[alancalverd]

An asylum is a place of safety.

Legally, it's more. A foxhole a place of safety, a military camp is a place of asylum.

Interestingly, my guests are not in fear of

being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion,

but of being subject to indiscriminate Russian bombing and shellfire whilst consuming materiel and medical resources that could be of use to the Ukrainian military.

Fortunately the UK government takes a broader interpretation of refugee status than the UN. These good folk will almost certainly seek to extent their residence and work permits until Putin's scum is cleared from Ukrainian soil but  they aren't seeking asylum and have every intention of returning home and restoring civilisation ASAP.

[acsinuk (OP)]

Alan, Good point about Ukraine but the global climate change is caused by over population and refugee camps need to become self sufficient.  Look at the situation in Yemen.     https://shelterbox.org/disasters-explained/the-yemen-crisis-explained/#:~:text=Yemen%20is%20one%20of%20the,we%20have%20supported%20vulnerable%20communities..
32 million people of which 21 million need humanitarian aid and 4.5 million have been displaced, many for second or third time since 2015.
The situation is getting worse all the time as the population explodes and somehow we need to stop it, as residents of these camps need to have the God given right to work and live a self sufficient independent life.or they will contiue to rebel.

[alancalverd]

I don't think climate change is caused by overpopulation, and nor do the Powers that Be. If the current religion (you can hardly call it science) is to be believed, the most increasingly populous nations are those with the lowest per capita carbon emissions and therefore the least sinful.

It is obvious that as the climate changes, some areas will become unsustainable by force of nature rather than theocratic incompetence and corruption, and the only way to prevent mass starvation is to reduce the mass.

 

residents of these camps need to have the God given right to work and live a self sufficient independent life.or they will continue to rebel.

Time to grow up and face facts, my friend. There is no god, and the only rights anyone has are those given by others. The problem is that every time you grant someone a right, you impose a duty on someone else, usually without consulting him.

[Petrochemicals]

 Time to grow up and face facts, my friend. There is no god, and the only rights anyone has are those given by others. The problem is that every time you grant someone a right, you impose a duty on someone else, usually without consulting him.

Robbing peter to pay paul, or is that back to religion again?

Fortunately the UK government takes a broader interpretation of refugee status than the UN

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war or violence.

The un doesnt seem to register internal refugees, maybe because it is international.

[Bored chemist]

refugee camps need to become self sufficient. 

How many towns are self- sufficient?
How many countries?
Or households?

Yet you somehow think that a group of displaced people- in shock and devastated- are somehow going to "have to" do it.

Did you think that through?

[acsinuk (OP)]

Yes, I have certainly thought it through.  The problem with refugees and refugee camps is they are exploding the problem by having too many children.
Yemen, Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Sudan and Sahara plus all other refugee camps caused by conflicts like Gaza and Cox's Bazaar need to reduce family sizes to 2 kids only so that they can catch up with western style of living and become self sufficient.
Military solutions are unnecessary; what we need is everyone to agree to limit family size to save the planet.

[alancalverd]

The problem with refugees and refugee camps is they are exploding the problem by having too many children.

What else is there to do?

The total number of refugees in the world is about 20,000,000. There are 22,000,000 settled citizens in Mexico City. The global population excess has very little to do with refugees and an awful lot to do with folk of all sorts breeding beyond their capacity to support their offspring.

[acsinuk (OP)]

Alan,
Agreed that it is "an awful lot to do with folk of all sorts breeding beyond their capacity to support their offspring."
But the worst offenders appear to be refugee camps fed by UNHCR and other charities who are surely encouraging the problem of overpopulation rather than solving it
26 million in 2022 by now probably 30 million with extra 2 million from Gaza see link below. 

https://www.concern.org.uk/news/these-12-countries-hosted-most-refugees-2022?https://www.concern.org.uk/news/these-12-countries-hosted-most-refugees-2022&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-62tBhDSARIsAO7twbadIf3oJbXP0YwHu-VyDEzOSMOCcxCNlRkY2w7g4DciQL3i-odt6esaAr0mEALw_wcB

Some unscrupulous African states are even offering the UN refugees camps  because they want the free UNCHR food which they have not understood  will wreck their own economies and force their own farmers to become destitute and potential refugees.. .

[Bored chemist]

UNHCR and other charities who are surely encouraging the problem of overpopulation rather than solving it

Solving population problems is not the job of refugee camps.

[alancalverd]

But the worst offenders appear to be refugee camps fed by UNHCR and other charities who are surely encouraging the problem of overpopulation rather than solving it
26 million in 2022 by now probably 30 million with extra 2 million from Gaza see link below. 

Serious nonsequitur!

Moving people from their home to a refugee camp does not increase the number of people. There are plenty of good textbooks on human reproduction, and AFAIK none of them suggests that bombing a house results in the occupants becoming pregnant.

