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  4. Can we improve the standard units of rotational quantities?

Poll

Can we improve the standard units of rotational quantities?

No. They are already perfect. Any change will only make them worse.
4 (80%)
No. They have some known problems, but there is no possible solution.
0 (0%)
Yes. They have some known problems, and there are some possible solutions.
0 (0%)
Yes. They have some known problems, and one solution can solve them all.
1 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 5

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Can we improve the standard units of rotational quantities?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #180 on: 04/02/2025 21:58:48 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/02/2025 13:53:00
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/02/2025 12:06:03
Human potential will only accelerate with AI answering questions better and faster
....or as approved by the Government of China, the Diktator of America, the Pope, or whatever nonsense is currently fashionable in cyberspace, depending on who last programmed it and how.

Beware of Arselicking Ignorance - you don't know where its tongue has been.
Using AI has its risks, costs and benefits.
Not using AI has its own risks, costs and benefits.
With open source models, you can be the one who last programs it. The results will mostly depend on your own terminal goal, your deepest beliefs, and your reasoning capabilities.
You can either accept or reject the answers from AI. But you should do that with proper reasoning.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #181 on: 04/02/2025 23:07:25 »
So it either licks your arse or someone else's, and has no means of evaluating the quality or veracity of its output.   

I can't value the opinions and prejudices of people whose motives and sources I don't know, and I'm well aware of my own. So no benefit, lots of risk, and pointless cost.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #182 on: 05/02/2025 00:18:55 »
I asked ChatGPT, What's the difference between work and torque?
Quote
The difference between work and torque lies in their fundamental definitions, physical meaning, and mathematical properties:

1. Definition

Work (W): Energy transferred when a force causes displacement.

Torque (τ): A measure of rotational force applied around an axis.


2. Mathematical Expressions

Work:


W = \mathbf{F} \cdot \mathbf{d} = F d \cos\theta

 is work (Joules)

 is force (Newtons)

 is displacement (meters)

 is the angle between force and displacement

Torque:


\tau = \mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{F} = r F \sin\theta

 is torque (Newton-meters)

 is the position vector from the axis of rotation (meters)

 is applied force (Newtons)

 is the angle between force and position vector


3. Key Conceptual Differences

4. Why the Confusion Between Work and Torque?

Both work and torque have the unit Newton-meter (N?m), but:

Work (Joule = N?m) is energy, independent of direction.

Torque (N?m) represents force applied in rotation, not energy.


5. Why Use Joules per Radian for Torque?

Work is measured in Joules (J = N?m), but torque is not energy.

Torque is better understood as energy per unit angle, so expressing it as Joules per Radian (J/rad) removes ambiguity.


Would you like additional examples to illustrate this distinction?


Note that the angle theta in those equations referred to different quantities. If theta in torque equation were also measured between force and direction of motion, the sine function must be replaced by cosine.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #183 on: 05/02/2025 00:27:52 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/02/2025 23:07:25
So it either licks your arse or someone else's, and has no means of evaluating the quality or veracity of its output.

I can't value the opinions and prejudices of people whose motives and sources I don't know, and I'm well aware of my own.
Yes you can. Compare it with other sources that you have access to. Go to libraries, use search engines, or ask competing AI models. I read somewhere that when two opponents agree on something, it's more likely to be true. At least compared to when it's agreed by two allies.
« Last Edit: 05/02/2025 00:31:16 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #184 on: 05/02/2025 01:21:04 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/02/2025 23:07:25
So no benefit, lots of risk, and pointless cost.
You can't get the benefits if you don't use it.
The risks can be identified, assessed, and mitigated accordingly, like any other aspects of life.
The cost is almost free, at least compared to the alternatives.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #185 on: 05/02/2025 10:59:37 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2025 00:27:52
Compare it with other sources that you have access to. Go to libraries, use search engines, or ask competing AI models. I read somewhere that when two opponents agree on something, it's more likely to be true. At least compared to when it's agreed by two allies.
Why should I waste time comparing an untraceable and possibly perversely generated statement with one that is obviously or provably true?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #186 on: 05/02/2025 11:01:00 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2025 01:21:04
You can't get the benefits if you don't use it.
So far, none of your AI-content posts indicated any actual benefit.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #187 on: 05/02/2025 12:01:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 05/02/2025 11:01:00
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2025 01:21:04
You can't get the benefits if you don't use it.
So far, none of your AI-content posts indicated any actual benefit.
It saved me time from browsing information from the internet.
Even before AI were as smart as now, they were already useful for cognitive offloading.
« Last Edit: 05/02/2025 15:48:34 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #188 on: 05/02/2025 22:06:18 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/02/2025 13:45:46
Which factor?
This.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ec_ek3xQvNc
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #189 on: 05/02/2025 22:11:22 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2025 01:21:04
The risks can be identified, assessed, and mitigated accordingly, like any other aspects of life.
And the best way to mitigate the risk is ....
Don't use them.

