprising connections, one of which I explore in the last chapter of the video.

Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:38 A few Disclaimers
3:58 The Recursive Formula
6:50 The Super Recursive Formula
8:45 A minor setback
10:28 Logarithms
15:21 Deriving the Solution
19:26 Our Constraints
20:25 History and Conventions
22:16 The Miracle
25:44 The End
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #61 on: 30/04/2023 07:02:25 »
Gamma function somehow appears in the analytic continuation of Zeta function. This video explores its connections with other functions.


Quote
In this video, we build on my last two videos by exploring connections between the gamma function (the extended factorials), the digamma function (the extended harmonic numbers), and trigonometry. We derive Euler's Sine Product Formula, which we then use to prove the gamma and digamma functions' reflection formulas. Finally, we derive a related formula for calculating cotangent.

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
0:43 Background and Notation
3:24 The Digamma-Cotangent Connection
5:09 The Gamma-Sine Connection
6:04 The Sine Product Formula
9:59 Proving the Gamma-Sine Connection
12:22 The value of (1/2)!
13:07 Proving the Digamma-Cotangent Connection
14:21 The True Logarithmic Derivative
15:52 An Infinite Sum for Cotangent
17:46 Final Thoughts
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #62 on: 18/05/2023 17:08:43 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/07/2022 03:51:56
When Riemann zeta function produces 0 result, ζ(s) = 0, at least one of these terms is 0
1) 2s  = 0 →  s = -∞
2) πs-1  = 0 →  s = -∞
3) sin(πs/2).Γ(1-s) = 0  →  s ∈ {negative even numbers}
4) ζ(1-s) = 0 = ζ(s)

Point #3 gives trivial zeros, while point #4 gives non-trivial zeros.
when 1-s=s  → 1=2s  →  s=0.5
But  ζ(0.5) <> 0
Since  ζ(s)* = ζ(s*)
When ζ(s) = 0, ζ(s*) = 0* = 0,
point #4 gives non-trivial zeros.
when 1-s=s*  → 1=s+s*   
→  s = 0.5 + iy
1-s=s* can only be achieved when real part of s = 0.5
Disproving Riemann's hypothesis implies that
non-trivial zero of zeta function can exist not on critical line, which implies that
ζ(s) can be 0 in critical stripe while Re(s) <> 0.5 , which also implies that
1-s <> s* while ζ(s) = 0 = ζ(1-s) = ζ(s*) = ζ(1-s*)
Proving Riemann's hypothesis means demonstrating that those implications lead to contradiction.
« Last Edit: 20/05/2023 09:13:41 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #63 on: 23/05/2023 22:21:09 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/07/2022 00:23:37
ζ(s) + ζ(1-s*)=0
ζ(s) - ζ(1-s*)=0
Let's plot those equations with values of s where the real part is 0.5.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28zeta%280.5%2Bis%29+%2Bzeta%280.5-is%29%29+from+0+to+30
In this plot, all the imaginary part of zeta function is always zero.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28zeta%280.5%2Bis%29+-zeta%280.5-is%29%29+from+0+to+30
In this plot, all the real part of zeta function is always zero.

Compare them with values of s where the real part is other than 0.5.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28zeta%280.7%2Bis%29+%2Bzeta%280.3-is%29%29+from+0+to+30
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28zeta%280.7%2Bis%29+-zeta%280.3-is%29%29+from+0+to+30

« Last Edit: 23/05/2023 22:25:27 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #64 on: 23/05/2023 22:34:47 »
Let's focus on the imaginary part of the addition equation.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+im%28zeta%280.5%2Bis%29+%2B+zeta%280.5-is%29%29+from+0+to+30
And the real part of the subtraction equation.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28zeta%280.5%2Bis%29+-+zeta%280.5-is%29%29+from+0+to+30
They are always zero.

Compare them to the value of s where the real part is slightly different from 0.5.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+im%28zeta%280.5001%2Bis%29+%2B+zeta%280.4999-is%29%29+from+0+to+30

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28zeta%280.5001%2Bis%29+-+zeta%280.4999-is%29%29+from+0+to+30

These results have implications that there are infinitely many more zeta zeros where the real part is 0.5, compared to other values. Although they haven't guaranteed that there's no non-trivial zeta zero other than those on the critical line.
« Last Edit: 23/05/2023 22:58:19 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline Eternal Student

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #65 on: 24/05/2023 11:59:19 »
Hi.

I don't know if you've noticed but some of the old posts are going wrong.
Example:   Examine the section in quotes in post #39:

It’s not likely that a single line will pass through all of them

Presumably you once had an apostrophe but it's changed to an accented letter a,  one Euro currency symbol and finally a Trade Mark symbol.

Sometimes pictures or diagrams just go missing.   If there were any mathematical symbols produced with LaTeX coding, then they've almost certainly gone.   Overall the forum is having a problem  (see other discussions like https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=70438.msg705025#msg705025 about a server migration due to excessive costs).   There's no guarantee of anything in this thread (or any other) being safely stored or maintained in a way capable of being read by someone else in the future.   
    I'm not staff but I just thought you might like to be aware of the problem.

