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  4. An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
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An English grammar for Russians, anyone?

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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« on: 03/06/2024 09:27:48 »
 Hi,

English and Russian are basically the same.
"Basically" means that they are either the same or opposite.

- - -

Grammatical cases: both languages have them, but English does not use the case endings.

Grammatical tenses: English uses have and will while Russian uses be and even omits it.

Verbs: both languages do not have past tense forms of the verb (except irregular verbs in English), they use  past active participle instead. 
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=-ed

Phrasal verbs: what English puts after the verb, Russian puts it before (and makes it a part of the word).

...


= = =

Sheldon works with Penny at the cheesecake factory - The Big Bang Theory
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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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Re: An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« Reply #1 on: 03/06/2024 12:41:20 »
...

KISS principle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

KISS, an acronym for "Keep it simple, stupid!", ...

If someone takes simple and stupid as adjectives, then

Keep it simple-stupid

sounds more elegant. (less is more)

You see, stupid is an adjective that becomes a noun, and then an addressee.

Simple-stupid is an adjective (well, a complex one, but still an adjective)

- - -

An adjective becoming a noun:

Anything Goes - Cole Porter (with lyrics)


1:35
...
When Missus Ned McLean, God bless her,
Can get Russian reds to "yes" her,
...

red (adjective) becomes a noun (a thing)

= = =

have an apple - have done



After have one expects a thing.

a verb becomes an adjective (participle), an adjective becomes a noun (thing)


Done after have is a past passive participle (an adjective) which becomes a noun (thing, the name of the action/state).


= = =

The best Poirot film
Evil Under the Sun (1982)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083908/
Music: Cole Porter

= = =

Hercule Poirot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercule_Poirot

...
Poirot's name was derived from two other fictional detectives of the time: Marie Belloc Lowndes' Hercule Popeau and Frank Howel Evans' Monsieur Poiret, ...

-

Leek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leek

Poireau
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poireau


leek (UK) = poireau (Fr)

Poireau sounds exactly like Poirot.

So, Hercule(s) Poirot ~ big leek = big nothing.

It does not matter if Poirot is smart or not. He is French, excuse me, he's Belgian.

- - -

Diana Rigg & Maggie Smith sing Cole Porter's "You're the Top"
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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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Re: An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« Reply #2 on: 13/06/2024 10:16:16 »
Hi,

relative - not absolute


Turkish has 8 vowels:

- 4 front/soft;

- 4 back/hard;

- 4 unrounded;

- 4 rounded;

-4 closed;

- 4 open.

/symmetry/

Turkish Grammar: 4-way Vowel Harmony

-

Vowel can be made long in two ways:

- normal [:];

- with a short vowel.
(short schwa and maybe something else included)

-
 
R, l,
m, n,
w, y.

are special.
They are a consonant before a vowel and a short vowel after a vowel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitman_shorthand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pitman_Consonants.PNG

= = =

Now, English, German, French, ... are the same about soft and hard, but Russian is different.

Russian has 5 pairs (hard - soft) of vowels:

hard - soft
 
a - ya
e - ye
o - yo
u - yu
"i" - yi

/hard sign (signs, not vowels)
/soft sign   (actually, English also has hard and soft signs: u, e)

relative - not absolute

= = =

Turkish, Asuman Chelen Pollard, David Pollard
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/35561a850/st9qk683-nm9ksanq-vyn6997y-hvrhhjkv

-

Turkish, G. L. Lewis
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/9cb1cef10/8we42m39-cme6c792-ur6gdnq7-2c3mcrnp/view/default/19991109850005


= = =

Robbie Williams - De Lovely (with Lyrics)
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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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Re: An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« Reply #3 on: 13/06/2024 13:09:36 »

...

a vowel - a syllable;

a short vowel is not a vowel;

...

= = =

...

unrounded - rounded

i - rounded_i (u under the dots is misleading; u is hard but i and rounded i are soft)

e - rounded_e (o under the dots is misleading; ...)

So, o, u, rounded_i, rounded_e are 4 rounded sounds.

-

English has u (rounded) and the "hut" (unrounded, as in but). Both are hard/back vowels.

-

It is mandatory in Russian - hard case ending is on o, soft case ending is on e. Both o and e are
signaling neuter for nouns. O and e are on the same level, back (o) and front (e).

-

Let's not start with demonstrative pronouns, the 3rd person pronouns and definite articles.

that-das-тот
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82


= = =


Daryl Zero: A few words here about following people. People know they're being followed when they turn around and see someone following them. They can't tell they're being followed if you get there first.

-

Daryl Zero: I always say that the essence of my work relies fundamentally on two basic principles: objectivity and observation, or "the two obs" as I call them. My work relies on my ability to remain absolutely, purely objective, detached. I have mastered the fine art of detachment. And while it comes at some cost, this supreme objectivity is what makes me, I dare say, the greatest observer the world has ever known.

-

Gregory Stark: You can't buy silence. You can only rent it. So if someone has something on you, they are always going to have it. So the cost has no ceiling. And the fear has no end to it. That's why some knowledge, some information is like a terminal disease. It's contagious and it's fatal.

