[OldDragon]

Well, after getting soaked to the skin today and sinking into a foot of mud and slurry, and whilst only daring to wear my walking boots rather than wellies after that latest, nasty bout of phlebitis, I am about to take a pair of strong, sharp scissors to my wellies! Am aiming to cut away the area that causes direct pressure on the varicose vein that is regularly affected by phlebitis. Although that has almost recovered now, there are still a few hard, lumpy areas present to the touch, and I don't want to cause it to be kicked off again.

[OldDragon]

Andrew, I posted the following on a Welsh forum that I belong to, please let me know if I have missed anything out, as someone there asked me what IBT stood for because I'd mentioned it in a post and in passing...

Original question: What's IBT, never heard of the abbreviation '

IBT stands for Inclined Bed Therapy. It was discovered by medical researcher and engineer, Andrew K Fletcher and back in the 1990s. However, his idea was dismissed simply because it appears to fly in the face of the previous beliefs on the part of the medical text books about how the circulatory system works. Andrew discovered that, instead of the heart being solely responsible for pumping our blood around the system, gravity also played a vital part, and especially in removing toxins and solutes from the blood, and removing these from the body via the kidneys and urine.

For a long time, I have had problems with varicose veins and oedema, and periodic bouts of phlebitis, so when, a few months ago, I discovered a study was being done on The Naked Scientists forum - see this link: Varicose Veins & IBT Study - I followed some of the links shown there, and realised that this could also help a long term back problem that I have, and other conditions, too.

Andrew agreed that I could join in the study group, and I spoke with my doctor about it too. My doctor said he couldn't see any reason why I shouldn't join in, but to expect my oedema and varicose veins to get worse! This because instead of raising the legs, one sleeps at a 5 degree angle and with the legs lower than the head. Well, he was astonished to see the difference himself, because my oedema disappeared within days! My calves were measured prior to commencing IBT and after, and they reduced in size by as much as 5cms - about 2.5"!

I also started to get decent quality, restorative sleep almost immediately, which is something I've not experienced for years! Indeed, due to my back problem, and a natural chemical reaction that it seems to cause when flaring, very often I would go for days or even weeks at a time without any sleep at all, or just brief periods of dozing, and when in a sitting position, because often the back would not even allow me to assume a prone position.

Other benefits include a lowering of blood pressure - and a friend (aged 58 and in Wales) who was recently told by his doctor that his BP was so dangerously high that he could die at any moment, commenced IBT and with almost immediate benefits! His BP, and without medication, has now reduced consistently to a range between 130/75 and 120/70, and sometimes as low as 110/65! His doctor was stunned by this result!

Now that I have been doing IBT for a couple of months, I am beginning to notice improvements in my back problem. This I was told likely wouldn't be noticeable for four to eight months, and mainly because there are two conditions that affect my spine. In the lumbar region, I have osteoarthritis, and there I have noticed a lessening of the pain in that region. In fact, sometimes I realise I don't even have that dull ache that never seemed to go away at all! Higher up, and in the thoracic region, I've been affected by periods of severe inflammation and pain, including severe muscle spasms (like electric shocks) that can sometimes have a paralysing effect and make breathing difficult and also affects the use of my hands and arms. After many years, that has finally been diagnosed as arachnoiditis, and after those medically qualified people following the IBT trial recognised the symptoms and alerted me to mention it to my doctor, when all the pointers over the years suddenly fell into place! Whatever, there has definitely been a lessening of the incidents of inflammation and therefore muscle spasms and their strength since commencing IBT. (Also my need to take medication to address thesee!) I have also started to lose some weight at last, and had been really struggling to do that for years, and largely because I wasn't able to exercise much at all - and now I can (to some degree) and without aggravating the back!

There are lots of conditions that IBT can help to improve, and quality of life is not the least amongst them! The best of it is, it is virtually free! Raising the head end of the bed just 6" can be achieved with a couple of breeze blocks - even recycled ones! In my case, and because of the type of legs on my bed-settee, I chose to have wooden blocks made with a hollowed out section in them that would hold the bed's legs securely in place, and those cost me just £30! A price well worth paying for the improvement in my sleep quality alone, and because now I have energy again, and feel really quite well! (This even despite undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer during much of the time I've been doing the IBT trial!)

