[alancalverd]

....whilst parasitic religious and political "leaders"  oppose contraception and women's rights in general, demand that their minions produce more soldiers for whatever just cause they have invented, and express their god's concern about falling birthrates.

The key phrase in screenwriting and teaching is "show, don't tell". The time is ripe for the UK to do just that: demonstrate the advantages of moving towards sustainable population density. Once these islands have become a showpiece of a desirable and resilient standard of living resulting from literally doing nothing, others will follow.

[acsinuk (OP)]

We all agree that anyone who condemns women's rights and the use of contraceptives is in serious error, because global overpopulation has already caused the present climate change.
The immediate problem is the poor refugees living in camps, surviving on food aid with no hope for the future.  They blame foreign warlords for stealing their land without realising it is their own overpopulation that has caused the problem.
No one wants refugees but they have the right to live and work towards self sufficiency and to enhance Gods creation in their area, while remaining at peace with their neighbours.
 

[alancalverd]

No one wants refugees

Not entirely true.
Anyone who watches TV news will have seen that the first people to leave a country that is sinking into theocracy and dictatorship, or under threat from invading scum, are educated professionals with perfect English and highly desirable as employees or entrepreneurs anywhere - particularly in the UK where education and articulacy are no longer in the curriculum.   

[acsinuk (OP)]

That OK for the 1% clever people but what about the 99% normal folk?
Yes, UK would have a negative population growth if it were not for refugees from ex colonies or war zones like Gaza.
In Gaza we can see that hard line extremist Israelites are fighting with fundamentalist Moslems which is killing civilians unnecessarily.  Why can't the 2 sides adopt a Christian attitude and feed your enemy if he is hungry?? 
Just imagine the hostages hear shooting outside and a Hamas fighter enters the prison with orders to kill them but has compassion on them and converts to Christianity and says sorry.
That man has saves his own life as well as the hostages who will witness the change and bring him back to Israel with them as a hero.   

[alancalverd]

Why can't the 2 sides adopt a Christian attitude

As they have done for hundreds of years in Northern Ireland. Or were you thinking of the Inquisition the Crusades, or the Conquistadores?

Conversion my arse.

Religion, of any sort, is an excuse to do something that would otherwise be considered aberrant or immoral.

[alancalverd]

In Gaza we can see that hard line extremist Israelites are fighting with fundamentalist Moslems which is killing civilians unnecessarily.

To take this point by point:

The Israelites  were a group of Semitic-speaking tribes in the ancient Near East who, during the Iron Age, inhabited a part of Canaan.

(Wikipedia). Not many left today.

Defending your country by hot pursuit of the enemy who has sworn to exterminate you, isn't "extremism" in my book. Nor  would most folk call the Ukraine army "extremist".

If you elect genocidal scum, allow them to govern you, and protect them by permitting the location of offensive assets in civilian buildings, you can expect any reprisals to demolish those buildings.

Collateral civilian casualties are very much the norm in modern warfare. Did you (or your parents) weep for the citizens of Hamburg, Dresden, Cologne, Stuttgart, or those downstream of the Ruhr dams? Not all were members of the Nazi elite, nor even of the party, but they happened to be in the way when the time came to eliminate the current threat to civilisation.

The moral is: don't elect filth to high office, and don't expect sympathy if you do.

[Petrochemicals]

As for the "burden on the health service" it must be remembered that a substantial part of the demand is for perinatal and child health services, and if each woman only produced one child (a) the return of women to the fulltime workforce would increase and (b) there would be less demand for nursery workers, teachers, lecturers. college cooks.....

Tax burden in the uk is the highest in 70 years apparently. We have had corona and a dire economy for over a decade but the national debt is no where near 1940s levels. In the 1940s time the uk managed to launch the nhs. Births were also significantly higher than they are now.

There must be a problem somewhere, maybe the economy boomed after the war.

[alancalverd]

Previously, industries were either private (run for profit) or public (funded by taxes). Nowadays, a lot of tax goes to subsidising (i.e.paying bonuses to) nominally private companies who run what used to be public utilities, taking over privatised industries that have actually failed, or simply giving money  to the families and  friends of Conservative members of parliament.

I doubt that governments of any color in the 1940s and 50s would have paid billions for a "track and trace" scam that achieved nothing, or compensation to a company with no ships for being excluded from a tender to supply cross-channel ferries. And don't forget 100,000,000,000 pounds spent to date on consultancies and land purchases for a railway line that doesn't quite connect London to Birmingham. Nor would more rational administrations have taxed the electorate to lend money to students who will never repay the debt they incurred for wasting three years of their lives. And if I recall correctly, anyone arriving in the 1940s in a rubber boat without valid paperwork would have been shot, not accommodated in a hotel at the taxpayer's expense.

[Petrochemicals]

Or it could be seen that 1950s higher birthrate and lower life expectancy meant that the fiscal situation was more stacked in a ratio towards providence. Lots of births, there was a "baby boom" as I am frequently reminded of by members of the generation yet the health care system did not collapse.