-

Daryl Zero: I can't possibly overstate the importance of good research. Everyone goes through life dropping crumbs. If you can recognize the crumbs, you can trace a path all the way back from your death certificate to the dinner and a movie that resulted in you in the first place. But research is an art, not a science, because anyone who knows what they're doing can find the crumbs, the wheres, whats, and whos. The art is in the whys: the ability to read between the crumbs, not to mix metaphors. For every event, there is a cause and effect. For every crime, a motive. And for every motive, a passion. The art of research is the ability to look at the details, and see the passion.

Zero Effect (1998)
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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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Re: An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« Reply #4 on: 13/06/2024 14:40:52 »
All that thinking belongs to 70's. And they finished in '81-'82.
Back then, in 70's, those who spoke a foreign language walked on water.

Adriano Celentano - Il Tempo Se Ne Va
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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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Re: An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« Reply #5 on: 26/06/2024 12:41:41 »
Hi,

Short vowels in English are:

short_schwa, short_i, short_u   (all of them are closed)

and

r, l, m, n   (after a vowel or a short vowel).


fire [faɪər]
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fire

There is one syllable in fire.

a - vowel (one vowel - one syllable)

ɪ - short_vowel

ə - short_vowel

r - short_vowel


- - -
/in relative terms/

The vowels (they are short) in English are:

a, schwa [ə], "the hut" [ʌ],
e, i,

o, u, rounded_a [ɒ]   (can be replaced with o), 

broad_o [ɔ],
broad_e [ɛ] (the sign is opposite ɜ),  broad_schwa [ɜ],

and

a_little_bit_more_broader_e [?]  (can be replaced with [e]).
/as in pat, flat, .../
= = =

English syllables are:

- stressed;

- even, like the first syllable in hotel [hoʊˈtɛl];
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hotel

- not stressed (reduced).

- - -

Reduced vowels are always

i [ɪ] (soft, closed)

and

schwa [ə] (hard, closed).

Stressed and even vowels are whatever one wishes.

= = =

th [?] voiced

can be replaced with [d, z, v]

-

th [θ] voiceless

can be replaced with [t, s, f]

Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once - Michelle Dubois Compilation - 'Allo 'Allo!

-

Along Came Polly (2004) - Story of ze Hippo


= = =   = = =  = = =


Midnight Run (1988) litmus configuration
« Last Edit: 27/06/2024 03:23:36 by Eddie Mars »
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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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Re: An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« Reply #6 on: 01/07/2024 11:34:24 »
Hi,

Now (1-d, 0-d) is ongoing, incomplete (imperfective).

The opposite is complete (perfective).

perfective
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=perfective

imperfective
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/imperfective

im-
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=im-

-ive
https://affixes.org/alpha/i/-ive.html

- - -

1. John reads a book. (now/present: 1-d/incomplete; 0-d/repetitive)
                                    /the meaning  and "the 1st" also
2. John reads "up"/"out"/... a book. (then/future, complete)
                                                        /the meaning and  "the 2nd" also

Both read and read "up" are present forms of the verb.

"John will read a book" is the future of "John reads a book".

There isn't " will read "up" " in that logic.

- - -

Now, the verb be in Russian has incomplete and complete forms.

The incomplete and complete forms have merged in one (true) past tense form.

/today's Russian verb does not have past tense form,
/a (one of two) past active participle (an adjective) takes that role
/бы is now erroneously called "a verbal particle used to render conditional and subjunctive mood"

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B1%D1%8B

= = =

If John_1 had  done_1, then John_2 would have done_2.

/past tense of have         / future in the past of have     
/the 1st action                   / the 2nd action

/done_1 and done_2 are past passive participles (the names of the action/state)   

-

The same (different "flavour") is in Russian.

If John be_1 done_1, then John_2 be_2 done_2.

/past incomplete of be   / past complete of be
/the 1st state (be is a state)  /the 2nd state (be is a state)

/done_1 and done_2 are past active participles (the adjectives)


= = =

subjunctive - forget about it

Donnie Brasco - Forget about it

-

Subjunctive or conditional mood in Russian
https://russianenthusiast.com/russian-grammar/verbs/subjunctive-or-conditional-mood/
« Last Edit: 02/07/2024 06:47:22 by Eddie Mars »
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Offline Eddie Mars (OP)

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Re: An English grammar for Russians, anyone?
« Reply #7 on: 02/07/2024 06:22:32 »
Hi,

Pulkina_A Short Russian Reference Grammar 1960
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HrylyFtSU4EDdQPakf53hOCjxmXhXQJZ/view?usp=sharing

page 154 of the book
The verb, General remarks

-

past active participle - Russian past tense form of the verb

in Russian

page 68 of the book

3 Колосов М.А. - Старославянская грамматика. Вып. 2- Словообразование и формы старо-славянского наречия (1868)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13FdW-g56Yf8h3VrXzwQEhwLkwO1-Ipe-/view?usp=sharing


the end
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