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  4. Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
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Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #160 on: 08/11/2024 13:16:03 »
I don't think there is such a thing as "established science".

There are books of established data, and these are continually refined to meet the needs of the folk who use them.

There is a body of scientific knowledge, which consists of explanatory and predictive hypotheses that have not yet been disproved. A few of these hypotheses have proved so robust that they are called "laws"  but it is always accepted that they may only be valid as approximations over a given range of variables.

So what is the problem? I smell philosophy!   
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #161 on: 09/11/2024 11:13:47 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/11/2024 13:16:03
I don't think there is such a thing as "established science".
According to ChatGPT,
Quote
Established science refers to scientific knowledge, theories, or principles that have been extensively tested, repeatedly verified, and widely accepted by the scientific community. It encompasses findings that have been rigorously scrutinized through experiments, observations, peer reviews, and debates over time.

For example, foundational concepts like the laws of thermodynamics, the theory of evolution, and the principles of genetics are considered established science. While scientific understanding can evolve as new evidence arises, established science represents the best current understanding based on a robust body of evidence and consensus among experts.


What makes you think that it doesn't exist?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #162 on: 10/11/2024 16:45:07 »
As usual, CHATGPT gives you the useless, childish answer it thinks you want. Just to pick up a small point: "debate" has no place in science. All scientific hypotheses are subject to mathematical or experimental disproof, and all scientific data is open for review.

Likewise the "theory of evolution" is a meaningless term coined by religious parasites and used by those who do not understand the business of science. Evolution is an observed phenomenon, not a theory.  If there  is no evidence of the existence of species A  prior to  a given date X, it must have either been created spontaneously at X or evolved from something else.

Lots of what politicians, journalists and civilians called "established science" has been proved wrong over time. No big deal - it just means the term has no value.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #163 on: 10/11/2024 22:00:15 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/11/2024 16:45:07
As usual, CHATGPT gives you the useless, childish answer it thinks you want. Just to pick up a small point: "debate" has no place in science. All scientific hypotheses are subject to mathematical or experimental disproof, and all scientific data is open for review.
What's the mature answer?
Haven't you heard about debate between Einstein and Bohr? Or Newton and Hooke?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #164 on: 10/11/2024 22:10:21 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/11/2024 16:45:07
Likewise the "theory of evolution" is a meaningless term coined by religious parasites and used by those who do not understand the business of science. Evolution is an observed phenomenon, not a theory.  If there  is no evidence of the existence of species A  prior to  a given date X, it must have either been created spontaneously at X or evolved from something else.
What's your source?
According to Gemini,
Quote
The exact origin of the term "theory of evolution" is difficult to pinpoint, as ideas about species changing over time predate its formal use. However, the term became widely recognized after Charles Darwin published "On the Origin of Species" in 1859. This book presented the theory of evolution by natural selection, which revolutionized our understanding of life on Earth. While the term might have been used informally before, Darwin's work popularized it and solidified its association with the scientific concept of biological evolution.

It seems like your source of information isn't widely known.

Humans have the ability to create new species. Some even have synthetic nucleotide.
« Last Edit: 10/11/2024 22:14:34 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #165 on: 10/11/2024 22:18:32 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/11/2024 16:45:07
Lots of what politicians, journalists and civilians called "established science" has been proved wrong over time. No big deal - it just means the term has no value.
They were established before they were proven wrong. There's difference from theories that have never been established.
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #166 on: 11/11/2024 01:31:44 »
No Scientific Innovation Since the 1920s? Is Academia's 'Publish or Perish' Stifling Science?
Quote
Would someone like Einstein flourish in academia's "Publish or Perish"?

Gregory Chaitin is a pioneering mathematician and computer scientist, renowned for founding algorithmic information theory. Gregory published his first groundbreaking paper at the age of 15 and has been a key figure at the Institute for Advanced Studies, contributing extensively to the fields of metabiology and complexity theory.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
01:20 - Lack of Scientific Progress
06:22 - The Academic System
12:03 - Crisis in ?Fundamental? Physics
18:18 - Ancient Societies (Greece, Egypt, Alexandria)
23:05 - European Bureaucracy
27:08 - Albert Einstein
29:14 - Heterodox Experiments (Cold Fusion)
34:34 - Outro / Support TOE

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #167 on: 11/11/2024 12:49:31 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/11/2024 22:00:15
Haven't you heard about debate between Einstein and Bohr? Or Newton and Hooke?