If you think it could help you, why not just try it? Beg a couple of old breeze blocks from a builder, wrap them in old towels to protect you carpet or flooring, and raise the HEAD end of your bed by 6". Do make sure that you drink plenty of fluids too, and so that you don't become dehydrated as the solutes and toxins are removed from your body. IBT provides quite a powerful detox to the system and you may well find yourself popping to the bathroom on a more regular basis. If you find yourself slipping down the bed a bit, wrap an extra duvet around the mattress and under the sheet to provide some extra comfort and friction, also don't sleep in pants that could cut into the groin a bit, and do remove any footboard from the bed to avoid pressure on the feet. You can always add a throw over the end of the bed to keep your feet warm if the poke out a bit, but one thing I have really noticed, is that my previously cold feet (due to poor circulation) are now like toast!

There are a huge number of medical conditions that can benefit from IBT, including heart conditions, sleep apnoea, breathing problems, spinal problems, arthritis, MS, circulatory problems, skin conditions, and so on.

So far the only person amongst those friends whom I've recommended it to to complain about its benefits, is a chap who has suddenly started getting early morning erections on a regular basis, and after years of having a problem in that department!  Others that have discovered this same thing don't see to consider it a problem at all - at least, not one they cannot deal with!  In fact, it's been quite a handy thing when it comes to couples where the wife may have had leg problems and the husband being reluctant to raise their bed just for his wife's benefit! Fit people trying it, have noticed that they wake feeling more refreshed and energetic, and young, fit couples, tell me that yes, it does seem to improve their love lives too! (Well, haven't the Welsh always been a pasionate race?  [] )

If you think there's anything that I might need to add, or have missed out anything important, please let me know, thanks.  []

[alun006]

Hi Old Dragon

I must say, i am impressed with your write up on i.b.t. (Hope Andrew thinks the same.)

Well when i read the bit about wearing tight clothes in the groin area, i can not stress that i have had probs from this.

Please learn by my mistake, as this was pointed out at the start by andrew. I had complained of a blow-out in the groin area, which i thought was a lymph node swelling.  Anyway i talked to andrew and he mentioned that i may be experiencing a night wedge effect,that could have also been causing the blow out aswell.

Now i did take this on board, but made the mistake of accessing my activite in bed when i was awake.

I feel a bit silly now, as i was experiencing a discomfort in that area which would sometimes be a problem and other times it was not.

This looking back was due to my positioning in bed not always being the same.

I am so glad that the penny dropped and i rectified this problem.  Within the first night of doing commando, i am not getting this discomfort and hope to see the blow out at the top of my leg decrease now.

Sometimes new things can be misunderstood, but i am glad i relised whot was happening. and am now feeling much better.

(How i thought i could access the activities of my sleeping position when i was awake, i do not know  LOL)

(Feeling slightly silly) alun

[geordiejulie]

Hi Andrew,

I am Aluns wife (I must have sinned in a previous life!)
I have recently started on IBT and just wanted to post a few of the observations I have made over the past three weeks.
Firstly I have to say that if anyone was a cynic to this process it would have been me, like a lot of people we are all programmed like robots to believe that whatever a medical professional tells us must be right, so the idea that you should sleep inclined in the opposite direction to that which is conventional was a mystery to me.  Alun began this process about 3 months ago and I have closely watched his progress.  I have to say that the bed looked very uncomfortable but he stuck with it and has gained so much from this process.  I have seen him gain confidence, a definate improvement in his varicose veins but above all he no longer has constant pains in his legs and this is something that has bothered him for some 30 years.
It was this that persuaded me to give it a go. 

I am fortunate to have little medical problems but a brief description would be;

Asthma
Lower back pain
Pain in left hip on walking distance
Disturbed sleep patterns
Some spider veins

Now out of these the lower back pain has got to be the worst. In 2005 we purchased a very good quality bed, our excuse was 'look after your back you spend a lot of time in bed'
Well the back pain began and has continued everynight since. 

