The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. Acceleration of light?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Acceleration of light?

  • 9 Replies
  • 10527 Views
  • 3 Tags

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

This topic contains a post which is marked as Best Answer. Press here if you would like to see it.

Offline Petrochemicals (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3629
  • Activity:
    7.5%
  • Thanked: 182 times
  • forum overlord
Acceleration of light?
« on: 24/04/2023 00:16:47 »
When a photon is ejected from an electron going to a lower energy level, what acceleration does the photon have?
Logged
For reasons of repetitive antagonism, this user is currently not responding to messages from;
BoredChemist
To ignore someone too, go to your profile settings>modifyprofie>ignore!
 



Offline geordief

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 606
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 48 times
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #1 on: 24/04/2023 01:23:07 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 24/04/2023 00:16:47
When a photon is ejected from an electron going to a lower energy level, what acceleration does the photon have?
From what I have read  a photon (in a vacuum) does not accelerate and only moves at the one speed(c)
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Eternal Student

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    67%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #2 on: 24/04/2023 10:36:08 »
It doesn't matter. As the photon has no mass you can either consider it to be "born" at c, or to accelerate instantaneously. This just shows the confusion that can arise from taking mathematical models to be real things.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline Petrochemicals (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3629
  • Activity:
    7.5%
  • Thanked: 182 times
  • forum overlord
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #3 on: 24/04/2023 17:57:35 »
Quote from: geordief on 24/04/2023 01:23:07
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 24/04/2023 00:16:47
When a photon is ejected from an electron going to a lower energy level, what acceleration does the photon have?
From what I have read  a photon (in a vacuum) does not accelerate and only moves at the one speed(c)
As it transitions between mediums?
Logged
For reasons of repetitive antagonism, this user is currently not responding to messages from;
BoredChemist
To ignore someone too, go to your profile settings>modifyprofie>ignore!
 

Offline Petrochemicals (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3629
  • Activity:
    7.5%
  • Thanked: 182 times
  • forum overlord
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #4 on: 24/04/2023 17:59:17 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 24/04/2023 10:36:08
It doesn't matter. As the photon has no mass you can either consider it to be "born" at c, or to accelerate instantaneously. This just shows the confusion that can arise from taking mathematical models to be real things.
Is this another to chalk up to quantum effects, relativity etc? Effectivley we don't really know?
Logged
For reasons of repetitive antagonism, this user is currently not responding to messages from;
BoredChemist
To ignore someone too, go to your profile settings>modifyprofie>ignore!
 



Offline Eternal Student

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1832
  • Activity:
    7.5%
  • Thanked: 470 times
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #5 on: 24/04/2023 19:02:57 »
Hi.

Quote from: Petrochemicals on 24/04/2023 00:16:47
When a photon is ejected from an electron going to a lower energy level, what acceleration does the photon have?
   It's not necessarily the electron that is ejecting it.   The entire atom plays a part.   The energy levels you are speaking of exist only because the electron is part of a system.
   In any inertial frame you choose to use, the photon is always moving at speed c.   There is never any change from a lower speed to a higher speed or vice versa.   The only meaningful acceleration you could assign to the photon is 0 at all times.
    (You could use an accelerated frame but that's not sensible and not worth discussing).

     I'm going to guess that you are imagining the photon as something that was hiding inside the electron and had to be pushed out or accelerated.   Don't do that - it's not a great model or image to have.  The photon wasn't inside the electron and it was never at rest.  It just appeared and was always moving at speed c from the moment of creation.   That doesn't do much to explain why or how some things (like a photon) can just appear.   It's just a useable model which transfers the mystery from one place to another, you just do accept that a photon can suddenly appear.
     A more complete model might use QFT but that's probably not worth discussing here.   

Best Wishes.
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #6 on: 24/04/2023 19:04:24 »
It's always dodgy to talk about " a photon's point of view" but, since they travel at C, time dilation means that time stops.
If time doesn't exist, it's a bit tricky to differentiate position wrt it twice.

What's the acceleration of a water wave?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline geordief

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 606
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 48 times
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #7 on: 24/04/2023 22:26:21 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 24/04/2023 17:57:35
Quote from: geordief on 24/04/2023 01:23:07
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 24/04/2023 00:16:47
When a photon is ejected from an electron going to a lower energy level, what acceleration does the photon have?
From what I have read  a photon (in a vacuum) does not accelerate and only moves at the one speed(c)
As it transitions between mediums?
I will defer to others here to answer that .....
Logged
 

Marked as best answer by Petrochemicals on 25/04/2023 22:10:44

Offline Eternal Student

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1832
  • Activity:
    7.5%
  • Thanked: 470 times
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #8 on: 25/04/2023 03:38:03 »
Hi.

I completely missed the bit about transitions to different mediums, well spotted @geordief .

Here's a pleasant Physics expert talking about why or how light slows down in glass for a YouTube video produced by Sixty Symbols,  it lasts about 15 minutes  and you might as well listen to him rather than read some waffle I produce.


So here's 4 different answers, which are are more or less bullet points summarising that video as I saw it:

 1.   Light can travel more slowly in different mediums but photons don't.   Don't ask, live with it. 
Be aware that many of the old and popular explanations are wrong.

 2.   A photon is a particle that is only readily identified in a vaccum.   Inside a dense medium which is some regular lattice structure of atoms, what you will actually have is a different particle (sometimes called a quasiparticle) which is known as a "polariton".   These polaritons travel at less than the speed of light.
     So the photon wasn't accelerated or ever travelling at less than the speed c,   instead it was just changed into a polariton once inside the dense medium.

  3.  The photon is a quantum mechanical object.   It can take all possible paths through the medium and some of those involve an interaction with other QM objects like electrons and nucleons that are present in the dense medium.  The sum of all the possible paths is such that the overall wave description looks like a photon that has been delayed (travelling at less than c).
     There are similarities between the Quantum Mechanical model and the explanation using classical electromagnetic waves.  With the classical model, an e-m wave passing close to an atom will cause charged particles like the electrons of the atom to oscillate.  However, oscillating electrons will produce their own electromagnetic waves.   So these will interfere with the main wave that was passing through.   (For the QM model, we have that one photon takes mutiple paths so it is all the wave you need on its own and also the interactions with electrons are "like" the classical interaction in some broad sense).

4.   I'm not actually certain I can really articulate a 4th answer.   I'm just fairly sure you could find one if you tried.

Best Wishes.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: geordief, Petrochemicals



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    67%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Acceleration of light?
« Reply #9 on: 25/04/2023 17:13:19 »
Never a good idea to fixate on a photon as a particle nor electromagnetic radiation as a wave. These are not "things" but convenient models of what happens.

When an electron (definitely a thing - it has mass) accelerates, electromagnetic energy has to come from or go to somewhere. If the acceleration is a change in quantum state, the energy will be quantised.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: light  / photon  / acceleration 
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 1.064 seconds with 49 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.