[alancalverd]

Starvation wasn't a problem in Gaza before 7 October.

[Petrochemicals]

Can we rename this thread then, ?the link between the political socioeconomic outlook of the levant region and the future outlook encompassing plans of resolution and the global warming? "

[acsinuk (OP)]

The link between global warming and world population increase is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Looking for scape goat politicians, UN/charities, Security council etc to blame is unproductive; we need everyone to understand the need to keep family sizes small so that our children will receive a wealthy inheritance.
Religious leaders the Pope ,Archbishops, Chief Priests, Imams need to agree together what is the best way forward to save the whole world from the huge suffering caused by refugee crisises.

[alancalverd]

Don't confuse overpopulation, which may lead to slow, chronic, and permanent mass migration, with conflict, which produces short-term and hopefully (e.g. Ukraine, Gaza) temporary, limited numbers of refugees.

Nature is inexorable, politics can be reversed by revolution or conquest. 

[acsinuk (OP)]

But over population is increasing CO2 emissions and at same time much unrest in the countries with low water resources.
Looking at the medium or average age of population on third from right column on worldometers site    https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/  we can immediately see that those countries with an average age of 25 or less are unstable and if in a desert area likely to be living in refugee camps with no escape from poverty.

[alancalverd]

if in a desert area likely to be living in refugee camps

Huge difference between nomads and refugees.

Saami herders don't experience poverty until they settle in permanent housing and have to pay for water, home repairs, etc instead of finding water and fixing their tents with reindeer hide.

The poorest people in Britain are not refugees (who get government grants) but natives who can't find work, or ex-subpostmasters who have been swindled and prosecuted by Post Office Ltd.

[Bored chemist]

Looking at the medium or average age of population on third from right column on worldometers site    https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/  we can immediately see that those countries with an average age of 25 or less are unstable and if in a desert area likely to be living in refugee camps with no escape from poverty.

How do you distinguish cause from effect?
Are they poor because they have a lot of kids and kids don't earn money, or do they have a lot of youngsters because the infant mortality is high and the only way to ensure that the population is stable, is to ensure that lots of babies are born?
The latter is particularly likely if there's no "welfare state" and your only pension is hoping your kids look after you when you are old.

[alancalverd]

Population stability is not a rational goal. Religious perverts like the idea of increasing their flock of victims, but common sense would limit family size to the number that can be fed from the land they occupy.

The problem with "median age" is that it doesn't tell us much about longevity unless we factor in fertility rate. If you multiply the two together through the worldometer table, you get a fairly constant value around  70 to 80. From this we might conclude that current life expectancy doesn't vary a great deal but people in the poorest countries are just making more babies.

[acsinuk (OP)]

Increases in global warming is linked to an increase in world population so what can we do it limit the increase?
Over population leads to fighting over water resources in desert areas in the Sahara which looks religious but is not.
If the desert population can only be stabilised then the water can be shared amicably.
If overpopulation increases then un self sustainable refugee camps spring up but who can help them help themselves??   

[alancalverd]

Just how many people actually live in the Sahara?

Chart and table of Western Sahara population density from 1950 to 2024. United Nations projections are also included through the year 2100.
The current population density of Western Sahara in 2024 is 0.00 people per square kilometer, a NAN% decline from 2023.
The population density of Western Sahara in 2023 was 0.00 people per square kilometer, a NAN% decline from 2022.
The population density of Western Sahara in 2022 was 0.00 people per square kilometer, a NAN% decline from 2021.
The population density of Western Sahara in 2021 was 0.00 people per square kilometer, a NAN% decline from 2020.

So who are these non-people fighting, for control of a nonexistent resource?

[acsinuk (OP)]

Alan, western Sahara would be ideal place for the population of Gaza to develop a self sufficient economy.
Refugee camps MUST be only temporary one year accommodations.  We must return refugees to their land or to somewhere else as permanent camps can never be self sufficient meaning the displaced people will remain destitute for ever.
Look at Cox Bazaar as an example , how can the refugees there ever be self sufficient and look at the birth rate and utter helplessness of its teenagers to find work.  No wonder there is so much unrest in refugee camps. 
Refugee camps must be dismantled after a year in use and not allowed to fester IMHO

[alancalverd]

Alan, western Sahara would be ideal place for the population of Gaza to develop a self sufficient economy.

