[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The twins scenario illustrates time differential, which is an objective (frame independent) fact. Time dilation is a coordinate effect and is entirely frame dependent. Just pointing this part out so hopefully the terms get used more correctly.

Most of sources I've seen on special relativity don't distinguish them, and only use time dilation term, such as the case with muons.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So he sees the giant clocks tick faster than his onboard clock, both on going and return trips.

It only appears to run fast if it is approaching you, which is true only half the time. I didn't offer an explanation. You asked what the rocket guy would see on the clocks as they passed by, and I answered that.

More details: Suppose he always watches the Earth clock. For 65 days it is receding and during those 2+ months it appears to advance about 4 minutes, 22500x slower. On the 2nd leg, Earth is approaching and it appears to run about 45 times faster, so it appears to gain about 8 years in those 65 days.
The Earth observer sees the same thing if he watches the ship clock. 22500x slower when outbound and 45x faster when it is returning, but in his case, the vast majority of the time (over 8 years) is spent watching it recede, and the return leg appears to take only a day and a half.

Let me rephrase my statement you quoted.
His onboarding clock ticks slower on average than the giant clocks.
Traveling twin sees the giant clock the he is passing by showing the time according to Origin's calculation.
Earth clock ~ 4
Second clock ~ 5
Third clock ~ 6
Fourth clock ~ 7
Star clock ~ 8, then return.
Fourth clock ~ 9
Third clock ~ 10
Second clock ~ 11
Earth clock ~ 12
According to the diagram, his own clock ticks 22.4 times faster during first leg as well as second leg of the journey. But somehow at the turning point, the clock changes its reading to compensate for the difference, hence in the end, traveling clock shows smaller value than earth clock.
Lorentzian relativity says that traveling clock ticks slower than giant clocks in both legs, and in the end both twins agree what their clocks would read when they reunite, as well as in each milestones. The asymmetry is caused by relative motion through aether. But special relativity tells a different story.

[Halc]

So he sees the giant clocks tick faster than his onboard clock, both on going and return trips.

It only appears to run fast if it is approaching you, which is true only half the time. I didn't offer an explanation. You asked what the rocket guy would see on the clocks as they passed by, and I answered that.

More details: Suppose he always watches the Earth clock. For 65 days it is receding and during those 2+ months it appears to advance about 4 minutes, 22500x slower. On the 2nd leg, Earth is approaching and it appears to run about 45 times faster, so it appears to gain about 8 years in those 65 days.
The Earth observer sees the same thing if he watches the ship clock. 22500x slower when outbound and 45x faster when it is returning, but in his case, the vast majority of the time (over 8 years) is spent watching it recede, and the return leg appears to take only a day and a half.

But that's not what the explanation shown by MinutePhysics' video.

The video is a pretty good one and I have no objections to it. It doesn't in any way describe what either observer sees when looking at distant clocks or when passing moving clocks. They're different questions. The video is trying to explain the time differential (them being different ages upon meeting later on). It isn't about appearances at all.

The twins scenario illustrates time differential, which is an objective (frame independent) fact. Time dilation is a coordinate effect and is entirely frame dependent. Just pointing this part out so hopefully the terms get used more correctly.

Let me rephrase my statement you quoted.
His onboarding clock ticks slower on average than the giant clocks.

Which clock ticks faster is a frame dependent thing, and no frame was specified, so no, this isn't correct.
Relative to Earth, the ship clock ticks slower. Relative to some inertial frame in which the ship is stationary, the Earth clock and all the giant clocks tick slower.

 

Traveling twin sees the giant clock the he is passing by showing the time according to Origin's calculation.
Earth clock ~ 4
Second clock ~ 5
Third clock ~ 6
Fourth clock ~ 7
Star clock ~ 8, then return.
Fourth clock ~ 9
Third clock ~ 10
Second clock ~ 11
Earth clock ~ 12

Yes. This is consistent with the numbers in my prior post.
For instance, from the ship PoV, at the start, the 2nd clock appears to read 3 (just like you said in post 36).  16.3 days later when the 2nd clock passes by, it reads 5, which means it appears to run ~45x  as fast because it is approaching, exactly the rate that I posted.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Which clock ticks faster is a frame dependent thing, and no frame was specified, so no, this isn't correct.

