[acsinuk (OP)]

The latest government report into the damage the covid pandemic did to people blames the government for being unprepared. Who can ever be??
The problem was the NHS and government panicked and totally over reacted to the declaration from World Health Organisations [WHO]  advice that a pandemic was about to hit the world.
It turned out that the pandemic did not kill 20% of the world population as expected and even before any vaccines were available only 11 in 4500 people on the Diamond Cruise Ship died due to the covid

Months before vaccines were available this statistic was known only 3 in a thousand would succumb  and these were mostly elderly passengers.
To blame is WHO for not having advised everyone that this was just a new flu virus and quell the media hype that was  exaggerating the pandemic out of all proportion and panicking politicians into pointless lockdowns and economic turmoil.
Misrepresentation by NHS by sighting all cause of death as pandemic caused if the person died within 28 days of contacting covid also muddied the stats.

[paul cotter]

In the early stages no one knew how bad this disease would be but they had data from two previous new coronavirus infections, SARS and MERS. On this basis the lockdowns were entirely appropriate with caution being a priority. There was serious danger that the health system would have been overwhelmed if the virus had been let rip through the population. In addition to the quoted fatalities don't forget the "long covid " sufferers, there are thousands of people whose lives have been severely disrupted and this seems to be most associated with the initial variant.   

[alancalverd]

The UK government clearly had no plan to deal with an entirely controllable disease and preferred to ignore best advice,  play political games, and award massive contracts to Party donors and relatives. 

The British Isles are free of rabies because we impose absolute quarantine on incoming animals of other species, so why not do the same for humans who may be carrying a nasty transmissible disease with a short incubation period?

[Petrochemicals]

The UK government clearly had no plan to deal with an entirely controllable disease and preferred to ignore best advice,  play political games, and award massive contracts to Party donors and relatives. 

The British Isles are free of rabies because we impose absolute quarantine on incoming animals of other species, so why not do the same for humans who may be carrying a nasty transmissible disease with a short incubation period?

There are always lethal diseases, delending on your viewpoint. Cancer patients, transplant patients are shielding even now, but the rest of the world doesnt give a toss this time.

[paul cotter]

Alan, with the extent of air travel I would reckon the virus was already in situ before any measures were activated. Even if not the case the virus could easily have hitched a ride across the English channel, as many other unwelcome visitors do.

[Bored chemist]

The latest government report into the damage the covid pandemic did to people blames the government for being unprepared. Who can ever be??

The latest government report into the damage the covid pandemic did to people blames the government for being unprepared. Who can ever be??

A government that hadn't thrown out the previous preparations because they hadn't used them and they were expensive to maintain.
"One event in 2016 called Exercise Cygnus identified worryingly large gaps in the response and plans were put in place to update those by 2018.

But that did not happen, and by June 2020 just eight of the 22 recommendations made after that exercise had been completed."
from
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9472qxk1vo

It turned out that the pandemic did not kill 20% of the world population as expected

Had anyone expected that?

To blame is WHO for not having advised everyone that this was just a new flu virus

At times, Covid was the single biggest cause of deaths in the UK.
It outpaced road deaths, cancer, heart failure etc.
Are you saying that, since they were killing fewer than what you falsely describe as "a new flu virus" we should stop taking action to reduce those deaths?

Essentially, you don't seem to understand the facts.

The UK government clearly had no plan to deal with an entirely controllable disease and preferred to ignore best advice,  play political games, and award massive contracts to Party donors and relatives. 

The British Isles are free of rabies because we impose absolute quarantine on incoming animals of other species, so why not do the same for humans who may be carrying a nasty transmissible disease with a short incubation period?

Why not indeed?
In the "post brexit" world where we had "take3n back control", we could have, at least restricted  or quarantined people coming from places where there were particularly virulent new strains.

Except that one such place was India, and Boris couldn't take those actions because it would cripple the negotiations of a trade deal with one of the few big markets that was still prepared to talk to us.

Of course that's not teh only problem with Boris.
How many other countries had a leader who bragged about going round a hospital shaking hands with patients?

[Bored chemist]

Alan, with the extent of air travel I would reckon the virus was already in situ before any measures were activated. Even if not the case the virus could easily have hitched a ride across the English channel, as many other unwelcome visitors do.

That's a poor reason to keep on importing it...

[Bored chemist]

The UK government clearly had no plan to deal with an entirely controllable disease and preferred to ignore best advice,  play political games, and award massive contracts to Party donors and relatives. 

The British Isles are free of rabies because we impose absolute quarantine on incoming animals of other species, so why not do the same for humans who may be carrying a nasty transmissible disease with a short incubation period?

There are always lethal diseases, delending on your viewpoint. Cancer patients, transplant patients are shielding even now, but the rest of the world doesnt give a toss this time.

Holy cow!
PC has actually said something very sensible.

[paul cotter]

BC, with a contagious respiratory virus spread by aerosol, the only way to stop it is total lockdown of all international transport and immediate internment of all irregulars(ie channel boat migrants) and even then this may fail as humans are not the only species affected. PS: lot of covid in Ireland right now, the boss, our eldest daughter and myself have had it in the last few weeks. I found it relatively mild this time(3rd) as opposed to the first which was dreadful.

[Petrochemicals]

BC, with a contagious respiratory virus spread by aerosol, the only way to stop it is total lockdown of all international transport and immediate internment of all irregulars(ie channel boat migrants) and even then this may fail as humans are not the only species affected. PS: lot of covid in Ireland right now, the boss, our eldest daughter and myself have had it in the last few weeks. I found it relatively mild this time(3rd) as opposed to the first which was dreadful.

