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  4. What is non-returning twin paradox?
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What is non-returning twin paradox?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #100 on: 07/10/2023 22:47:17 »
Quote from: Origin on 07/10/2023 15:06:42
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/10/2023 15:13:00
Is it from another thread?
No.
Which post is it?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #101 on: 08/10/2023 21:48:29 »
The videos from Stanford are longer, but they also say that you haven't even described the problem yet until it's analyzed from traveling twin's perspective, let alone providing a possible solution.



« Last Edit: 12/10/2023 13:43:00 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #102 on: 12/10/2023 14:48:47 »
Quote from: pzkpfw on 29/09/2023 04:41:31
You are right (in short) that the explanation of the (not) paradox is that the scenario is not symmetrical, the reason for that being one observer remaining in a single frame, and the other not. *
In the scenario here, all travelling twins accelerate exactly once. They also decelerate exactly once.
The trajectories of twins B, C, and D have translational symmetry.
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Offline pzkpfw

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #103 on: 12/10/2023 22:22:33 »
That's an amazingly dishonest trimming of my post, which completely removes the point.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #104 on: 13/10/2023 14:29:03 »
Quote from: pzkpfw on 12/10/2023 22:22:33
That's an amazingly dishonest trimming of my post, which completely removes the point.
You should read the title of this thread.
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Offline pzkpfw

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #105 on: 13/10/2023 21:58:47 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/10/2023 14:29:03
Quote from: pzkpfw on 12/10/2023 22:22:33
That's an amazingly dishonest trimming of my post, which completely removes the point.
You should read the title of this thread.

You should read the posts in the thread. (Including your own!)
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #106 on: 14/10/2023 06:07:31 »
Quote from: pzkpfw on 13/10/2023 21:58:47
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/10/2023 14:29:03
Quote from: pzkpfw on 12/10/2023 22:22:33
That's an amazingly dishonest trimming of my post, which completely removes the point.
You should read the title of this thread.

You should read the posts in the thread. (Including your own!)

What's the point you tried to make in your post?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #107 on: 21/10/2023 10:45:37 »
Here's the diagram in the perspective of stationary earth, midway, or Alpha Centauri.

The diagram was made in Power point.
The yellow square is 10x10 cm, which represent 10 years in vertical axis, and 10 light years in horizontal axis.
Red line represents light trajectory.

* stationary.png (22.05 kB, 773x798 - viewed 297 times.)
« Last Edit: 21/10/2023 10:48:44 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #108 on: 21/10/2023 10:53:12 »
The next diagram will describe the same events in A's perspective. It's done by rotating time, as explained in the video below.
The Twins Paradox Primer (Rotating TIME!)
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #109 on: 21/10/2023 10:54:13 »
Here's the result.

The size of the yellow square is 9.165 cm, which represents the A's travel time in his own frame of reference, which is around 9.165 years.
Note that A meets D at the midway point at half way of his journey. A also arrive at Alpha Centauri at the same time as B.

* A.png (31.92 kB, 927x746 - viewed 173 times.)
« Last Edit: 21/10/2023 11:00:29 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #110 on: 21/10/2023 13:22:48 »
Here are the perspective of B, C, and D while they are travelling. The size of yellow squares are 3x3 cm, representing 3 years and 3 light years.






* B.png (17.16 kB, 396x448 - viewed 184 times.)

* C.png (17.74 kB, 515x452 - viewed 194 times.)

* D.png (17.18 kB, 441x430 - viewed 178 times.)
« Last Edit: 21/10/2023 13:28:41 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #111 on: 24/10/2023 16:53:15 »
Note that diagrams with rotated time preserve the Orthogonality of space-time axes of the earth and Alpha Centauri frame (see the midway arrow and dashed grey line connecting earth and Alpha Centauri). The closer the speed of travelling twin to the speed of light, the space-time axes of the stationary frame get closer to the light cone in the rotated space-time diagram.
« Last Edit: 26/10/2023 03:24:57 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #112 on: 27/10/2023 06:32:27 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/10/2023 10:54:13
Here's the result.

The size of the yellow square is 9.165 cm, which represents the A's travel time in his own frame of reference, which is around 9.165 years.
Note that A meets D at the midway point at half way of his journey. A also arrive at Alpha Centauri at the same time as B.
According to A, both B and C switch their reference frame once, while D switchs twice. But they must have the same age, due to symmetry.
It means that each frame switch of D only produces half amount of age difference, compared to each frame switch of B or C. It also means that the age difference depends on the distance between the subject and the switching frame observer.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #113 on: 27/10/2023 12:41:25 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/10/2023 13:22:48



During the launch, twin B lit up a powerful flash light going everywhere spherically. According to  B, the light will get to Alpha Centauri after twin C arrives there, but before twin D arrives there.
But according to observer on Alpha Centauri, the flash light will not be received before both C and D have arrived.
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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #114 on: 27/10/2023 12:44:34 »
So have you figured out it is not really a paradox?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #115 on: 27/10/2023 13:28:51 »
Quote from: Origin on 27/10/2023 12:44:34
So have you figured out it is not really a paradox?
I don't think so. Have you?
If you are referring to my latest post, then at least one of the observers must be false. Do you know which one? Why is it?
« Last Edit: 27/10/2023 13:31:43 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #116 on: 27/10/2023 13:33:51 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/10/2023 13:28:51
If you are referring to my latest post, then at least one of the observers must be false. Do you know which one? Why is it?
I'm not referring to any post in particular, I was just wondering if you have figured out that there is not really a paradox.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #117 on: 27/10/2023 13:54:28 »
Quote from: Origin on 27/10/2023 13:33:51
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/10/2023 13:28:51
If you are referring to my latest post, then at least one of the observers must be false. Do you know which one? Why is it?
I'm not referring to any post in particular, I was just wondering if you have figured out that there is not really a paradox.
Did you take it for a reason?
Or did you take it by faith?
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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #118 on: 27/10/2023 23:50:03 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/10/2023 13:54:28
Did you take it for a reason?
Or did you take it by faith?
You are not very good at answering questions.  I will assume you have not come to the conclusion that there is no real paradox. 
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What is non-returning twin paradox?
« Reply #119 on: 28/10/2023 04:21:03 »
Quote from: Origin on 27/10/2023 23:50:03
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/10/2023 13:54:28
Did you take it for a reason?
Or did you take it by faith?
You are not very good at answering questions.  I will assume you have not come to the conclusion that there is no real paradox. 
You're too good at answering questions. You already knew the answer even before the question was properly described yet.
Unfortunately, you can't explain how you got that answer.
« Last Edit: 28/10/2023 04:30:54 by hamdani yusuf »
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