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  4. What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
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What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #180 on: 28/06/2024 13:55:16 »
Here's the plot from 0 to i
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%287%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-7%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29-re%28log%28zeta%286%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2-re%28log%28zeta%288%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-8%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2+from+0+to+1

Between 0 and 10i
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%287%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-7%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29-re%28log%28zeta%286%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2-re%28log%28zeta%288%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-8%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2+from+0+to+10
At around i1.8 the curve seems to bend sharper than elsewhere.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #181 on: 28/06/2024 14:02:28 »
Here's the plot without log
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+%28zeta%287%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-7%2B+t+i%29%29%29-%28zeta%286%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2-%28zeta%288%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-8%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2+from+0+to+10

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28%28zeta%287%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-7%2B+t+i%29%29%29-%28zeta%286%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2-%28zeta%288%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-8%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2%29+from+0+to+2

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28%28zeta%287%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-7%2B+t+i%29%29%29-%28zeta%286%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2-%28zeta%288%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-8%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2%29+from+0+to+10
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #182 on: 29/06/2024 11:21:04 »
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+log%28%28zeta%287%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-7%2B+t+i%29%29%29-%28zeta%286%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2-%28zeta%288%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-8%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2%29+from+0+to+10
This shows how the height of the spike evolves from low to high imaginary part.

The higher imaginary part, the smaller the spikes become.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%287%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-7%2B+t+i%29%29%29-%28zeta%286%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2-%28zeta%288%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-8%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2%29+%29+from+100+to+110
« Last Edit: 29/06/2024 11:58:37 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #183 on: 07/07/2024 15:41:40 »
Let's apply the spike detector around the critical line.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%280.5%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.5%2B+t+i%29%29%29-%28zeta%280.49%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.49%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2-%28zeta%280.51%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.51%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2%29+%29+from+-5+to+30

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%280.5%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.5%2B+t+i%29%29%29-%28zeta%280.4%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.4%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2-%28zeta%280.6%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%2F2%29+%29+from+0+to+30
« Last Edit: 07/07/2024 15:46:23 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #184 on: 07/07/2024 16:50:38 »
This is also a spike detector https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.5%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.5%2B+t+i%29%29%29-re%28log%28zeta%280.4%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.4%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2-re%28log%28zeta%280.6%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.6%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2%29+from+0+to+30

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.5%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.5%2B+t+i%29%29%29-re%28log%28zeta%280.49%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.49%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2-re%28log%28zeta%280.51%2B+t+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-0.51%2B+t+i%29%29%29%29%2F2%29+from+0+to+30

These show the precision limit of Wolfram alpha. It should be 0 due to symmetrysymmetry of the S function about the critical line.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2024 17:01:25 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #185 on: 08/07/2024 21:43:03 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/05/2024 07:44:04
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re+%28log%28%28zeta%280.49999%2B+s+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49999+%2B+s+i%29%29%29%29+from+-9+to+9

Plotted symmetrically, it looks like the letter V. So, I'll just call it V function.
At a glance the right hand side looks like a logarithmic function. But this is how it looks when the log is dropped.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot++%28abs%28%28zeta%280.49%2B+i+s%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49+%2B+i+s+%29%29%29%29+from+-9+to+9

When it's exponentiated.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+e%5E%28abs%28%28zeta%280.49%2B+i+s%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49+%2B+i+s+%29%29%29%29+from+-9+to+9
And doubly exponentiated.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+e%5Ee%5E%28abs%28%28zeta%280.49%2B+i+s%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49+%2B+i+s+%29%29%29%29+from+-9+to+9
When s is replaced by e^s, we get a curve resembling a linear function on the right hand side.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot++%28abs%28%28zeta%280.49%2B+i+e%5Es%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49+%2B+i+e%5Es+%29%29%29%29+from+-9+to+9
« Last Edit: 08/07/2024 21:51:13 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #186 on: 09/07/2024 05:13:50 »
When absolute value of s is used.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot++%28abs%28%28zeta%280.49%2B+i+e%5E%7Cs%7C%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49+%2B+i+e%5E%7Cs%7C+%29%29%29%29+from+-9+to+9

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot++%28abs%28%28zeta%280.49%2B+i+e%5E%7Cs%7C%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49+%2B+i+e%5E%7Cs%7C+%29%29%29%29+from+-1+to+1

