[Eternal Student (OP)]

Hi.

    What is the difference between Beer, Lager and Ale?
Seems to have a different colour with Lager being a bit more see-through,  Ale is just Beer they drunk in the old days - but overall they're all just the same thing aren't they?   Although for some reason people seem to get upset when you bring them the wrong one.

    Perhaps there's some chemical or biological difference?   One made with yeast, the other made with some other microbial organism - maybe natural yoghurt?

     I did try a quick Google search but it was incredibly dull.   Websites spend for ever talking how something like using an Oak barrel will matter.  As far as I can see, they are all basically the same thing with such minor differences it really shouldn't matter a lot.

Best Wishes.

[Origin]

In general there are 2 main types of beer, lagers and ales.  The difference is the kind of yeast that is used.  Ales have a stronger flavor and usually more hops (bitterness).  Lagers have a lighter crisp flavor.  Lagers are also usually served colder than ales.
Lagers yeast thrives in a cool environment as low as 40F.  Ale yeast thrives in around 70F.

[Halc]

Beer is the common term. Ale and Lager are more specific.
From what little I know, Lager is cold brewed, with most of the fermentation going on at the bottom of the batch. Ale is the other way around: warmer and top fermenting.

Not sure if the ingredient list is necessarily different. Sounds like a different process more than a different recipe.

[Petrochemicals]

From what little I know, Lager is cold brewed, with most of the fermentation going on at the bottom of the batch. Ale is the other way around: warmer and top fermenting.

Yep, the different yeast ES hypothesised, i think that is the biggest difference in the brewers world, followed closley by wheat beer.

Ale is apparently hopless, as in without hops.

[Origin]

Ale is apparently hopless, as in without hops.

Actually ales typically have more hops than lagers as I said earlier.  Sometimes a lot more hops, such as India Pale Ales.

[Eternal Student (OP)]

Hi.

  Hops  -->  That's something I've heard of before.   It's a flower according to Wikipedia.



Some web info is suggesting there are hops in ale, beer and lager and I'm quite prepared to believe the order is
ale > beer > lager.   There may also be hopless ales with some other bittering agent added.

What I'm gathering overall is that they (lager, beer and ale) are all much the same thing.   Thank you, that's probably all I needed to know.

Best Wishes.

[paul cotter]

You are all forgetting porter, the black stuff, as in Guinness. The colour, as far as I know, comes from a large quantity of malt used in manufacture. Beer is my favourite drink although I rarely exceed two drinks these days as opposed to my misspent youth when I drank all alcoholic drinks to excess.

[alancalverd]

The key is in the name. According to the guide at Tuborg Brewery 60 years ago (not all school trips are a waste of time) "lagered" means "kept" - a long, cold brewing period compared with ales that are brewed short and warm and should be consumed at room temperature.

The hops are not just for flavor but act as a preservative, preventing mold and bacterial growth. IPA was developed to provide potable water for ships travelling around Her Beloved Majesty's Empire and really took off in India, to the extent that the lagers served in Indian restaurants around the world (Kingfisher, Cobra....) are less fizzy and more flavored than others and actually developed from an ale.

[paul cotter]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is "IPA"? To me it means isopropanol and i'm quite sure that is not what you intended(allegedly drinkable but NOT recommended). Cobra and some german beers rate high in my estimation.

[Bored chemist]

India
Pale
Ale


And it wasn't intended to provide potable water; it was intended to provide an alcoholic beverage which was robust enough to survive the trip without going off.

[Bored chemist]

. The colour, as far as I know, comes from a large quantity of malt used in manufacture.

At least part of the difference is that the malt is kilned longer/ hotter so it's more caramalised.

[Origin]

And it wasn't intended to provide potable water; it was intended to provide an alcoholic beverage which was robust enough to survive the trip without going off.

Hops is a strange plant.  Hops is an antibacterial, which is why the high level of hops was used in British ales sent on the long trip to India.  It can also cause hyperthermia in dogs if they were to eat the flowers.  I have been making beer for many years and I also grow a couple of varieties of hops.   