This is also a debate. Although it's unlike live political debates prior to elections where the participants respond to the arguments from their rivals in real time.

Is the famous black hole image "wrong"?

Quote
Do you remember the famous images of the supermassive black holes in the centre of the galaxy M87 and our own galaxy the Milky Way that were taken by the Event Horizon Telescope? Well this month a team of researchers based in Japan, have released a paper claiming that they can?t reproduce an image with a ring-like structure with the same data of the Milky Way?s black hole, and instead get something that looks a bit more like a blob. On top of that they published a claim back in 2022 that they also couldn?t reproduce the black hole image for the M87* data as well. Now the Event Horizon Team have responded saying they think the Japanese group of researchers have got it wrong. So there?s a lot to unpack here, and this video is going to cover a lot of ground starting first with 1) A quick recap on what you?re seeing in these black hole images 2) How the Event Horizon Telescope works and how these images are constructed 3) What Miyoshi, Kato & Makino are claiming is wrong with the images, and 4) The Event Horizon Telescope team?s response and where that leaves us.

00:00 - Introduction
02:44 - Ground News AD
04:50 - A quick recap on the radio light you?re seeing in these black hole images
07:19 - How the Event Horizon Telescope works (VLBI) and how these images are constructed
10:08 - What Miyoshi, Kato & Makino are claiming is wrong with the images
15:25 - The Event Horizon Telescope team?s response and where that leaves us
22:28 - Bloopers
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #168 on: 11/11/2024 16:28:42 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/11/2024 22:00:15
What's the mature answer?
Reply #160 above.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #169 on: 11/11/2024 16:32:35 »
I certainly agree that geniuses are being silenced, though there is a subtle difference between a politically convenient consensus (economic growth is good, we need more people, climate change is anthropogenic....) and an actual conspiracy to do harm, even if the outcome is the same.

As for "publish or perish", I have grave doubts about the value of 95% of what is published or presented in my fields of interest. Photons travel in straight lines until they interact with something, and if you wouldn't do it to your nearest and dearest, it isn't ethical. But I still have to go to conferences and read papers where the bloody obvious is repeated ad nauseam for the greater glory of the presenter.
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #170 on: 11/11/2024 16:39:05 »
The object of a debate is to convince your audience of the rightness or wrongness of a statement by presenting opposing views and selected evidence. The object of scientific review  is to examine the fit between all available evidence and hypothesis.   
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #171 on: 11/11/2024 16:55:20 »
Darwin did not present evolution as a theory. As your chatbot correctly says   the term became widely recognized after Charles Darwin published ..... AFAIK the term does not appear in Origin of Species.

What Darwin said is exactly what I said: evolution is an observation, and it is a reasonable hypothesis that evolution plus natural selection can lead to the dominance of new species and the extinction of others. The idea that environmental pressure of any sort can drive evolution remained absurd until very recently.

The religious scum who opposed Darwin coined the term "theory of evolution" to cast doubt over any suggestion that the world was not created in seven days for the benefit of homo sapiens.
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #172 on: 13/11/2024 12:50:29 »

Quote from: alancalverd on 11/11/2024 16:28:42
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/11/2024 22:00:15
What's the mature answer?
Reply #160 above.
This one?
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/11/2024 13:16:03
I don't think there is such a thing as "established science".
It sounds like a hopeless and self defeating position.
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #173 on: 13/11/2024 13:43:10 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/11/2024 16:39:05
The object of a debate is to convince your audience of the rightness or wrongness of a statement by presenting opposing views and selected evidence. The object of scientific review  is to examine the fit between all available evidence and hypothesis.   

Boltzmann and Mach are involved in a heated scientific debate.
Quote
In the serene town of Duino, Italy, on September 5, 1906, physicist Ludwig Boltzmann took his own life. The reason was constant criticism for his belief in atoms?a concept most scientists of his era dismissed.