Since beginning the IBT I have to say, and this is an honest evaluation, I have slept like a baby, it is complete bliss and definately not uncomfortable. 
I wake up pain free almost every morning and this is a huge improvement. I used to hold back from drinking before bed because I knew I would definately be up during the night, now this is not the case.  I can drink as much as I like and not wake up. 

I am drinking a lot more, sometimes 3 litres of liquid(not tea or coffee) in a day. 
I still get the pain in hips on walking a distance but I genuinely dont suffer for 2-3 days afterwards as I used to.
I definately feel more energetic.
I have not noticed a significant difference in my asthma yet but this is difficult as it is worse during summer months or when I have a cold.

In the first few days I had really bad heads and spots and I can only assume that these symptoms were caused by the amount of toxins that were being flushed from my body at that time.  The odd morning I will wake up with a headache that is similar to that you would have after a real good night out.  On these mornings I know that I must drink alot more and this clears.
I have felt tingles/nerve flutters in my legs and sometimes hands, more in the first week, but still occasionally.
My period normally follows the same pattern, though not always regular. As well as the usuall mood swings etc, I will have back ache for a couple of days before hand and restless sleep, stomach ache for the first day, then I will have a headache for a day or so after the end of my period. This last one though came without any warning, and this is something that has only ever happened on one other occasion. Dont know at the minute whether this is good or not. 
I have not noticed any significant change with the spider veins but I know it is early days and to me this is not that important.

Overall, I can honestly say I feel alot healthier,  I have more energy,  I sleep so much better and dont regret it at all. I would definately reccomend it and urge people to try it. I am amazed that simply adjusting the angle of your bed can make such a difference.

Thanks Andrew!

[Tezzab4]

I hope I'm not too late to join this study as well.  I have varicose veins and was looking up natural alternatives to the conventional therapies as I would rather fix the parts in my body than just remove them and still be none the wiser.  Anyhow I came across Andrew Fletcher's ideas and am willing to try them out and document my experiment if it could help anyone else.  I have already seen a specialist about getting the veins removed but especially after already having an operation in my teens am a little wary about removing any more "redundant" body parts.  It's getting late now so I'll join in the discussion when I'm more alert. 

Before I go should I use any natural herbal medicines like Horse chestnut or should I refrain for the length of the study as this could compromise the results?

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Tezzab4

Thank you and “your not too late” to join the study, in fact we need quite a few more people to join us to confirm these results. Finding people willing to try this is painfully slow unfortunately, but with a little perseverance we should get there in the end.

If you could share photographs of your veins before using IBT, using photobucket or another online host to link the pictures to the thread so we can see any changes as and when they take place by comparing before and after pictures as Alun has shown it would be very helpful.

If you have edema / oedema then some measurements of your legs would prove useful to determine if this improves using IBT or not.

Heart rate blood pressure, respiration rate would be great too if possible. Maybe your doctor could measure these and give you the results?

If you have any other problems you feel may be worth monitoring, please make a list and give a brief description, for example: You may snore, have sleep problems, cold feet and hands in bed, laboured respiration, sinus problems, anything that is troubling you make a note so that we have a bench mark before you begin.

RE: Herbal remedies. You could include how long you have been taking them or using them on the skin and add a note about whether they have worked or are working so that they can be taken into account if you feel you want to continue using them.

Glad you have found our study

Regards

Andrew

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

geordiejulie

Thank you for your post relating to your own observations and your observations with Alun's legs, pain and general well-being.

All of the conditions you list have been reported to improve by other people over the years, so we can confidently predict that most of these should resolve in due course.

It was also interesting that you should notice changes in your monthly cycle, and I suspect this will continue.

Your post was a breath of fresh air for our study and is indicative that we are going to see many more changes that echo those from pilot studies into various conditions.

Your observation with tingling nerves is also interesting and reminds me of my many years of research and study into neurological conditions, including multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injury and Parkinson’s disease. These tingling pains were usually a precursor to significant recovery from neurological losses. Increase spasm was another indicator in these conditions. That’s another avenue for research later.