Bht why stop it, flu is every year and is perilous to any one with athsma, yet not one crap is given. Covud panic is related to the numbers of ventilators avaliable not the numbers who will pass away. There is a problem of painting one self in to a corner. If one has a vaccine to keep one self alive in the absence of such vaccine, one must consider ones own health. If vaccines where actually deleterious (an extra sylablye in that word for my appreciation) to the under 18s, about middleing to the 18-45 bracket, and beneficial to those over (Boris Johnson, Dond Trump), one has to think that the under 45 who where not vulnerable where unduly put upon (providing that they behaved accordingly)

It will happen again no doubt, we have a population that has been sustained via medical intervention (parents siblings children nieces nephews grand children neighbours friends) and without a vaccine become vunerable. Lockdowns are fine as long as the the country keeps going and opportunities are not lost.  You cannot punish the young for your position though.

[paul cotter]

Yes flu is an annual occurrence but we have a reasonably good handle on it with updated vaccines every year- not saying that it might not catch us out. Covid was new and the last new coronavirus to come out of asia was SARS which was a very serious infection that was brought under control, fortunately. Covid could easily have been as bad as SARS or worse but we did not know at the time. Don't forget it killed the doctor who got in trouble for publicising it. Do you remember the situation in the north of Italy with refrigerated trucks outside the hospitals when the morgues were overflowing? That was the scenario that the lockdowns were intended to prevent. I don't believe there is any evidence that the vaccines were harmful to certain age groups. All medications, including vaccines, have a certain risk associated with their use. A decision to medicate is always based on a benefit to risk assessment. A new pandemic is almost certain to happen, given the size of the world population together with the extent of air transport. I think the greatest risk is probably bird flu and it could be as bad as the Spanish flu or worse.

[alancalverd]

Problem with excepting children from a national quarantine is that  whilst they may not die from the disease, they can certainly carry  it and transmit it  to their elders.

The psychological problem arises from saying "lockdown", with its connotations of prison riots and punitive restriction of movement, when you mean "quarantine" - a well-tried and  entirely sensible means of limiting the spread of an infectious disease.

[alancalverd]

Even if not the case the virus could easily have hitched a ride across the English channel, as many other unwelcome visitors do.

Not likely. The only vector in Europe is humans, and it is very easy to prevent them crossing the Channel. These islands were not invaded between 1066 and 2000.

The first cases in the UK were  air travellers from China, who arrived 3 months after the epidemic had been recognised there and publicised worldwide.

[paul cotter]

Yet no one has been able to stop the boats despite saying they would.

[Petrochemicals]

Yes flu is an annual occurrence but we have a reasonably good handle on it with updated vaccines every year- not saying that it might not catch us out. Covid was new and the last new coronavirus to come out of asia was SARS which was a very serious infection that was brought under control, fortunately. Covid could easily have been as bad as SARS or worse but we did not know at the time. Don't forget it killed the doctor who got in trouble for publicising it. Do you remember the situation in the north of Italy with refrigerated trucks outside the hospitals when the morgues were overflowing? That was the scenario that the lockdowns were intended to prevent. I don't believe there is any evidence that the vaccines were harmful to certain age groups. All medications, including vaccines, have a certain risk associated with their use. A decision to medicate is always based on a benefit to risk assessment. A new pandemic is almost certain to happen, given the size of the world population together with the extent of air transport. I think the greatest risk is probably bird flu and it could be as bad as the Spanish flu or worse.

They where always planning for a flu they didnt have a vaccine for, it is the big worry, but the threshold for panic is lowered with the more medically sustained people we have, and the more you sustain a polulace the greater the polulace is. I doubt covid would have been noticed if we didnt have a flu vaccine maintaining  the populace prior too.



We also had the refrigirated containers in the uk and mass burials in the usa.

[Bored chemist]

BC, with a contagious respiratory virus spread by aerosol, the only way to stop it is total lockdown...

Do you realise that, while stopping it wasn't practical, restricting it was?
But they didn't, because a moron was in charge and didn't even turn up at meetings.
Makes you wonder what policies got that moron elected.

[Bored chemist]

Yet no one has been able to stop the boats despite saying they would.

They said they would.
They were lying.
It wasn't in their interests to do it.

[paul cotter]

Hi BC, there is a bit of crossfire going on here. My remarks about the inability of totally keeping the virus out were principally in response to Alan's suggestion to do something akin to how we have kept the British isles free of rabies. Given the impossibility of such a plan I agree fully that all we could do was restrict, restrict, restrict. Boris+covid was a dire scenario to afflict the British though we had some severe missteps here: it was decided that the populace deserved a "meaningful Christmas" and the lockdown was lifted with a quick U-turn when the hospitals were flooded with icu facilities stretched to almost breaking point. Alan objects to the "lockdown" term, we could instead "lockup".

[alancalverd]

Makes you wonder what policies got that moron elected.

The chief Tory moron is elected by 80,000 paid-up members of the Party, on the basis of whatever he/she has apparently promised them, so the answer is "tax cuts".

[alancalverd]

A previous administration was able to prevent an armed invasion (Operation Sealion) by the world's most efficient military force that had successfully invaded the rest of Europe.

I was intercepted in 1975 when sailing a registered yacht flying a British flag, which was boarded and searched for illegal immigrants, any of whom would have been immediately imprisoned along with the crew.

You need to start by taking the threat seriously and committing and equipping the Coastguard to do its job.