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  4. Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
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Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?

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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #120 on: 11/12/2022 05:30:41 »
Quote from: Eternal Student on 10/12/2022 15:22:47
Surely not.   The wires which made the dipole aerials are shiny reflective things.   If you just shine visible light on an aerial then it just reflects off it,  it doesn't interact with the aerial to generate a current in it.   
The antenna in radio frequency is also reflective, which is how the electric current is generated there.  The current is then converted to other type of energy in the receiving unit.
The problem with higher frequency is the antenna becomes impractically short, and the electric charge, i. e.  electron's inertia makes it harder to move, and dampen the vibration.

Quote
Meanwhile, most X-rays or gamma rays can just go straight through without any significant interaction along the way.
That's why even at high frequency, particle model for light is still not accurate. Ordinary particles never pass through other particles regardless their energy magnitude.
« Last Edit: 11/12/2022 05:52:11 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #121 on: 11/12/2022 09:45:22 »
Your proposed rectifier also becomes impractically small as the frequency goes up. As I said before, low microwave frequencies are the highest standard electronics can go.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #122 on: 11/12/2022 09:47:48 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 10/12/2022 23:37:13
I was going to suggest the same, but can’t find an example of optical to microwave redshift. ...
The em radiation emitted by the recombination of electrons and protons in the early universe was a mix of UV and visible. (Up to about 13.6 ev)
So the low energy end of the CMBR spectrum started out as visible light.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #123 on: 11/12/2022 11:10:30 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 11/12/2022 09:45:22
Your proposed rectifier also becomes impractically small as the frequency goes up. As I said before, low microwave frequencies are the highest standard electronics can go.
That's true, for now. Perhaps advancements in nanotechnology can push the limits further.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #124 on: 11/12/2022 14:56:38 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/12/2022 05:30:41
Ordinary particles never pass through other particles regardless their energy magnitude.
I've just been sieving some flour. I wish I had read your post  before wasting my time. Or am I making biscuits with waves and butter?
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #125 on: 11/12/2022 15:56:47 »
Are they quantum or classical bikkies you are making?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #126 on: 11/12/2022 18:06:29 »
Planck-length ultrashortbread.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #127 on: 11/12/2022 21:35:53 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/12/2022 14:56:38
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/12/2022 05:30:41
Ordinary particles never pass through other particles regardless their energy magnitude.
I've just been sieving some flour. I wish I had read your post  before wasting my time. Or am I making biscuits with waves and butter?
Did your flour particles pass through the particles of your sieve?
Or did they pass through the holes?
Have you tried to look closer?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #128 on: 11/12/2022 22:09:42 »
Somehow this video just popped up in my YouTube recommendations.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Sndz8Mm52u8?feature=share
Blowing through glass. I guess everyone here knows how it works.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #129 on: 11/12/2022 22:22:42 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/12/2022 22:09:42
Somehow this video just popped up in my YouTube recommendations.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Sndz8Mm52u8?feature=share
Blowing through glass. I guess everyone here knows how it works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83_effect
Why did you think it was relevant?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #130 on: 11/12/2022 23:00:33 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/12/2022 21:35:53
Did your flour particles pass through the particles of your sieve?
Or did they pass through the holes?
Have you tried to look closer?
Solid state physics has progressed since the days of Democritus. We now know, thanks to some classic experiments just down the road at the Cavendish laboratory, that practically all of every atom is empty space.

X-ray photons do occasionally interact with electrons and very rarely with nuclei, but in diagnostic radiology (where we want maximum interaction with, say, bones) we rely on around 5 - 10% passing unhindered through the animal to form an image. And we do detect them as individual photons, as I mentioned some way back.

If 90% of the flour remained in the sieve, I'd probably complain, but I'm sure you get the picture.
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Offline evan_au

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #131 on: 12/12/2022 08:20:11 »
Quote from: paul cotter
Your proposed rectifier also becomes impractically small as the frequency goes up. As I said before, low microwave frequencies are the highest standard electronics can go.
How does this apply to the several m2 of rectifier on my roof?
It seems to interact quite well with visible and near IR frequencies.
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #132 on: 12/12/2022 08:43:50 »
Good point there, evan-au, I hadn't thought of that. While it is a pn junction, is the mechanism a rectification? I simply don't know, not being well versed in semiconductor theory.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #133 on: 12/12/2022 08:48:05 »
Quote from: evan_au on 12/12/2022 08:20:11
Quote from: paul cotter
Your proposed rectifier also becomes impractically small as the frequency goes up. As I said before, low microwave frequencies are the highest standard electronics can go.
How does this apply to the several m2 of rectifier on my roof?
It seems to interact quite well with visible and near IR frequencies.
Your roof generates DC, rather than AC at multi THz frequencies.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #134 on: 12/12/2022 08:51:07 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/12/2022 23:00:33
We now know, thanks to some classic experiments just down the road at the Cavendish laboratory, that practically all of every atom is empty space.
And yet we know we can't walk through walls.
Particles like those from which we are made, generally do not go through particles such as those from which walls are made.

It's to do with the exclusion principle or electrostatic repulsion- it seems to depend on who you ask.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #135 on: 12/12/2022 10:04:37 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 12/12/2022 08:51:07
And yet we know we can't walk through walls.
Sir Arthur Eddington observed that "The student of physics must become accustomed to having his common sense violated five times before breakfast. If he were to fall through the floor and materialise in the basement, he should not consider it magic, but merely a highly improbable coincidence."

Einstein was more succinct in saying that quantum mechanics is weirder than you can imagine.

For those of a quantitative bent, the deBroglie wavelength of a 70 kg mass is very small indeed, which makes the probability of your being somewhere else of no practical value.  Not that the concept is entirely devoid of engineering applications, as demonstrated by the electrons tunnelling through Evan's pn junction when the sun shines.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #136 on: 12/12/2022 10:19:40 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 11/12/2022 22:22:42
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/12/2022 22:09:42
Somehow this video just popped up in my YouTube recommendations.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Sndz8Mm52u8?feature=share
Blowing through glass. I guess everyone here knows how it works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83_effect
Why did you think it was relevant?
Someone here thought that particles can go pas through other particles.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #137 on: 12/12/2022 12:56:54 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 12/12/2022 10:04:37
Quote from: Bored chemist on 12/12/2022 08:51:07
And yet we know we can't walk through walls.
Sir Arthur Eddington observed that "The student of physics must become accustomed to having his common sense violated five times before breakfast. If he were to fall through the floor and materialise in the basement, he should not consider it magic, but merely a highly improbable coincidence."

Einstein was more succinct in saying that quantum mechanics is weirder than you can imagine.

For those of a quantitative bent, the deBroglie wavelength of a 70 kg mass is very small indeed, which makes the probability of your being somewhere else of no practical value.  Not that the concept is entirely devoid of engineering applications, as demonstrated by the electrons tunnelling through Evan's pn junction when the sun shines.
A "particle" that is everywhere all the time isn't very particulate, is it?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #138 on: 12/12/2022 13:00:25 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 12/12/2022 10:04:37
Sir Arthur Eddington observed that "The student of physics must become accustomed to having his common sense violated five times before breakfast. If he were to fall through the floor and materialise in the basement, he should not consider it magic, but merely a highly improbable coincidence."
It would be more probable to get stuck half way through the floor, or even pass through to somewhere under the surface of the earth.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is there an experiment that shows the oscillation in the E field of light?
« Reply #139 on: 12/12/2022 14:07:46 »
(a) yes
(b) no

The Beer-Lambert law applies when n is large, and there is a plausible "quantum theory of ghosts" where the object particles are light and the barrier N>>n and very dense.
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