Best Wishes.
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #66 on: 29/05/2023 22:16:03 »
When we click on our own Nickname...
It takes us to the Account info & summary page..
Within the ' Modify Profile ' tab, the last option is listed as ' Export Data ' .

Never tried it, but assuming it does what it says.
Perhaps a way to Copy all your own Posts n save them in some other place.

Anyways, all We need is some land n some water n a lil sunshine, the garden will grow back & flowers shall blossom again.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #67 on: 30/12/2023 09:13:15 »
Just found another video trying to proof Riemann's Hypothesis.
A Chilling Proof Involving the Trivial Zeros of the Riemann Zeta Function
Quote
What if you could group the trivial zeros of the Riemann zeta function with any hypothetical non-trivial zero off the critical line.  And what if this group could not exist within the critical strip?  Wouldn't this proof that the Riemann hypothesis is correct?

It's part of a video series by the same author.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1Ma8q5auD8wPaJ53aL0u4W61SQ4IBUl&pp=iAQB
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #68 on: 30/12/2023 16:30:19 »
Bit of an aside:

Quote from: Zer0 on 22/03/2023 19:47:39
But...is there a Pattern to predict Primes without Calculations?

No. But there is a formal proof (which I don't have) that there is no pattern to prime numbers!

Intuitively, as N increases, there are more integers less than √N that could be factors of N, so primes get sparser as you search for them, hence the need for some hefty computing to find large primes by brute force.   
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #69 on: 02/02/2024 14:23:44 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/03/2023 08:21:05
When a small imaginary number is added to the plot, we get different peculiarity.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot%28im%28zeta+%28x%2Bi%2F10e13%29%29%29+from+-42+to+-40
 
It is not clear yet if it's just an artefact caused by rounding error in the algorithm, or it's an inherent feature of Zeta function. Although, the first case seems to be more likely.
I'm now pretty sure that the jiggy curve is caused by truncated calculations of the numeric method.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #70 on: 04/02/2024 09:56:32 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/06/2022 15:54:10
Someone thinks that he might have solved the problem
It seems like he has realized his mistake.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #71 on: 04/02/2024 10:30:36 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/07/2022 04:09:15
Riemann's hypothesis can be proven by showing that ζ(s) - ζ(1-s*) = 0 if and only if s=1-s*, which implies that Re(s)=1/2
We can construct an equation
 α=( Ιζ(s)Ι - Ιζ(1-s*)Ι )/(s-1+s*)
If RH is true, α is never zero with any finite value of s.
Because on critical line the denominator is 0.

If ω=1/α, then RH implies that ω is always finite.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2024 11:03:05 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #72 on: 10/02/2024 22:15:20 »
There are some implications that must occur in case of non-trivial zero of Zeta function outside of the critical line. For brevity, I'll call them exceptional zero. Riemann hypothesis basically said that they don't exist.
For the sake of the argument, let's first assume that they exist. For every exceptional zero, there are normal zeros (non-trivial zeros on the critical line) slightly above and below it in the complex number plane.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2024 08:26:59 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #73 on: 13/02/2024 11:23:23 »
I asked Google Gemini.
Why it's said that "The functional equation also implies that the zeta function has no zeros with negative real part other than the trivial zeros"?

It answered.
Quote
The statement "The functional equation also implies that the zeta function has no zeros with negative real part other than the trivial zeros" is true, but understanding why requires some familiarity with complex analysis and the properties of the Riemann zeta function. Here's a breakdown:

1. What is the Riemann zeta function?

The Riemann zeta function, denoted by ζ(s), is a function defined for complex numbers 's' (except for 's = 1'). It plays a crucial role in understanding prime numbers and other important areas of mathematics.

2. What are the trivial zeros?

The zeta function has some "obvious" zeros, called trivial zeros, at negative even integers (-2, -4, -6, etc.). These occur because the series definition of the zeta function diverges at these points.

3. What is the functional equation?

The functional equation is a powerful relationship between the zeta function at 's' and its value at 1 - s. It essentially "mirrors" the behavior of the function across the line Re(s) = 1/2 (where Re(s) denotes the real part of 's').

4. How does the functional equation imply no zeros with negative real parts?

Suppose ζ(s) had a non-trivial zero with a negative real part, say at s = -a (where a is positive). By the functional equation, this would imply another zero at s = 1 + a, which has a positive real part.

However, we know that the zeta function only diverges at negative even integers, and it is non-zero for all other positive real values. Therefore, a zero at 1 + a would contradict this property.

This contradiction arises because having a zero with a negative real part essentially "unpairs" the relationship between s and 1 - s through the functional equation. Since such "unpairing" leads to inconsistencies, it follows that such zeros cannot exist.

5. Important note:
This explanation necessarily simplifies a complex mathematical argument. For a rigorous understanding, deeper knowledge of complex analysis and the properties of the zeta function is required.