Then why does practically nobody live there now?
You can't be selfsufficient without water.
The population of Gaza could live in Gaza (as they have done for many years) if they got rid of the parasitic scum whose sole aim in life is to destroy Israel and leech off the Gazains. 

[Bored chemist]

Alan, western Sahara would be ideal place for the population of Gaza to develop a self sufficient economy.

I know Alan already said this but  I think it's worth repeating.

If you think a desert is an ideal place for people to live, then you are an idiot.
People need water.

[acsinuk (OP)]

Well, they could start by drilling several artesian wells because the exiled people will need to become self sufficient as quickly as possible.
My concern is that refugee camps used to be for people whose crops had failed due to drought or other natural causes and UN and WHO would assist with humanitarian aid for one season or so to save lives; a sort of holding operation. 
But people displaced forcibly by war are really in a prisoner of war camp situation and the victors should offer them citizenship if they agree to obey their laws or exile them to some far away place like the western Sahara. 

[alancalverd]

Wrong. Refugees a people who are running away from something - the clue is in the name. The UN charter requires that they be accommodated in the first safe country they reach. They may not be forcibly transferred to a third country, nor is any third country obliged to accept them.

Prisoners of war are  legitimate uniformed combatants who have surrendered and been taken prisoner. They are not  free to move, nor encouraged by their captors to do so, and must be treated by their captors according to the Geneva Convention.

Modern warfare creates far more displaced civilians and civilian casualties than military casualties. 

Justice requires that, as in legal proceedings, the liability for reparation should lie with the side that fired the first shot. The problem is that if the aggressor loses the fight, he probably doesn't have the wherewithal to compensate the civilian victims. It is therefore in the interests of all civilians to persuade their government not to start a fight. At best, you will end up having to pay the losers, and at worst you will be the losers with no compensation due.

An artesian well is a well that brings groundwater to the surface without pumping because it is under pressure within a body of rock and/or sediment known as an aquifer.

Is there such an aquifer beneath the Sahara?  If so, why has nobody exploited it before?

[Bored chemist]

The UN charter requires that they be accommodated in the first safe country they reach.

No.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/

The charter says they should accommodated in the first safe country where they ask for asylum.

But I share your doubts that you can drill an artesian well in the desert. They are driven by rain, and there isn't any.
There is an aquifer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubian_Sandstone_Aquifer_System
But it's deep.

[alancalverd]

The charter says they should accommodated in the first safe country where they ask for asylum.

Wrong. That would mean that asylum must always be granted in the refugee's destination of choice, which is clearly not the case. Simple but subtle difference: a refugee is running away from something, an asylum seeker is asking for protection by his destination country.

The Ukrainian family currently living on my property are refugees. They are not seeking asylum from Ukraine, but temporary safe accommodation whilst their friends and relatives of military age get on with defending their territory without having to worry about potential civilian casualties.

[Petrochemicals]

Refugees can be internally displaced, within the same country. They can also quite easily return home once the battle front passes through and usually hope to do so, they are not necesarrily the targets of hostile action.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara

[Bored chemist]

a refugee is running away from something

Like Russian tanks + bombs.
An asylum is a place of safety.
Well done for providing one.

"Refugee
The definition of a refugee according to the 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is:

?A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.?"

And
"In the UK, a person becomes a refugee when government agrees that an individual who has applied for asylum meets the definition in the Refugee Convention they will ?recognise? that person as a refugee and issue them with refugee status documentation.

Usually refugees in the UK are given five years leave to remain as a refugee. They must then apply for further leave, although their status as a refugee is not limited to five years."

From
https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/the-truth-about-asylum/

People seeking asylum must be accommodated for long enough to find out if their claim is legitimate.
(Rather than, for example, flown to Rwanda)

[paul cotter]

Alan, I salute your altruism.