The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. General Science
  3. General Science
  4. How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?

  • 12 Replies
  • 7446 Views
  • 2 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline remotemass (OP)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 95
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« on: 24/09/2022 10:40:11 »
Of course, genetic code sequencing is still quite expensive but let's say that you have a million drops of blood from different individuals from city A and as they arrive one by one at city B, you would have to predict/identify with great accuracy the individual that has just arrived recently taking new blood from him and comparing it to the million of other samples.
What would be the most affordable way that was quite reliable and accurate at least to make a very good triage of it all? What chemicals or markers would you be looking at? Could sucrose levels or sodium chloride levels help or even be good enough to be considered sufficient?
Logged
Creator of CubicPostcode | Transforming the way we address geographic locations
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21167
  • Activity:
    60.5%
  • Thanked: 61 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #1 on: 24/09/2022 11:37:06 »
The DNA test will pretty well identify an individual with odds of misidentification lower than 1:1,000,000, but if you want to know how long he has lived in a particular area, you'd need to look at the isotopic constitution of his teeth or bones, and that is diet-dependent, changes very slowly, and may not distinguish between modern urban environments where food and water may originate from a long way away!.

Sucrose and electrolyte levels vary from minute to minute. At best, you might suspect that your target is diabetic or addicted to "energy drinks" - or maybe just likes salt on his chips.   
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31103
  • Activity:
    9.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #2 on: 24/09/2022 11:47:09 »
Disney use fingerprinting to make sure you don't pass your multi-day ticket to someone else.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0

Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11036
  • Activity:
    9.5%
  • Thanked: 1486 times
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #3 on: 24/09/2022 12:07:24 »
The first case where DNA sequencing played a major role in identifying the killer was a serial killer called the "Golden State Killer".
- The police had DNA samples from the crime scenes. This is ennough to confirm a suspect is or is not the criminal.
- However, in this case, there was no suspect, and this man did not have his DNA on record, so the police couldn't find an exact match
- However, public DNA databases (Ancestry.com, 21andme etc) did have DNA checks on several third cousins - and also family trees, so the police could easily spot people with the right amount of relatedness
- They found a man with an exact match on their second guess.
- These DNA sites don't do a complete DNA sequence, but instead use short sections of DNA that have many variants in the community (some of them selected because they have been linked to risk for some disease, or because they are indicative of certain ancestor population groups)
- The more points of comparison, the more likely that you can find a match
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-nucleotide_polymorphism
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2020/06/30/genetic-genealogy-golden-state-killer/?sh=49433be95a6d
« Last Edit: 24/09/2022 12:09:57 by evan_au »
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0

Offline JenniferZigler

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 11
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #4 on: 25/09/2022 20:15:26 »
So much theory and no figure. So, what is the approximate price, pls?
Logged
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21167
  • Activity:
    60.5%
  • Thanked: 61 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #5 on: 25/09/2022 22:20:09 »
Around $300, according to the internet.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline thugtomas

  • First timers
  • *
  • 9
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #6 on: 26/09/2022 14:49:03 »
Principles of Bloodstain Pattern Analysis. To understand how analysts interpret bloodstains, one must first understand the basic properties of blood.
Logged
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31103
  • Activity:
    9.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #7 on: 26/09/2022 21:00:56 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 25/09/2022 22:20:09
Around $300, according to the internet.
Looks like fingerprinting is a lot cheaper.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21167
  • Activity:
    60.5%
  • Thanked: 61 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #8 on: 26/09/2022 22:49:55 »
And quicker. Just a bit less precise in practice: you can reasonably re-identify Joe Bloggs if you have his previous dabs and reason to suspect the new ones are his, but without good specimens you might be hard pushed to distinguish Bloggs from any number of Smiths if you only have partials or smudged prints.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11036
  • Activity:
    9.5%
  • Thanked: 1486 times
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #9 on: 27/09/2022 08:45:49 »
$300 is the cost of a genetic test, if done in bulk on pure samples of significant size.
- However, in forensic work, the perpetrator's DNA is often mixed with that of the victim, or spread thinly on surfaces already contaminated by other people. This requires careful extraction of multiple samples, and complicates the analysis considerably.
- The samples need to be collected, stored, processed and the results analysed in a rigorous and traceable manner, which will be cross-examined in court
- It gets a whole lot more complicated if you don't already have a DNA sample from the perpetrator in your database
- You could guess a forensic cost from thousands of dollars to ten times that amount.

However, unlike fingerprinting, if you have a relative of the perpetrator in the database, you can identify the link, and zero in on the identity of the perpetrator.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Zer0

Offline JenniferZigler

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 11
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #10 on: 27/09/2022 23:23:07 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 25/09/2022 22:20:09
Around $300, according to the internet.
OMG, a considerable one. Thanks for precising*
Logged
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31103
  • Activity:
    9.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #11 on: 28/09/2022 21:44:53 »
This scenario
Quote from: remotemass on 24/09/2022 10:40:11
say that you have a million drops of blood from different individuals from city A and as they arrive one by one at city B,
looks to me like
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/09/2022 22:49:55
you can reasonably re-identify Joe Bloggs if you have his previous dabs and reason to suspect the new ones are his,
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Deecart

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 320
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 15 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: How inexpensive is to identify an individual using a droplet of blood as ID?
« Reply #12 on: 03/10/2022 17:31:25 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 25/09/2022 22:20:09
Around $300, according to the internet.

In UK perhaps (even some covid test was so expensive).
Normaly, actually full genetic sequencing (not only some test) cost around 100 euros.

First sequencing costs 3 billions euros and many years.
2007 cost is 1 million and 3 months.
2013 cost is 1000 euros and some hour.
Today, 100 euros (dollars) and some minutes.
One of the best provider (there are some others in China) : https://www.ultimagenomics.com/


« Last Edit: 03/10/2022 17:35:10 by Deecart »
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: genetic sequencing  / dna testing 
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.456 seconds with 65 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.