According to traveling twin, his own clock ticks faster than the giant clocks, which is moving relative to him. I think this is the consensus among modern physicists.

For instance, from the ship PoV, at the start, the 2nd clock appears to read 3 (just like you said in post 36).  16.3 days later when the 2nd clock passes by, it reads 5, which means it appears to run ~45x  as fast because it is approaching, exactly the rate that I posted.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Imagine we have CCTV in every giant clock.
What's the rocket clock showing when it's passing the second giant clock, as seen by the CCTV on it?
What's the rocket clock showing when it's passing the giant clock at the turning point, as seen by the CCTV on it?

[Origin]

Imagine we have CCTV in every giant clock.

Why?  What would be the point? 

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Imagine we have CCTV in every giant clock.

Why?  What would be the point? 

So we can get the observations from both frames of reference locally, where the events take place, ie, when the spaceship is passing a giant clock. So we can compare them in order to determine which side of the paradox is invalid.

[Origin]

So we can get the observations from both frames of reference locally, where the events take place, ie, when the spaceship is passing a giant clock.

I don't understand.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

In minutephysics' video, there are only two clocks, and the events are only observed from two observers, which are the bare minimum to describe the situation.

Earth twin represents non-changing frame of reference. Traveling twin represents changing frame of reference. Unless when they are meeting on earth in the beginning and end of the journey, the earth twin only observes the key events remotely, especially at the turning point.

Spaceship clock is in two different inertial frame of reference, one during outgoing trip, and the other during return trip.

All giant clocks are in the same inertial frame of reference, despite being in vastly different positions. They allow the traveling twin to trace the events locally from his own position, without having to observe distant events like the reading of earth clock.
The CCTV s allow the earth twin to trace the events locally in his own frame of reference, and compare the reading of spaceship clock and giant clocks as they are passing by.

[Origin]

The CCTV s allow the earth twin to trace the events locally in his own frame of reference, and compare the reading of spaceship clock and giant clocks as they are passing by.

I don't see how that would be possible.  If the transmitter of the CCTV is 2 ly away the person on earth won't receive the transmission for 2 years, so what's the point?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The CCTV s allow the earth twin to trace the events locally in his own frame of reference, and compare the reading of spaceship clock and giant clocks as they are passing by.

I don't see how that would be possible.  If the transmitter of the CCTV is 2 ly away the person on earth won't receive the transmission for 2 years, so what's the point?

The point is to capture the events locally, which will be investigated later on. They're for matching up between  traveling clock and giant clock as they are passing by. That becomes necessary since the video mentions that the clock reading can be affected by observer's motion and position when done remotely.
The CCTV can be replaced by independent observers which will communicate the results. When the information arrive isn't important, but what they tell is what's important.

[Origin]

The CCTV can be replaced by independent observers which will communicate the results.

I see, there is no point to having a CCTV.
Actually there is no point in running this impossible experiment anyway since we already know what the results will be.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The CCTV can be replaced by independent observers which will communicate the results.

I see, there is no point to having a CCTV.
Actually there is no point in running this impossible experiment anyway since we already know what the results will be.

We've agreed what the giant clocks show when the traveling twin is passing them. What would the traveling clock show in each event, when observed at the same time and position?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The CCTV s allow the earth twin to trace the events locally in his own frame of reference, and compare the reading of spaceship clock and giant clocks as they are passing by.

I don't see how that would be possible.  If the transmitter of the CCTV is 2 ly away the person on earth won't receive the transmission for 2 years, so what's the point?

The point is to capture the events locally, which will be investigated later on. They're for matching up between  traveling clock and giant clock as they are passing by. That becomes necessary since the video mentions that the clock reading can be affected by observer's motion and position when done remotely.
The CCTV can be replaced by independent observers which will communicate the results. When the information arrive isn't important, but what they tell is what's important.