Keeping the study simple is difficult when so many important changes are taking place, it becomes difficult not to thunder off in another direction just to feed a hungry mind.

I have a feeling we are in for some real surprises over the coming months, providing we can find more people to join our study of course.

Please keep making notes and dating any observations as and when they happen and please come back and let us know about any changes you observe.

Some things to watch out for.

Changes in finger nails, half moons, quality, strength, shine, and general health in the nails. Changes in hair colour thickness, strength, body. Changes in your face even so taking a few pictures and comparing them to older pictures may reveal improvements in skin tone and muscle tone.

Do your hands and feet feel warmer now your bed is tilted? Do you feel less cold in bed?

Hangover is a good one, though not for one minute you put this to the test. Myself and others have reported that hangovers are not as troublesome on IBT.

Andrew

PS have updated the first post in this thread to include research from NASA

[Tezzab4]

Right I'm back.  I'm going to display 3 pics.  2 of my left leg which appears to be much worse than my right and 1 a brown patch on my right in the front of my calf which has not disappeared.  This is indicative (IMO) of the brown staining that often occurs with varicose veins but may not be so evident from the photo but if u look closely u can see on the left leg it's browner the closer u get to the ankle.

Unfortunately these are actually after 3 nights of IBT as I didn't realise a study was still going as I was still scouting info on net when I started.  I have only raised the bed 4 inches so far but I will raise it a further couple of inches today. 

My calves have a circumference of 465 mm L & 467 mm R.

I have had my veins stripped when I was about 17 so I don't know how this will affect anything.  I won't use any herbal supplements for 4 weeks at least and haven't been using any for at least a month.   

Andrew I have read recently about ppl adding salt and minerals to their water which had gone through a reverse osmosis system and one saying that their vv have improved as a result.  Is salt good or bad for the circulation and do you have suggestions on the amounts. I remember reading something about the water cure where they add salt to their water as well.

Can you actually blow veins out through excessive intra-abdominal pressure because I am sure I've done it through lifting weights?

thank you,
Tezza

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Tezza

Great job of the pictures. These will prove useful in a few weeks time for comparison. 3 days of IBT at a lower angle of elevation should not have changed the appearance of the veins that much.
You are obviously the best judge of this.

Calf measurements good move also, though looking at your photographs you don’t appear to have oedema so the measurements won’t change as much as a person with oedema, but should prove interesting.

The surgery you had at 17 did it improve the outcome for you?

And did the herbal remedies you were taking have any affect?

Dissolved salts and sugars according to this new theory on circulation is what drives it and maintains the body. Modern diets often have excessive salt in them already, usually sodium chloride. Substituting the type of salt you use may improve your health.

We drink filtered rainwater now at home, apart from tasting like water should taste, it has very little (if any) mineral dissolved in it and as a result should act as a blood thinner over time without using any medication. Distilled water in desert countries has this effect on the blood.

Drinking more water would be a smart move on IBT as the angled bed does cause more solute to enter the bladder via the improved renal filtration, causing a detox from the blood.

RE venous Blowouts: It is highly probable that this may have happened. Alun reported a blowout observation that we now think was caused by his use of a support stocking and possibly aggravated by wearing under pants on an inclined bed as they pulled up into the groin area. Something others have noticed.

I had a blowout haemorrhoid while stupidly lifting a commercial sunbed down a flight of stairs with me at the top and two people at the bottom. My legs were spread wide due to the huge sunbed and I felt the vein blow out leaving me with an unpleasant bulge in the worst place you could get one. Thankfully this presents no problem for me any more.  Your question re blowouts is a valid point.

Could you take some higher res pictures also?

Thanks Tezza

[Tezzab4]

Andrew,

Thanks for your reply.  I would have liked to have taken the pics at the start obviously as I feel that my legs are less tired and achy as they usually are (even after 3 days) and any swelling that I may have had may have gone down.  The leg with the most veins does not have the extent of discolouration that the other one does which I think is caused by leakage from the veins.   

The surgery was for the most part successful in that the veins I did have were more bulbous and torturous and they did go for the most part.  After I got married I put on weight which probably affected their reappearance and I around 1996 noticed the staining of my calves more so on the right leg. 