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2025 12:01:35
Even before AI were as smart as now, they were already useful for cognitive offloading.
Maybe I have more cognition than you to start with and thus less need to offload.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #190 on: 06/02/2025 02:02:16 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 05/02/2025 22:11:22
And the best way to mitigate the risk is ....
Don't use them.
You seem to forget the risks of not using them while your competitors do.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #191 on: 06/02/2025 02:05:21 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 05/02/2025 22:11:22
Maybe I have more cognition than you to start with and thus less need to offload.
That's one possibility.
Another one is that you are being overestimating/overconfident of your own cognitive capacity, thus showing a Dunning-Kruger effect.
Another possibility is that you don't have much else to do which requires significant cognitive capacity.
« Last Edit: 06/02/2025 03:19:47 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #192 on: 06/02/2025 10:07:02 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2025 01:21:04
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/02/2025 23:07:25
So no benefit, lots of risk, and pointless cost.
You can't get the benefits if you don't use it.
The risks can be identified, assessed, and mitigated accordingly, like any other aspects of life.
The cost is almost free, at least compared to the alternatives.
If you can't get benefit from using AI, it's likely that you are using it the wrong way.
Oxford Researchers Discovered How to Use AI To Learn Like A Genius
Quote

Oxford University has a guide for its students on how to use AI. Researchers have also shared prompts that will transform AI into a formidable teacher. In this video you'll see what they suggest.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:38 The Problem
01:20 How we Learn
02:25 How to Prompt ChatGPT
03:32 Thanks Boot.dev
04:55 Creating Practice Questions
05:55 Reading with AI

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #193 on: 06/02/2025 12:19:24 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/02/2025 02:05:21
Quote from: Bored chemist on 05/02/2025 22:11:22
Maybe I have more cognition than you to start with and thus less need to offload.
That's one possibility.
Another one is that you are being overestimating/overconfident of your own cognitive capacity, thus showing a Dunning-Kruger effect.
Another possibility is that you don't have much else to do which requires significant cognitive capacity.
Fortunately, there are other mechanisms by which we can assess my cognitive ability.
For example, I have posted here 30765 times and have been thanked for 1252 of those posts - that's a  crude "hit rate" of about 4.1%

You, for comparison, have posted 10298 times and been thanked for 285 of those. That's a  crude "hit rate" of about 2.8%

There are other observations, such as the fact that I studied chemistry at one of the worlds foremost universities and had a career as a scientist.
And also, I don't trust a system which can't count the Rs in "strawberry".

The DK effect works both ways.




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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #194 on: 06/02/2025 12:21:59 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/02/2025 10:07:02
Oxford Researchers Discovered How to Use AI To Learn Like A Genius
And here's what Oxford says about AI and plagiarism.

"Use of Artificial Intelligence (AI) tools
The candidate may use AI tools to assist in researching application materials, but any submitted documents must be written by the candidate, and any text that is not the candidate?s own should be appropriately referenced. "

I think many of your posts would fail the " written by the candidate" condition.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/applying-to-oxford/university-policies/plagiarism
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #195 on: 06/02/2025 12:42:30 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/08/2024 16:59:46
Whether the unit of torque is Nm or Nm/rad depends on which distance we are using. We need to recognize that are two distinct kind of distance used here: the radius and the arc length of rotation.
In the former, the multiplication between force and distance is a cross product, while in the later it's a dot product.
Thus, we can avoid confusion by distinguishing the type of products being used. That would give us the unit of torque as N x m, or N.m/rad.

To calculate the work done in Joule, both cases must be multiplied by the angle of rotation. In both cases, the result is N.m.
By definition, torque is meant to express rotational force. The conversion factor from linear to rotational force is arc length per rotational angle. In SI unit, it's meter per radian. The numerical value happens to be identical to radius of rotation when the rotational angle is expressed in radian.
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #196 on: 06/02/2025 12:58:08 »
A good textbook on physics will thrash AI generated output.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #197 on: 06/02/2025 13:20:04 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 06/02/2025 12:19:24
Fortunately, there are other mechanisms by which we can assess my cognitive ability.
For example, I have posted here 30765 times and have been thanked for 1252 of those posts - that's a  crude "hit rate" of about 4.1%

You, for comparison, have posted 10298 times and been thanked for 285 of those. That's a  crude "hit rate" of about 2.8%
In many situations, quality is better than quantity. What kind of posts did you get the thank for?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 21/11/2024 11:06:40
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/11/2024 21:32:54
ChatGPT's answer to my question
Why are you still asking ChatGPT and wasting bandwidth with it?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #198 on: 06/02/2025 13:24:52 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 06/02/2025 12:21:59
I think many of your posts would fail the " written by the candidate" condition.
I didn't post AI's answers as if they were mine.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #199 on: 06/02/2025 13:26:11 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 06/02/2025 12:19:24
And also, I don't trust a system which can't count the Rs in "strawberry".
I don't either. Perhaps you used an outdated version.
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