I understand that there has been massive mismanagement even before the corona thing by the uk government, it must be totalling a far few billion by now. I have a feeling that the "Rawanda plan" failure is part of the reason we have an election, failure of a flagship programme at a cost of who knows would not be the best lead in to an autumn election.

[Bored chemist]

the national debt is no where near 1940s levels.

The Tories have consistently worked to raise it
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/11/27/the-tories-created-two-thirds-of-the-uks-national-debt/

While claiming they are the party of "sound financial management."

[alancalverd]

I have a feeling that the "Rawanda plan" failure is part of the reason we have an election, failure of a flagship programme at a cost of who knows would not be the best lead in to an autumn election.

It was never a serious proposition. There are around 120,000 potential deportees currently in the UK and about 1000 "irregular migrants" arriving each week. Exporting them to anywhere requires an operation on the scale of D-Day and the subsequent troop buildup in 1944, against an occupying force of half the legal profession and every opposition MP. That's a job for a navy, not an airline, and Rwanda doesn't have a coastline..   

But we could draft everyone who arrives without permission into an army, thus solving two problems at once. It's an attractive proposition for a genuine refugee - an opportunity to defend your country of choice against the scum who were persecuting you. A secure, respected career with three meals a day for any economic migrant - much better than falling into slavery. And the UK gets a massive army who will be pleased to live in barracks instead of hotels.

[Petrochemicals]

It was never a serious proposition. There are around 120,000 potential deportees currently in the UK and about 1000 "irregular migrants" arriving each week. Exporting them to anywhere requires an operation on the scale of D-Day and the subsequent troop buildup in 1944, against an occupying force of half the legal profession and every opposition MP. That's a job for a navy, not an airline, and Rwanda doesn't have a

Wendo have a legal requirement for refugee applications. The "small boats" is just a diversion from the current levels of migration. The fact that the conservatives have always loved immigration, they are cheap, drive down wages, no training required and do not argue unlike the naturalised citizens, just as long as the business doesnt have to incur the wage cost of providing schools health care, or the immigrant labour doesnt come and live by them in the form of hiding behind greenbelt legislation.

[alancalverd]

Wendo have a legal requirement for refugee applications.

Only for genuine refugees. The UN requirement is that refugees must be accommodated in the first safe country they reach. So nobody arriving via western Europe has any right to be considered a refugee.

[Bored chemist]

The UN requirement is that refugees must be accommodated in the first safe country they reach.

I expected you to know better than that Alan.

There is nothing in international law to say that refugees must claim asylum in the first country they reach.
From
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees

There is no legal requirement for a refugee to claim asylum in any particular country
Neither the 1951 Refugee Convention nor EU law requires a refugee to claim asylum in one country rather than another.

There is no rule requiring refugees to claim in the first safe country in which they arrive.

[Bored chemist]

But we could draft everyone who arrives without permission into an army,

If they are refugees, we granted them permission when we signed up to the convention on refugees.

The MoD recognises that a conscript army (even if we are foolish enough to assume that all refugees are combat-fit adults) is a bloody stupid idea.
They said so in a written answer, shortly before Sunak announced his "policy", secure in the  knowledge that he would never have to implement it.

[Bored chemist]

The fact that the conservatives have always loved immigration, they are cheap, drive down wages, no training required and do not argue unlike the naturalised citizens, just as long as the business doesnt have to incur the wage cost of providing schools health care, or the immigrant labour doesnt come and live by them in the form of hiding behind greenbelt legislation.

This is a rare example of PC being a lot closer to correct than Alan.

[alancalverd]

There is no rule requiring refugees to claim in the first safe country in which they arrive.

Which is why I didn't suggest it. The rule is that they must be accommodated in the first safe country. They can then set about claiming asylum or seeking regular immigration wherever they wish. It is fairly obvious that anyone  arriving in the UK via western Europe is not fleeing from persecution there.

There is a requirement that the "first safe country" must provide refugees with appropriate travel documents. So anyone arriving here from Europe without documentation either hasn't claimed refugee status en route, or has been denied status and documentation under the listed exemptions of the UN Charter.

[Petrochemicals]

Wendo have a legal requirement for refugee applications.

Only for genuine refugees.

Yep, but the boats are not a major component of immigration in the uk, that narrow strip of water has a remarkable effect on everyone.

 Believe it or not chinese are making a substantial component of the mexican border crossing, complete with wheeled suitcases, iphones and fashionable clothing, but they destroy their passports and china just ignores any US attempt at repatriation.

[alancalverd]

that narrow strip of water has a remarkable effect on everyone.

Including huge profits for criminals and death for their victims.

[Bored chemist]

The rule is that they must be accommodated in the first safe country.

Yes and no.The first country in which they seek asylum.

The country isn't allowed to turn them down, but that's not the same as saying they have to ask the first country.

How do you think they got to France/ Germany/ wherever?
Did they teleport in from their original home country?