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot++%28abs%28%28zeta%280.49%2B+i+e%5E%7Cs%7C%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-0.49+%2B+i+e%5E%7Cs%7C+%29%29%29%29+from+-0.1+to+0.1
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #187 on: 09/07/2024 12:55:33 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 19/06/2024 06:47:57
It turns out that Zeta (2 pi i) isn't exactly the same as Zeta (1+2 pi i).
This plot shows where they become the same.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28+zeta%28i+x%29+%2Fzeta%281%2Bi+x%29+%29+%29+from+2+pi+to+2.00000002+pi

It's close to 2.00000001 π
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #188 on: 09/07/2024 13:06:10 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 19/05/2024 06:22:53
A more accurate inflection curve has a slightly bigger imaginary number.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%28x%2B+2.002117+pi+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-x%2B+2.002117+pi+i%29%29%29%


https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28+zeta%280.499999+%2B+i+x%29+%2Fzeta%281-0.499999%2Bi+x%29+%29+%29++from+2+pi+to+2.004+pi
While the inflection point seems to be close to 2.002 π

In these plots, it seems like we are getting close to the precision limit of Wolfram alpha.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.499999%2Bi+x%29%2Fzeta%281-0.499999%2Bi+x%29%29%29+from+2.0021169+pi+to+2.0021171+pi

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.499999%2Bi+x%29%2Fzeta%281-0.499999%2Bi+x%29%29%29+from+2.00211695+pi+to+2.0021170+pi

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.49999999%2Bi+x%29%2Fzeta%281-0.49999999%2Bi+x%29%29%29+from+2.00211695+pi+to+2.0021171+pi
« Last Edit: 12/07/2024 05:41:09 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #189 on: 16/07/2024 09:49:25 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/07/2024 12:55:33
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 19/06/2024 06:47:57
It turns out that Zeta (2 pi i) isn't exactly the same as Zeta (1+2 pi i).
This plot shows where they become the same.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28+zeta%28i+x%29+%2Fzeta%281%2Bi+x%29+%29+%29+from+2+pi+to+2.00000002+pi

It's close to 2.00000001 π
The plot below shows where the S function produces zero as output where the real part of input deviates from the critical line.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.5-10%5E-1%2Bi+x%29%2Fzeta%280.5%2B10%5E-1%2Bi+x%29%29%29+from+2.002032256+pi+to++2.00203229+pi

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.5-10%5E-4%2Bi+x%29%2Fzeta%280.5%2B10%5E-4%2Bi+x%29%29%29+from+2.002116+pi+to+2.0021179+pi

And manually make the plot.

* Screenshot 2024-07-16 154817.png (76.05 kB, 1760x447 - viewed 259 times.)
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #190 on: 16/07/2024 15:16:20 »
y in the table above represents the imaginary part of S function that produce a curve that crosses zero at positions +/- x distance away from critical line.
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #191 on: 17/07/2024 11:45:19 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/07/2024 09:49:25

The plot below shows where the S function produces zero as output where the real part of input deviates from the critical line.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.5-10%5E-1%2Bi+x%29%2Fzeta%280.5%2B10%5E-1%2Bi+x%29%29%29+from+2.002032256+pi+to++2.00203229+pi

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%280.5-10%5E-4%2Bi+x%29%2Fzeta%280.5%2B10%5E-4%2Bi+x%29%29%29+from+2.002116+pi+to+2.0021179+pi

And manually make the plot.

It turns out that the curve I obtained from visual approximation is very close to a quadratic equation.

* Screenshot 2024-07-17 174303.png (45.13 kB, 1008x441 - viewed 236 times.)
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #192 on: 17/07/2024 12:09:08 »
When the negative x is included, we get a nice parabolic curve.



This shows that when the imaginary part its input is above i(2+β)π, which is the inflection limit, S function can not produce 0 when the input has non-zero distance from the critical line. β≈0.002117...
Consequently, Riemann's Zeta function cannot produce zero out of critical line when the imaginary part its input is above i(2+β)π.