Some web info is suggesting there are hops in ale, beer and lager and I'm quite prepared to believe the order is
ale > beer > lager.

Actually I think beer is a general category.  IOW if you said give me any kind of beer at a bar, you might get an ale, a lager, a porter, a bock, a pilsner....

[paul cotter]

The hops plant is closely related to the cannabis plant. It is extensively grown in the south of England but fails to thrive where I live(Ireland).

[alancalverd]

And it wasn't intended to provide potable water; it was intended to provide an alcoholic beverage which was robust enough to survive the trip without going off.

Whisky is much more robust and easier to transport. But not very thirstquenching.  And "fresh" (by Victorian standards) water in barrels tends to accumulate all sorts of nasties over a few weeks.  I rather think the alcohol in IPA is just a happy consequence of the cheapest method of maintaining potability.

[Petrochemicals]

And it wasn't intended to provide potable water; it was intended to provide an alcoholic beverage which was robust enough to survive the trip without going off.

Whisky is much more robust and easier to transport. But not very thirstquenching.  And "fresh" (by Victorian standards) water in barrels tends to accumulate all sorts of nasties over a few weeks.  I rather think the alcohol in IPA is just a happy consequence of the cheapest method of maintaining potability.

Gin and tonic, as in india to prevent malaria and disinfect the water.

[Eternal Student (OP)]

Hi.

   Just a brief note:  I think everyone who has replied has had at least one "thank you" mark from me.  I may not be following the thread any longer and there are unlikely to be more such marks given.   You are all welcome to continue discussing the topic, of course.
    I have my answer, it's all beer.

Best Wishes.   

[Bored chemist]

I rather think the alcohol in IPA is just a happy consequence of the cheapest method of maintaining potability.

I think you have muddled "small beer" (0.5 to 3% ABV, brewed largely to kill the bugs) with "IPA" (typically 4.5 -20 % ABV, though some which were brewed for the domestic market were weaker- about 3.5%).
The good stuff was not generally for the crew to drink.

In the mean time, here is some music

It may have been inspired by someone making teh same mistake.

[alancalverd]

Not sure how "small beer" was brewed but it certainly saved lives and allowed urbanisation in northern Europe. My understanding from an Excise officer friend was that beer is generally brewed at 15 - 20% (the point at which the yeast drowns in its own excrement)  and diluted to "export" or "retail" strength for sale.

[Bored chemist]

Lord knows what they do today but it's not that long ago that my dad was the lab manager in a brewery, and they didn't do that then.
I know they do it with cider.
They harvest apples, crush them and extract the juice, then evaporate a lot of  the water off the juice and store it.
Then they dilute it a bit, ferment it and dilute it again before sale.
That makes sense because apples are seasonal, don't keep well and have a lot of water in them.

However this
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excise-notice-226-beer-duty/excise-notice-226-beer-duty--2
still tells you how to calculate the strength of the product based on the "original Gravity" and "present Gravity"

Wine yeast will survive 12 to 15% or so ABV; but beer yeasts typically won't.
(Fermentation stops when the yeast runs out of sugar to eat.)

Not sure how "small beer" was brewed

The brewing process hasn't changed much.
In some places it really hasn't changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot

[alancalverd]

My friend's story concerned Charrington's brewery, in the East End of London. About half of their product was sold in the West End, and a genius pointed out that they were trucking vast quantities of water across the capital when most of it came from reservoirs to the west in the first place!

So it was decided to ship the full-strength brew and dilute it at a distribution depot closer to the customers. Problem is (as BC's dad would testify) that it is illegal to dilute beer except at a licensed brewery. But to be licensed, a brewery has to actually make something, not "just add water". So they set up a gin laboratory with an experimental still, and my chum  (ex Colonial Service in an ex-colony, well used to the presence of gin, and too young to retire from HM Civil Service) was posted as the resident Excise Officer to audit the gin still and the dilution of various ales. 

As he said, what else can you do with a First in Classics?