I don't look at my legs much so I can't really tell from appearance whether horse chestnut helped and did no measurements but I did notice my legs were no longer as tired and sore.  I have heard that there might be some side affects to horse chestnut so sometimes I switch it with Paroven.  Usually I take nothing as I am concerned about side affects and haven't really gotten into the habit of taking them although at one time I did for about 8 wks.

The blowout occurred after I was deadlifting about 120 kg.  I felt something and looked down to where I felt something and saw the "blowout" which is that vein spider vein thing just in the inside of my leg above the knee.  I did lift heavier weights a few years earlier so it might have been because I hadn't done any exercise for a while.  It might be better to only train one limb at a time to get around this limitation of increased intra-abdominal pressure.     

I still have the higher resolution pics but thought they would be too big to post them here.  I'm not really familiar with linking them either as I've seen some people do.  I'll have to play around with this forum posting options and will include them when I post some more pics in a weeks time. 

What is your opinion on the best exercise for varicose veins?  Would it be walking?  Some ppl have suggested that their veins become more engorged after exercise. 

cheers,
Tezza

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Best exercise for varicose veins could be sleeping on an inclined bed, Exercising on an inclined bed even better! Making sure you don’t sit on cold hard surfaces, including the loo seat for too long as this restricts the size of the veins causing them to inflate more. (Odd how old wives tails have merit) Cycling, not sure about as constant pressure on saddle may exacerbate the veins, though this is an assumption on my part has having no evidence to support this.

Walking gets a big thumbs up! Though standing in one position for a long time could also cause the veins to swell due again to restricting vessels on the bottom of the foot. This also explains why people pass out while standing in cues, on guard duty, at weddings and funerals. Often portrayed as amusing there is I am sure a connection between this and stroke, maybe a precursor warning someone of their blood pressure problem?

Thinking about your mentioning of drinking reverse osmosis water. It could be beneficial having less solutes in the blood as this would make the blood more aggressive at dissolving / absorbing arterial deposits. Also thinner blood should reduce pressure inside the veins and areteries.

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Re: Inclined sleep
From: Brenda and Dick
Sent:
10 October 2008 00:13:34
To:
Andrew K Fletcher

Feel free to post my previous notes from June.
We are still happily using IBT to control my GERD-related night-time cough and recurrent sinusitis, both of which completely disappeared with the use of the inclined bed. (although I have had to remain on Nexium for daytime GERD symptoms.) Both of us are 67 and we do not have  varicose veins or leg swelling problems; that may be due to the IBT, who knows? I lower the bed when I change the bedding, and if I forget to raise it before bedtime, we notice the difference immediately. We definitely sleep better the inclined way. Thanks, Andrew. Brenda

Inclined sleep
From: Brenda and Dick

Sent:
07 June 2006 16:03:46
To:
Andrew K Fletcher

    You, my dear, have done a very good thing in sharing your inclined sleep theory on the world-side web.  It inspired me to seek a good solution to trying your suggestions. 
    Six nights sleeping on the inclined bed at about 4" & it is absolutely amazing.  I am sleeping much more soundly & longer each night. Previously, I slept 3-5 hours max, but I am routinely sleeping 7-9 hours.  I can't even begin to explain why!  Most  of the symptoms & pain related to my GERD have gone away; I am still taking the Nexium and will continue it for a few weeks before doing a trial without.  I wake up with no aching joints, no stiff neck, and warm feet - for the first time in my 65 years of adult life.   In addition, the night time swelling in my husband's feet and legs has improved dramatically. 
       I am encouraging my son and daughter-in-law to replace their own bedslats, since she suffers from untreated sleep apnea, as well as spinal compression problems. They will have to delay the purchase a bit as my son is undergoing extensive surgery next week and I think he would have difficulty getting on and off the bed post-operatively. But maybe in a few months...
    Again, thank you, thank you  for the creative and original thinking and may your study be remarkable!  Brenda Parker


Re: RE: How is the inclined sleep study going?
 