The importance of local observers is made clear by Janus' post that's also pointed out by Halc.

The observation of the accelerated twin is equally valid.   It is just that his observations are effected by his acceleration while he is actively accelerating. This includes clocks in the direction of the acceleration running fast compared to his own by a factor determined by the magnitude of the acceleration and the distance to the clock.

[Origin]

Thought experiments are only useful to examine consistency among many assumptions taken to build a model. It can't check if the model accurately represent physical reality. That would take physical experiments.

We are talking about a thought experiment.

[Origin]

We've agreed what the giant clocks show when the traveling twin is passing them. What would the traveling clock show in each event, when observed at the same time and position?

Halc has given you those numbers twice.

The importance of local observers is made clear by Janus' post that's also pointed out by Halc.

Nobody has said otherwise.  Your idea about the CCTV is an unnecessary complication, you should just drop it.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Let me rephrase my statement you quoted.
His onboarding clock ticks slower on average than the giant clocks.

Which clock ticks faster is a frame dependent thing, and no frame was specified, so no, this isn't correct.
Relative to Earth, the ship clock ticks slower. Relative to some inertial frame in which the ship is stationary, the Earth clock and all the giant clocks tick slower.

 

Traveling twin sees the giant clock the he is passing by showing the time according to Origin's calculation.
Earth clock ~ 4
Second clock ~ 5
Third clock ~ 6
Fourth clock ~ 7
Star clock ~ 8, then return.
Fourth clock ~ 9
Third clock ~ 10
Second clock ~ 11
Earth clock ~ 12

Yes. This is consistent with the numbers in my prior post.
For instance, from the ship PoV, at the start, the 2nd clock appears to read 3 (just like you said in post 36).  16.3 days later when the 2nd clock passes by, it reads 5, which means it appears to run ~45x  as fast because it is approaching, exactly the rate that I posted.

Let's pair the values of the giant clocks with travelling clock.
Earth clock ~ 4Y --- 0 d
Second clock ~ 5Y --- 16.3 d
Third clock ~ 6Y --- 32.6 d
Fourth clock ~ 7Y --- 49 d
Star clock ~ 8Y --- 65.3 d, then return.
Fourth clock ~ 9Y --- 81.6 d
Third clock ~ 10Y --- 97.9 d
Second clock ~ 11Y --- 114.2 d
Earth clock ~ 12Y --- 130.6 d
Observers on giant clocks and travelling clock should agree with these values.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

We've agreed what the giant clocks show when the traveling twin is passing them. What would the traveling clock show in each event, when observed at the same time and position?

Halc has given you those numbers twice.

The importance of local observers is made clear by Janus' post that's also pointed out by Halc.

Nobody has said otherwise.  Your idea about the CCTV is an unnecessary complication, you should just drop it.

The CCTV are necessary to pinpoint where and when the asymmetry appears. Minutephysics video seems to conclude that it appears at the turning point, when the spaceship reverses its direction.

[Origin]

The CCTV are necessary to pinpoint where and when the asymmetry appears. Minutephysics video seems to conclude that it appears at the turning point, when the spaceship reverses its direction.

That CCTV sure seems important to you.  It's just a thought experiment so don't sweat it.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The asymmetry was known once the itinerary was made. Everybody from anywhere can see it. I have no idea why you think a CCTV present at the star-clock would show anything not already visible to everybody else, including the ship which happens to actually be there.

Imagine that the CCTV on the turning point is also equipped with a powerful telescope which can observe the giant clocks as well as the clock on the space ship. What would it see during the experiment?
When the twin started the flight, the earth clock has already shown 4 y, while traveling clock is still 0, which will be seen by the distant CCTV 4 years later. When the signals arrive at the turning point, it's own clock would already show 8 y.
When the space ship arrives at the turning point, the giant clock there shows 4 + 4/0.999 = 8.004 y. The traveling clock shows 4/0.999/22.4 = 0.18 y