[acsinuk (OP)]

Moving people from their homes in the bush or desert to a refugee camp would not occur if their population remains nearly constant.
The problem is the refugee camps give free food and medical aid which undermines their traditional self sustaining farming economies in the bush as no point in going home to grow maize and vegetables as you cannot sell the surplus to buy other things.
Look at  again     https://www.concern.org.uk/news/these-12-countries-hosted-most-refugees-2022? 
Syria has 26 million people average age 22 of whom 6 million or more are now refugees in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and Iran/Iraq with no way of self sustaining themselves overseas or at home in Syria..
Yemen's  34 million we have already discussed as a disaster which is getting bigger as average age is only 19 and refugees are fleeing mostly over the Red Sea.
We must find a way of controlling population expansion in refugee camps everywhere!!   NOW 

[Bored chemist]

The problem is the refugee camps give free food and medical aid

The problem is typically war or something from which people, understandably, seek refuge.

What happens after they leave their homes is a bit beside the point.

We must find a way of controlling population expansion in refugee camps everywhere!

We could stop selling weapons...

[alancalverd]

Moving people from their homes in the bush or desert to a refugee camp would not occur if their population remains nearly constant.

Syria has 26 million people average age 22 of whom 6 million or more are now refugees in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and Iran/Iraq with no way of self sustaining themselves overseas or at home in Syria..

The first people to leave a war zone  are not usually bush or desert dwellers. Those with open eyes and ears will have noticed that the first refugees from almost any trouble spot to appear on TV are always academics, professionals and businessmen with perfect English and good credit ratings.

[acsinuk (OP)]

The clever people with money will arrange to move quickly but what about the poor women and children in the refugee camps.
Look at the   https://www.unhcr.org/sites/default/files/legacy-pdf/4ef9c83f9.pdf    world map of where more than 50% of women are dependant on refugee food aid marked in green.
These 50% ladies are selling on the free food aid that UNHCR are providing so their countries  self sufficiency farming can no longer compete. Worse still they are producing many children as they cannot afford contraceptives thus increasing population expansion which is causing global warming.
Even worse the parents are naturally totally dis-satisfied with live in the camps and tell their children that the rich people and politicians are stealing all their national resources.  In a decade when theses kids grow up they heed their parents words and decide that enough is enough and join in camp gangs to roam about stealing things from rich people or selling illegal drugs and who can blame them as their is no way of finding work inside the camp.  In the case of Gaza they have even ganged up to fight the Israelites but in reality any other job would have been acceptable if it had been available at age 18.
 This desperate situation arises a decade after the camp's opened with gangs challenging their government for not developing their economy quickly enough and civil unrest causes riots and possibly genocide like in Columbia and now Argentina and Ecuador.  Also Chile, Mexico etc. 
The problem can only be solved by closing refugee camps within a decade and somehow reducing the number of children in them possibly by treating the free food with a contraceptive thus revitalising their agricultural sectors and creating work.

[alancalverd]

The clever people with money will arrange to move quickly but what about the poor women and children in the refugee camps.

You aren't a refugee until you have moved. Your question is therefore an oxymoron.

What happens next is indeed a matter of concern, and much wider than the longterm prospects of people in refugee camps. The question is what can be done to alleviate poverty and misery wherever they occur, and part of the answer is, surely, to persuade people not to make babies that they have no prospect of feeding. That would at least contain the size of the problem (inevitable in the case of climate change)  and permit a rational longterm approach to a solution.

But it is in the commercial interests of many parasites to have a growing population of people with a grievance. You can sell them weapons and use their poverty as an excuse to increase the price of oil. Even better if they are conveniently not located in your actual territory (nobody wants smelly beggars on the palace highway) but a thousand miles away and bound by some ridiculous notion of common superstition or ancestry.

But compulsory medication is redolent of the fascist methods of those very parasites. Far better to educate and empower  women than to try to clear up the evergrowing mess caused by not doing so.

[Bored chemist]

Those with open eyes and ears will have noticed that the first refugees from almost any trouble spot to appear on TV are always academics, professionals and businessmen with perfect English and good credit ratings.

So... the ones who can afford air tickets get out first.
Astounding!
And I suspect that the first ones of French TV speak perfect French.
Because there wouldn't be any point to interviewing someone who didn't understand your questions and could only reply in a language your viewers would not understand.

[Bored chemist]

These 50% ladies are selling on the free food aid that UNHCR are providing

Then what are they eating?
Seriously, where did you get that idea from?

[Bored chemist]

These 50% ladies are selling on the free food aid that UNHCR are providing

Then what are they eating?
Seriously, where did you get that idea from?

[alancalverd]

Because there wouldn't be any point to interviewing someone who didn't understand your questions and could only reply in a language your viewers would not understand.

One day, someone will invent interpreters and subtitles. They already exist on my planet.

[acsinuk (OP)]

No excuses about interpreters then; but the real problem is global warming caused by population expansion that has resulted in a  refugee explosion meaning millions of disgruntled people will have to suffer living in poverty in tented make shift camps.
It would be better if the pharmaceutical industry rather than developing flu vaccines and trying to eliminate the common cold could concentrate  their research into developing a user friendly contraceptive to treat free food aid with.   
This would be beneficial to the whole world and would allow the recipients to only have children when they could afford to look after them properly.