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Quote from: Halc on 26/12/2024 22:28:30No it doesn't. In fact, it doesn't mention observation at all since there are no light lines in the picture. If the twin looks at Earth when turning around, he sees the same thing just before and just after the acceleration. The observation only changes in redshift, but no time jump is observed. What is observed would be physical fact, and nobody regardless of where they are could contest it.OK. I agree that this is not an observation, which should also consider light transit time. It's just a mental model of physical reality to calculate and predict the outcome. But if these time jumps are ignored, we get the wrong results. Nevertheless, the reverse time jump is as real (or as unreal) as the forward time jump in the analysis of twin paradox using space-time diagram.
No it doesn't. In fact, it doesn't mention observation at all since there are no light lines in the picture. If the twin looks at Earth when turning around, he sees the same thing just before and just after the acceleration. The observation only changes in redshift, but no time jump is observed. What is observed would be physical fact, and nobody regardless of where they are could contest it.
The Wikipedia article also shows some methods to determine how each twin observes the age of the other twin, like by sending signal at a constant interval, say once a year. For example, the journey takes ten years in earth frame, and the time dilation makes the travelling twin to age only eight years. The earth twin sends ten signals and receives only eight. While the travelling twin sends eight signals and receives ten.This scenario unambiguously tells that travelling twin ages less than stationary twin, from the perspective of both twins. It doesn't matter how many times the travelling twin changes his reference frame, as long as he maintains his speed almost constant during the journey.The stationary twin sends signals at the constant rate, but receives signals at different rate between outgoing and incoming legs of the journey.
It doesn't matter how many times the travelling twin changes his reference frame, as long as he maintains his speed almost constant during the journey.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/01/2025 21:27:48It doesn't matter how many times the travelling twin changes his reference frame, as long as he maintains his speed almost constant during the journey.Something of a selfcontradiction?
But that means he is changing from an inertial to an accelerated reference frame. Relativity applies to velocity, not speed.
How do you think the acceleration affects the aging of the twins?
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/02/2025 10:47:06How do you think the acceleration affects the aging of the twins?If there was never any acceleration, either there is no relative velocity or they were never twins.
Yes, according to Einstein?s theory of relativity, the accelerating twin in the famous twin paradox ages more slowly than the inertial twin who stays on Earth. However, the precise calculation of how much slower the accelerating twin ages requires a proper relativistic treatment.The acceleration during the turnaround does not directly cause time dilation but is necessary to change frames. During the turnaround, the traveling twin briefly exists in a non-inertial frame, which leads to an asymmetry in the twin paradox. However, the net effect on aging is still dominated by the time dilation from the high-speed travel phases.ConclusionThe accelerating twin ages less than the inertial twin due to the relativistic time dilation effect. The exact amount of aging difference depends on the velocity and duration of the trip but follows the Lorentz factor formula.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/01/2025 21:27:48The Wikipedia article also shows some methods to determine how each twin observes the age of the other twin, like by sending signal at a constant interval, say once a year. For example, the journey takes ten years in earth frame, and the time dilation makes the travelling twin to age only eight years. The earth twin sends ten signals and receives only eight. While the travelling twin sends eight signals and receives ten.This scenario unambiguously tells that travelling twin ages less than stationary twin, from the perspective of both twins. It doesn't matter how many times the travelling twin changes his reference frame, as long as he maintains his speed almost constant during the journey.The stationary twin sends signals at the constant rate, but receives signals at different rate between outgoing and incoming legs of the journey.This thought experiment can be used to distinguish between Einstein's theory of relativity and Lorentz' theory of relativity. IMO, Lorentz' is easier to simulate. It doesn't involve any time jump. But being easier doesn't necessarily mean more accurate. For time symmetry, let's make the stationary twin send signals to the travelling twin at t= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, ..., 9.5 years in his frame of reference. The traveling twin send signals to the stationary twin at t= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, ..., 7.5 years in his own frame of reference, which is a journey of 10 years in earth time, but only 8 years in his frame of reference. When does the twins receive the signals from the other twin?
It basically says that acceleration effect on aging is negligible
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/02/2025 03:19:53It basically says that acceleration effect on aging is negligible No. It implies that acceleration is essential otherwise there cannot be a relative velocity between twins. Read this part.
However, the net effect on aging is still dominated by the time dilation from the high-speed travel phases.
The traffic lights turn green. One car accelerates to a constant velocity, the other stays still. Obviously the distance between them increases with time, but only if the initial acceleration is not zero.
You cannot, by definition, synchronise clocks that are in relative motion. You can set them both to zero as the ships pass, but neither can say that the other is ticking at the same rate, so they are not in sync.
So no "paradox" if no acceleration. And thanks to Einstein's neat explanation, no paradox anyway.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/01/2025 06:03:38Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/01/2025 21:27:48The Wikipedia article also shows some methods to determine how each twin observes the age of the other twin, like by sending signal at a constant interval, say once a year. For example, the journey takes ten years in earth frame, and the time dilation makes the travelling twin to age only eight years. The earth twin sends ten signals and receives only eight. While the travelling twin sends eight signals and receives ten.This scenario unambiguously tells that travelling twin ages less than stationary twin, from the perspective of both twins. It doesn't matter how many times the travelling twin changes his reference frame, as long as he maintains his speed almost constant during the journey.The stationary twin sends signals at the constant rate, but receives signals at different rate between outgoing and incoming legs of the journey.This thought experiment can be used to distinguish between Einstein's theory of relativity and Lorentz' theory of relativity. IMO, Lorentz' is easier to simulate. It doesn't involve any time jump. But being easier doesn't necessarily mean more accurate. For time symmetry, let's make the stationary twin send signals to the travelling twin at t= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, ..., 9.5 years in his frame of reference. The traveling twin send signals to the stationary twin at t= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, ..., 7.5 years in his own frame of reference, which is a journey of 10 years in earth time, but only 8 years in his frame of reference. When does the twins receive the signals from the other twin? Here's the space-time diagram of this signal exchange between stationary twin and travelling twin, according to Lorentz' theory of relativity.As usual, horizontal axis represents space while vertical axis represents time.In left picture, the stationary twin sends light signal every year, starting from t=0.5y. He sends 10 signals in total. The travelling twin only receive 2 signal before he turns around. The other 8 are received during return journey.In right picture, the travelling twin sends light signal every year in his reference frame, which corresponds to 1.25 years in earth reference because of time dilation. He sends 8 signals in total. The stationary twin only receive 2 signal before half time of the journey period, 1 right at half time, and the other 5 are received after that.
Congratulation. You might just solved a problem that had caused disagreements among physicists for more than a century.