[paul cotter (OP)]

Personally I think it is pointless regardless of whether one believes in global anthropogenic warming or not. The possibility of global agreement on anything is close to zero given human nature. The conference head will be uttering lofty aspirations while selling petroleum on the side!

[Petrochemicals]

Vain morons with idealistic outlooks who have no idea how to do anything. You have the king of the UK who being terribly rich amongst politicians from Eaton Cambridge (<----- !) and harvard who are ex bankers speaking of their dreamy plans with no idea how to implement said plans and no need whatsoever to do so, they remind me of the just stop oit protestors. Heat pumps and solar panels are not an idea for the UK, if you want your own renewable energy source here, invest in a wind turbine.

These people cannot even make the economy function, so making a switch to renewable energy is going to end in failure.

[paul cotter (OP)]

Aha!, a response at last, thank you Petro, I thought my abject cynicism had precluded any replies. More or less I agree.

[alancalverd]

It is a conference of people who will not do anything because their careers depend on maintaining the status quo.  Politicians have a maximum 5-year horizon and with an average of 2.5y their only interest is in getting re-elected. Kings have a longer horizon but they are either powerless (in a democracy) or corrupt.   Businessmen have a legal duty to maximise shareholder returns. Climate "scientists" and protestors have a vested interest in continued problems, not solutions. The people who will suffer from the changing climate aren't born yet. So nobody inside or outside the meeting will do anything to mitigate the effect  of the inevitable.

[Origin]

I think it is a good thing.  We need to keep an eye on this experiment we are in where we warm the earth, because we really don't know how it is going to turn out.

[Petrochemicals]

Kings have a longer horizon but they are either powerless (in a democracy) or corrupt.   

There is jolly king Charlie, the kings of the middle east all sat round a table. This group owning vast swathes of land and sea, having  money that would make the forbes rich list blush yet the best they can do is tell me and my peers how bad we are with the positions of our birth and enforce legislation to make our lives difficult.

I don't want solar panels, I don't want an electric car yet, I will wait for better technology. I don't want a heat pump. I don't want to save water, I am in the UK, we have no shortage of rain, if you want to stop water shortages ban hosepipes permenantly. If they banned hosepipes in Califorinia they would have no shortage of water and the hoover dam would refill, but the golf courses would go brown.

[Zer0]

I think it is a good thing.  We need to keep an eye on this experiment we are in where we warm the earth, because we really don't know how it is going to turn out.

Bravo!
Finally someone Dared to speakout.

I'm quite tired of hearing doomsday predictions.

Anyways, i do have a doubt...

Is there a Tipping point in this scenario?

Say Global Temp increases by 10 or 20 or 30 degree Celsius.

When does the Runaway Effect come into play?

At what Temp or Time do We transform Earth into a 2nd Venus?

[alancalverd]

Historically, global mean temperature in the last million years has had a range of about 12 degrees, rising rapidly to a sharp peak about every 100,000 years then declining slowly. The atmospheric CO2 concentration follows the same curve, a few years behind the temperature graph.

Civilisation as we know it began during the present rise as the ice retreated and humans moved northward. We should be nearing the peak about now or within the next 500 years.

The cycle has nothing to do with human activity and there is nothing we can do to control it. We can however mitigate its effect on society, but that demands significant remodelling of politics , the abolition of religion, and positive collaboration between all people everywhere. With careful planning and execution we could preserve the benefits of the last 20,000 years' research and development through the depth of the next ice age. The alternative is global war and the destruction of all civilised values and comforts.

[alancalverd]

As for renewables, the coldest UK days in the past week were (as always) those with no wind. And there is very little sunlight this time of year.

[Zer0]

As for renewables, the coldest UK days in the past week were (as always) those with no wind. And there is very little sunlight this time of year.

Morocco gets a fair bit of the Sun.
Issue being Transmission.

Nuclear Power a reliable Back-up.
Issue being Waste.

Tidal Wave energy has Potential.
Issue being Sea creatures.

ps - i wonder how Humans were able to Survive before the advent of Fire?

[alancalverd]

Morocco gets a fair bit of the Sun.

Only during daylight hours, which are pretty much the same as the UK. and if you covered Morocco with solar panels, the sensible next step would be to move all your manufacturing industry to  Morocco.

Tidal Wave energy has Potential.
Issue being Sea creatures.

There have been attempts to harness tidal and wave power for several centuries. Some tidal mills were reasonably successful at grinding corn but AFAIK  there are very few suitable locations for tidal generation of electricity and those that aren't commercial ports (not a good idea to erect a dam across Southampton)  would require flooding of vast areas of farmland to produce a useful amount of power. Wave power is less predictable than wind and involves enormous quantities of moving machinery being tethered in a hostile environment - again, very little  output from a huge number of failed projects over the last 100 years.

Nuclear waste isn't as serious a problem as the quantity of fossil fuel you have to expend to build and fuel up a nuclear power station. Back in the old days, the payback period was about 5 years but it is now more like 20 - 50 years and therefore commercially unattractive.

[Bored chemist]

As for renewables, the coldest UK days in the past week were (as always) those with no wind. And there is very little sunlight this time of year.

Holy Cow!
You are right.
Someone should organise a meeting so we can look at this on a scale bigger than the UK.
Maybe even on a global scale.

[Bored chemist]

the sensible next step would be to move all your manufacturing industry to  Morocco.

OK, so, if that's "sensible"  is it a problem?

[Petrochemicals]

.

Tidal Wave energy has Potential.
Issue being Sea creatures.

Why does the sea get off Scot free? You're house is built on land where the problem was bears, the food you eat was grown where the problem was bisons.

[alancalverd]

Ah, the pleasure of rational global government. Meanwhile, on this planet, the government of Morocco or wherever requires a usurious rent from any foreign power or company attempting to export electricity from a solar farm* and the governments of France and Spain charge rent for the pylons that carry it. So once again the UK consumer is at the mercy of foreigners.

On the other hand if I wanted to set up a new manufacturing plant, I'd be tempted by a country that could offer free electricity in addition to the usual benefits of a serious unemployment problem and negligible workers' rights.


*It's our oil sunshine! - Where have you heard that before?

[Zer0]

Thanks Alot @Petrochemicals

For showing Me the Mirror,
a bit i shiver, a bit i quiver.
 I find, Staring right back at me, is the Root cause of all Terror!

[paul cotter (OP)]

Was anything achieved? other than aspiration?

[alancalverd]

Politicians established their green credentials and voter base by attending

"Scientists" enhanced their careers and CVs by attending

Civil servants and  political sub-parasites earned their pensions by drafting meaningless statements

Journalists got a trip to somewhere warm, misogynistic, antisemitic and homophobic (but, unlike the pub, no beer).

The United Nations got a spurious sense of having actually achieved something

Airlines made a profit

So it was All Good.

When it comes to pointless arguments about the inevitable, King Canute actually did an experiment, which gives him an honourable place in history, unlike the 70,000 worthless freeloaders listed above.

[paul cotter (OP)]

Good morning, Alan. I see we share a high degree of cynicism.

[Petrochemicals]

I did see that the Saudis and others wouldn't agree because of the cut in fossil fuels, the one minister from one of these countries made the point that they where victims in all of this as they are so reliant on fossil fuel extortion exportation, with interfering price gougingmarket forces, they would be unable to afford labour and lives of luxury  work. And think of poor Russia too the propaganda regime and robbery socialist paradise may collapse.

They could always put a couple of extra dollars on a barrel of oil I suppose.