It used proof from contradiction. IMO, Riemann hypothesis will also be proven in similar fashion.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #74 on: 13/02/2024 11:30:29 »
I followed up with a question. Is there zero of Zeta function with real part greater than 1/2?
Quote
No, there are no zeros of the Riemann zeta function with real part greater than 1/2. This is a known result in mathematics, but with two levels of "known":

Level 1: Proven results:

For Re(s) > 1: We can prove using the Euler product formula that the zeta function is never zero in this region.
For Re(s) = 1: While not as simple as the first point, it has also been proven that the zeta function does not have any zeros on the line Re(s) = 1.

Level 2: Unsolved but highly likely:
The Riemann Hypothesis: This famous conjecture posits that all non-trivial zeros of the zeta function lie on the "critical line" where Re(s) = 1/2. Although unproven, it is widely believed to be true based on extensive numerical calculations and theoretical evidence.

In conclusion, with high confidence, we can say that there are no zeros of the Riemann zeta function with real part greater than 1/2. If you're interested in learning more about the zeta function and its zeros, I can provide further information or point you towards relevant resources.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #75 on: 15/03/2024 12:07:46 »
I'd like to introduce a function, which I call Y function, just because that's how its plot look like in complex plane. It can also called upsilon function, just to sound more geeky. It's defined as follow:
Y(s)=ln{ζ(s) - ζ(1-s*)}

plot (ln((zeta(s+30*i)) - (Zeta(1-s+30*i))) )from -2 to 3
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2B30.i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B30.i%29%29%29+%29from+-2+to+3


plot (ln((zeta(s+30*i)) - (Zeta(1-s+30*i))) )from -22 to 23
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2B30.i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B30.i%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23


This function was inspired by
Quote
Riemann knew that the non-trivial zeros of the zeta function were symmetrically distributed about the line s = 1/2 + it, and he knew that all of its non-trivial zeros must lie in the range 0 ≤ Re(s) ≤ 1. He checked that a few of the zeros lay on the critical line with real part 1/2 and suggested that they all do; this is the Riemann hypothesis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_hypothesis
1-s* is the formula reflecting point s with respect to critical line x=1/2.

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 171205.png (42.01 kB, 708x567 - viewed 355 times.)

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 171240.png (50.51 kB, 705x571 - viewed 319 times.)
« Last Edit: 18/03/2024 10:15:08 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #76 on: 15/03/2024 12:27:17 »
For every non-trivial zero,
ζ(s)=0
ζ(1-s*)=0
ζ(s) - ζ(1-s*) = 0

when the difference is plotted, the curve is hard to comprehend.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28%28%28zeta%28s%2B30.i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B30.i%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23



But when logarithmic function is applied to that difference, a simple pattern shows up.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2B30.i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B30.i%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 175512.png (42.02 kB, 696x530 - viewed 341 times.)

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 175537.png (50.33 kB, 689x565 - viewed 355 times.)
« Last Edit: 18/03/2024 11:21:26 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #77 on: 15/03/2024 12:38:22 »
Here are some interesting facts about the function:
when s is real, we get a different shape with many discontinuities.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23


when imaginary part of s is more than 0, the discontinuities disappear, except at re(s)=1/2
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2Bi%2F2%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2Bi%2F2%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23


https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2Bi%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2Bi%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23


https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2B4.i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B4.i%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23


when imaginary part of s is more than 6, the curve of real part only crosses x axis twice.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2B6.i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B6.i%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 173841.png (49.19 kB, 708x534 - viewed 350 times.)

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 173915.png (59.09 kB, 707x598 - viewed 523 times.)

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 175118.png (54.24 kB, 702x564 - viewed 338 times.)

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 175142.png (55.41 kB, 698x568 - viewed 337 times.)

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 175231.png (56.57 kB, 702x568 - viewed 486 times.)
« Last Edit: 18/03/2024 12:13:32 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #78 on: 15/03/2024 12:47:56 »
when imaginary part of s is close to the smallest non-trivial zero of Riemann's zeta function
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2B14.134725+i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B14.134725+i%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23


Any larger value for the imaginary part of s don't change shape of the real part of Y function, only the imaginary part gets longer period.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28ln%28%28zeta%28s%2B114.134725+i%29%29+-+%28Zeta%281-s%2B114.134725+i%29%29%29+%29from+-22+to+23

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 191940.png (56.86 kB, 765x575 - viewed 410 times.)

* Screenshot 2024-03-18 192006.png (51.74 kB, 796x568 - viewed 401 times.)
« Last Edit: 18/03/2024 12:33:21 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #79 on: 15/03/2024 12:52:10 »
Rejecting Riemann's hypothesis would require the Y function to behave irregularly for some values of s with high imaginary part (higher than 10 trillion), which clearly violates the pattern shown above.
« Last Edit: 11/05/2024 03:20:34 by hamdani yusuf »
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