The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. General Discussion & Feedback
  3. Just Chat!
  4. The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...

  • 6 Replies
  • 2456 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jimbee (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 242
  • Activity:
    2%
  • Thanked: 21 times
The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« on: 27/01/2023 15:54:46 »
You know I really became enamored with this quote when I first heard it about 20 years ago. My father used to recite it by heart. His version was interesting, because in it, mercy was enthroned in the hearts of men, not kings. I actually like that version better. IAE the following is the standard version.

Yeah, and then I saw the play to "The Merchant of Venice" on video. Lawrence Olivier is really the best. The more recent one that came out in 2004 with Al Pacino, leaves out the quote "how far that little candle throws his beams". That's one the best quotes, isn't it? Anyway in HS we had to study the plays. Romeo and Juliet, Julius Caesar, and the Tempest. But this time I encountered one on my own, which I think was much better.

The quote goes into all the reasons why we should show mercy. Shakespeare supposedly based it on De Clementia a two volume hortatory essay written in AD 55–56 by Seneca the Younger, a Roman Stoic philosopher. Also Portia recited. Since Portia was a woman, she had to attend the trial disguised as a man, to save her friend's life. Also since she is addressing the villain Shylock, they say she only goes into selfish reasons why we should be merciful. I don't think that's true. I think the reasons she gives are timeless and universal.

Please read:

"The quality of mercy is not strain'd,—
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest,—
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown:
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings,—
But mercy is above this sceptred sway,—
It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself,—
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore...
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy,—
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy."

SHAKESPEARE's "The Merchant of Venice" (1596)
[Note. "Strain"d"="constrained, compelled".]
Logged
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« Reply #1 on: 27/01/2023 17:48:47 »
Shylock a villain? All he did was ask for a debt to be repaid to the letter. The essence of a contract is "an agreement enforceable by the courts". He played by the rules and appealed to the court.

Note to Antonio: never bet more than you can afford to lose.

Note to Shylock: get a lawyer to draft your contracts.

Note to everyone: read the small print.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline Petrochemicals

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3629
  • Activity:
    8%
  • Thanked: 182 times
  • forum overlord
Re: The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« Reply #2 on: 30/01/2023 21:59:18 »
Mmm, Shakespeare blowing smoke up the Royal behind. He did much of that. Many of the writings of that time are embellished with sycophantic fawning in the direction of authority, if you did not you could end up like Galileo Galile. Shakespeare was less perilous but far more dependant on goodwill for his lively hood. If Shakespeare had really wanted to annoy the court he could have made it about catholics (of which he was sort of one) getting screwed over by the proddys. But he didn't loose his head. Or get burned at the stake by the mercy of Kings.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_William_Shakespeare

Change shylock being the Jew money lender instead as a dispossessed Catholic and the following has a different reading

Quote from: shylock
Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you ***** us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction

If there is one thing we know of poets, they are ones for an analogy.


***** autocorrected
Logged
For reasons of repetitive antagonism, this user is currently not responding to messages from;
BoredChemist
To ignore someone too, go to your profile settings>modifyprofie>ignore!
 

Offline Jimbee (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 242
  • Activity:
    2%
  • Thanked: 21 times
Re: The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« Reply #3 on: 16/11/2023 12:36:51 »
Sorry to resurrect a zombie thread. But I wanted to add this. Also, when you listen to the speech, it's interesting to see which words she puts emphasis on. They usually show the writer's true intent. For example, Portia emphasizes "pray" in "pray for mercy" in the end, because she is referring the the Lord's Prayer and "give us this day our daily bread". And when she puts emphasis on "twice" in twice blest, she's telling the audience that acts of mercy make you feel good. I recently read that on the internet. And it makes you a better person too. And she put emphasis on "above" in "above this sceptred sway" because in Shakespeare's time, people thought power was the most attractive thing of being a ruler. But mercy will always be above that, because power is fleeting. Mercy is what history always remembers you for.

Here are all the words she puts emphasis on (at the end is a link to the full speech in the 2004 movie with Al Pacino):

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest,-
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown,-
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings,-
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself,-
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy,-
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSg601_b4mo

EDIT: This message board won't let me use accented letters for some reason. So I just bolded the emphasized words. (It also won't let me use apostrophes and dashed either.)
« Last Edit: 16/11/2023 12:52:11 by Jimbee »
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« Reply #4 on: 17/11/2023 00:26:46 »
Quote from: Jimbee on 16/11/2023 12:36:51
Mercy is what history always remembers you for.
Vlad the Impaler, Oliver Cromwell, the Spanish Inquisition, Henry VIII, Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, Samson, Judge Jefferies, Joe McCarthy, Muhammed Ali, Ted Bundy....truly the list of the memorable merciful is endless.   
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline Petrochemicals

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3629
  • Activity:
    8%
  • Thanked: 182 times
  • forum overlord
Re: The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« Reply #5 on: 17/11/2023 01:26:21 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 27/01/2023 17:48:47

Note to everyone: read the small print.
Scroll down and tick the box more like.
Logged
For reasons of repetitive antagonism, this user is currently not responding to messages from;
BoredChemist
To ignore someone too, go to your profile settings>modifyprofie>ignore!
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    72.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: The Timeless Message of Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice'...
« Reply #6 on: 17/11/2023 17:00:22 »
Quote from: Jimbee on 16/11/2023 12:36:51
Mercy is what history always remembers you for.
Not according to Shakespeare:

The evil that men do lives after them
The good is oft interred with their bones

Julius Caesar, Act III scene 2.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.414 seconds with 39 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.