Sent:
06 June 2006 12:26:54
To:
Andrew K Fletcher

Cc:

Yes, we are interested in participating in your study, although we are not dealing with any spinal cord disease.   The conditions for which we are seeking relief by using the inclined sleep are sleep apnea, reflux disease and associated medical complications, including early lung changes.
 After only 5 nights using the inclined sleep, there is dramatic improvement in both of those conditions; we will be interested to see if this continues. 
We are strongly encouraging our 30 year old daughter who has MS to try the therapy.
Thanks for your intriguing theory & project. Brenda

[Tezzab4]

I took some photo's in the weekend but with much different lighting conditions and the angles are different so with such small and subtle differences which I would expect it would be hard to compare.  Tomorrow I will take photos inside and try to take them from the same angle and distance as to make better comparisons.

I will say that the tiredness and soreness that normally occurs at the end of the day is much reduced so much so that on a day when I am not working (standing for the most part) I can hardly notice it at all and those days that I am working it is lessened considerably.

I wonder if anyone knows what is the best way to sit at the computer.  Right now I am resting my legs on about a 20 degree slope on an exercise ball.  Is this any good?

Does increasing the lung capacity have a significant increase on circulation because there is more surface area to help with the evaporation?

There seems to be exercise which lowers blood pressure mainly aerobic and then there is exercise like heavy weight lifting which seems to increase blood pressue.  I recall reading something about how the 2 types of exercise affect intra-occular eye pressure.  Ok I've just come across some info on how the Valsalva effect might be the reason why blood pressure increases.  I think I will need to read up more on it.

CIAO,
Tezza   

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Alun

Your photographs prove beyond any shadow of doubt that IBT reduces venous pressure causing the veins to normalise in size. They are indeed truly remarkable photographs, considering that doctors and surgeons believe that raising the head end of the bed will cause the blood to pool and the veins to swell leading to oedema.

I have waited a long time to find a way of showing this effect while remaining on the inclined bed, not having varicose veins myself it has been difficult to find people who will provide photographic evidence.

If we compare your recent photographs with the first photograph you took prior to tilting your bed we can see a phenomenal difference in the varicose veins.

So if you can select the edit tab to your post and add the first photograph for comparison it will leave people in no doubt as to the efficacy of IBT for this condition.

Your knee pain and varicose vein pains are now as you state, have greatly improved, less painful and considerably less frequent than before, again indicating that there may be more to IBT than one would realise in a VV study.

As the veins remain relaxed and normalised over night, the veins should contract and resist internal pressures more. This is a gradual process and may take many more months in your case due to the severity of the swelling in the veins, before they sink to skin level completely.

You mentioned this is happening with the varicose blow out from the vein in your groin and that it has changed, becoming far less obvious now. Again great news Alun, thank you for mentioning this in our chat on MSN.

There are doctors and surgeons monitoring this thread. Would it be possible to get some comments from you?

Andrew

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Tezza

Thats good news about your tiredness and discomfort. This should improve more over the next 2 weeks.

Can't wait for the photographs too.

Re Sitting posture: Bottoms up is the way to go. Phrase coined by John Simkins formerly manager of the MSRC charity. It means making sure at all times your bottom is higher than your knees and that your legs slope down most of the time.

There are wedge cushions available from Ebay and other suppliers for next to no money. Sitting on one now

Alun has just ordered one. These are good for driving long distances too and more to the point, we now understand why people find them so comfortable.

IBT causes the lungs to inflate and therefore deflate more, as you say this increases the capacity of the lungs so would increase the gas exchange too and therefore would definitely increase circulation so long as our circulation is aligned to the direction of gravity.

[alun006]

Hi Andrew

I will add the photo that i took before ibt, but they where taken when i was standing up. will that be alright to compare with the vv photo's when lieing down on i.b.t.

Sorry, just wanted to give the right results over.

I am still getting the knee pain (but only occasionally), but andrew if you compare 1-2 a fortnight compared to whot was 6-8 times a fortnight. as a example, the road to fully sorting out the problem is near.

And as i mentioned on a previous thread, i went on a 10.5 mile hike and did not get a sign of the pain till 5 days after.