Boltzmann was among the first to use atoms and molecules to explain the mysteries of thermodynamics?ideas that eventually formed the foundation of quantum mechanics. Despite this, he had to face massive criticism from his colleagues, mostly from Mach and Ostwald. Mach believed that since atoms could not be observed, they are not scientific theories. Shortly after his death, Boltzmann's ideas got widespread acceptance mostly due to the work of Einstein and Planck.

0:00 - 1:44 Intro
1:44 - 2:50 Early life and education
2:50 -  12:43  Boltzmann?s work on Entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics
12:43 - 20:17  Boltzmann's allies and rivals
20:17 - 22:47 Death and Legacy.

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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #174 on: 13/11/2024 13:48:23 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/11/2024 16:55:20
The religious scum who opposed Darwin coined the term "theory of evolution" to cast doubt over any suggestion that the world was not created in seven days for the benefit of homo sapiens.
What's your evidence that the term "theory of evolution" was coined by religious persons?
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #175 on: 13/11/2024 13:52:50 »
ChatGPT explains about theory.
Quote
A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is based on a body of evidence, observations, and experiments. It provides a framework for understanding and predicting phenomena, often integrating multiple hypotheses and laws that have been tested and confirmed.

Key Aspects of a Theory:

1. Explanatory Power: A theory explains why and how something happens. For instance, the theory of evolution explains how species change over time, and the theory of gravity explains how objects are attracted to each other.


2. Based on Evidence: Theories are not mere guesses; they are built on repeated observations, data, and experimental results. For example, the germ theory of disease is based on substantial evidence showing that microorganisms cause illness.


3. Testable and Falsifiable: A theory can be tested and potentially disproven by evidence. If new evidence contradicts it, scientists may revise the theory or develop a new one.


4. Predictive Power: A strong theory can make accurate predictions about unknown or future phenomena. For example, the theory of general relativity predicts the behavior of objects in gravitational fields, which has been confirmed by observations.



The Difference from Hypotheses and Laws:

A hypothesis is an initial, testable statement or prediction. A theory, in contrast, is a well-developed explanation.

A law describes a fundamental relationship in nature, often mathematically (e.g., Newton?s law of gravitation), but it doesn?t explain why that relationship exists ? which is where theories come in.


In essence, a theory is a comprehensive and reliable model for understanding the natural world, refined through rigorous testing and evidence.


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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #176 on: 13/11/2024 14:31:31 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/11/2024 13:48:23
What's your evidence that the term "theory of evolution" was coined by religious persons?
The fact that Darwin didn't  use the term but his critics, the most vocal of whom were religious parasites or infected by religion, did.
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #177 on: 13/11/2024 14:40:12 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/11/2024 12:50:29
Quote
from: alancalverd on 08/11/2024 13:16:03
I don't think there is such a thing as "established science".
It sounds like a hopeless and self defeating position.

On the contrary. It underlines the fact that science is a dynamic process of investigation and refinement, which from time to time generates useful data and hypotheses, none of which are claimed to be immune from scrutiny and revision. Unlike politics, philosophy, economics and religion.

The dangers of "established science" are underlined by the current debate in COP29 where folk who live in overpopulated, ecologically fragile areas are demanding that those who don't, pay them to continue doing so.
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #178 on: 13/11/2024 14:47:08 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/11/2024 13:43:10
his belief in atoms?a concept most scientists of his era dismissed.
Given that Democritus posited the notion of atoms 2000 years earlier, chemists had been using Dalton's more precise atomic theory for almost 100 years, and Doebereiner and Mendeleev organised atoms into a periodic table with predictive properties by 1870,  I find this statement less than credible.   
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Re: Where do I get my confidence to challenge established theories?
« Reply #179 on: 14/11/2024 01:42:04 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 13/11/2024 14:31:31
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/11/2024 13:48:23
What's your evidence that the term "theory of evolution" was coined by religious persons?
The fact that Darwin didn't  use the term but his critics, the most vocal of whom were religious parasites or infected by religion, did.
Afaik, his proponents also use the same term.
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