* Screenshot 2024-07-17 175644.png (18.58 kB, 536x398 - viewed 240 times.)
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #193 on: 20/07/2024 12:54:36 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 19/05/2024 06:22:53
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 17/05/2024 05:14:38
We get a nice full wave when the imaginary part is exactly 2*pi
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%28x%2B+2+pi+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-x%2B+2+pi+i%29%29%29%29from+0+to+1


But later on, we found out that S function  doesn't produce 0 at exactly 2πi.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/07/2024 12:55:33
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 19/06/2024 06:47:57
It turns out that Zeta (2 pi i) isn't exactly the same as Zeta (1+2 pi i).
This plot shows where they become the same.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28+zeta%28i+x%29+%2Fzeta%281%2Bi+x%29+%29+%29+from+2+pi+to+2.00000002+pi

It's close to 2.00000001 π
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28zeta%28x%2B+2.00000001+pi+i%29+%2F%28Zeta%281-x%2B+2.00000001+pi+i%29%29%29%29from+0+to+1
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #194 on: 20/07/2024 13:44:49 »
It looks like a cubic equation with roots at 0, 0.5, and 1.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.00000001+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.00000001+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-i%2F235.96+%28x%29%28x-0.5%29%28x-1%29+from+0+to+1

But when zoomed out, it's different.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.00000001+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.00000001+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-i%2F235.96+%28x%29%28x-0.5%29%28x-1%29+from+-5+to+6
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #195 on: 20/07/2024 13:56:18 »
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-+i%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3+from+0+to+1
The inflection point looks like a cubic equation.

Here's when zoomed in around imaginary axis
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-+i%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3+from+0+to+0.001

and around critical line
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-+i%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3+from+0.45+to+0.55

But when zoomed out, it's still different.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-+i%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3+from+-5+to+6
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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #196 on: 21/07/2024 03:56:55 »
This plot shows a more precise value of the inflection point of S function. It's near the precision limit of Wolfram alpha.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.0021169777+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.0021169777+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-+i%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3+from+0.4999+to+0.5001


Even slightly higher imaginary part leads to an obviously negative slope curve, eliminating the possibility of nontrivial zero outside of the critical line.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.002117+pi+i%29%29%29%29+-+i%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3+from+0.4999+to+0.5001


* Screenshot 2024-07-21 095619.png (30.32 kB, 569x473 - viewed 233 times.)
« Last Edit: 21/07/2024 14:44:35 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #197 on: 21/07/2024 07:47:50 »
The study of S function around its inflection point can be crucial for proof of Riemann hypothesis. It can be done by demonstrating that its behavior above the inflection point can be generalized up to infinity.
The aforementioned important behavior is that for any point s on the right side of the critical line above the inflection point in complex plane, its S function is always smaller than S function of its reflection about the critical line. They can't be equally zero, which is contrary to the functional equation for Riemann Zeta function.
Thus nontrivial zero of Riemann Zeta function can't be on the right side nor the left side of the critical line. They must be precisely on the critical line.
« Last Edit: 21/07/2024 14:20:08 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #198 on: 24/07/2024 23:12:59 »
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29%29%29+%2B%281%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3%29+%2Bi%2F30400%28x%29%28x-0.5%29%5E3%28x-1%29from+-0+to+1
When the S function at inflection point is "corrected" using a cubic equation, there's still a quintic equation "residue".

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29%29%29+%2B%281%2F236.31+%28x-0.5%29%5E3%29+-1%2F30400%28x%29%28x-0.5%29%5E3%28x-1%29from+-0.01+to+1.01
Even when both corrections are applied, there's still some residue.
« Last Edit: 24/07/2024 23:16:48 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What makes Riemann's Hypothesis Hard to Prove?
« Reply #199 on: 30/07/2024 09:28:27 »
Let's go down the rabbit hole of curve fitting.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29%29%29+%2B%281%2F236.30994+%28x-0.5%29%5E3%29+-1%2F30391.7%28x%29%28x-0.5%29%5E3%28x-1%29+-+i%2F2300000%28x%29%28x-0.2%29%28x-0.5%29%28x-0.8%29%28x-1%29from+0+to+1

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29%29%29+%2B%281%2F236.30994+%28x-0.5%29%5E3%29+-1%2F30391.7%28x%29%28x-0.5%29%5E3%28x-1%29+-+i%2F2150000%28x%29%28x-0.2%29%28x-0.5%29%28x-0.8%29%28x-1%29from+0+to+1

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+re%28log%28%28zeta%28x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29+%2F+%28Zeta%281-x%2B2.0021169954+pi+i%29%29%29%29+%2B%281%2F236.30994+%28x-0.5%29%5E3%29+-1%2F30391.7%28x%29%28x-0.5%29%5E3%28x-1%29+-+i%2F2480000%28x%29%28x-0.2%29%28x-0.5%29%28x-0.8%29%28x-1%29from+0+to+1
« Last Edit: 30/07/2024 09:34:08 by hamdani yusuf »
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