Tezza
You have the right idea about photos, and picking the right light to compare. It is great you are now on i.b.t

alun006

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

The idea of showing the photograph standing and laying on an inclined bed is so people looking to the IBT photographs can easily understand how tilting the bed so that the feet are lower than the head produces more beneficial results than standing. The picture also shows that the current accepted literature predictions on what according to doctors, nurses and surgeons believe will happen is completely wrong!

There is no pooling, No swollen veins, No decrease in circulation, The heart does not have to work harder and works at a decreased rate than when on a flat bed.

It was very important to obtain these photographs in order to prove this to those that think this therapy is too simple it can’t possibly have an affect.

Showing your legs before you tilted the bed also allows people to determine the differences between standing and sleeping on IBT.

Thanks for correcting me on the knee pain being still a problem but less frequent and less painful , I have altered my post to state this correctly

Thanks again Alun

Hi Andrew

I will add the photo that i took before ibt, but they where taken when i was standing up. will that be alright to compare with the vv photo's when lieing down on i.b.t.

Sorry, just wanted to give the right results over.

I am still getting the knee pain (but only occasionally), but andrew if you compare 1-2 a fortnight compared to whot was 6-8 times a fortnight. as a example, the road to fully sorting out the problem is near.

And as i mentioned on a previous thread, i went on a 10.5 mile hike and did not get a sign of the pain till 5 days after.

Tezza
You have the right idea about photos, and picking the right light to compare. It is great you are now on i.b.t

alun006

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Alun

Thanks for the photographs. We were waiting for reports from other people trying this method. I know there are others and we would all find it useful if you could share your own experiences with the forum. Even better if you can add a few photographs of before and after IBT.

If you are reading this thread and decide to try it please take some photographs of your varicose veins and / or oedema before you go ahead so that comparisons can be made over time.

Andrew

[alun006]

Hi Andrew

I have been experiencing some pain, on the back of my thigh recently. It was thought to be The fact i have been getting anxious about the business and other matters at the moment, and this was causing me to tighten the muscles on the back of my thigh, as well as in the groin area.

I also mentioned the lump bulge near my groin, that had decreased from popping out the skin, but could still be felt.

I was examend by the doctor, in the areas i have pointed out above.

The doctor said he would send me for a ultra sound, just to be on the safe side.

I went to the ultra sound expecting everything to be pretty straight forward, he examined my groin and inguinal area, then ask about the bulge on my right hand side, and started to examine this with the ultra sound tool.

I ask him if everything was alright. When he looked at the screen, he said that it looked like i had a aneurysm in that area.   immediately i felt concerned, and asked him about it.  Nothing much more was said, except that normally drug users get them in that area, at my age when they inject themselves. I was told that it was nothing to worry about, and to make a appointment with my GP for the results.

Now i have never been involved with drug injecting activity before, i am not the age that this normally happens to.   To say i am worried is a under estimation.

I wanted to know if you could give any comment on whot has happened here, should i be so worried.  I just wanted a bit support, and in site into whot is happening with my vein.

Many Thanks alun006

[Karen W.]

High Blood pressure could make it worse.. so watch your blood pressure and do see the doctor.. The wall of the artery is thin in that location and the pressure of your blood has increased in that area where your artery has become thin and distended,, this can make it weak when the blood pressure is high.. at least thats how the doctor explained my aneurysms to me. I have two in my Aorta both ascending and descending sides ... Large one in the descending side fixing to have to be repaired...

Technicians cannot confirm or elaborate your Doctor will need to do that to confirm diagnosis. Be calm... my doctor said no lifting.. and such to bring pressure up.. your doctor will elaborate for you it may be different procedures with a leg!

Although he did say that it is an inherited trait.. some families carry.. ( Aneurysms that is.. arteries that have thin spots in the walls can develop these aneurysms when Blood pressure gets to high over long periods of time...

I have never used drugs and am 48 years old too.. so am in the same boat.. but I do of congenital heart problems etc... so Blood pressure these days is a problem.. See the doctor and be calm it is definitely an understatement and I know exactly how you feel!