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So I understand the Michelson–Morley experiment and its result. I do not question the results of the experiment. I have no problem with Special Relativity. The result of this discovery on its surface does seem to defy common sense. It is the independence of the speed of light from other objects in motion that I believe needs a good solid mechanical explanation.
It's the wave nature of matter. Robert Close explained it well in The Other Meaning of Special Relativity. In a nutshell, we use the motion of waves to define our second and our metre, and then use them to measure the motion of waves. So we always measure the motion of waves to be the same.
There's a tautology here, which Magueijo and Moffat described in http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4507.
This is a misrepresentation of the tautology that the authors describe. The authors are quite clear that the tautology is an apparent product of the commitment to relationships within the physical theory that are testable and thus falsifiable. The paper actually investigates what it means for the speed of light to vary and does so in a manner that preserves the idea that there is no secret frame of reference. It is not the first time that Mr. Duffield has misrepresented that paper.
So I understand the Michelson–Morley experiment and its result. I do not question the results of the experiment. I have no problem with Special Relativity. The result of this discovery on its surface does seem to defy common sense. It is the independence of the speed of light from other objects in motion that I believe needs a good solid mechanical explanation. I would like to see what everyone here has to say about this question. I have my own ideas but will not say them as I do not want to violate the rules of the forum. If it is permitted and desired I will give my idea otherwise I would really like to hear from experts as to what the currently excepted explanation is.
I'm thus confused at why they abandoned the aether since this logic should account for the Michelson-Morley experiment. That is, you should EXPECT that the Michelson-Morley experiment SHOULD not be able to pick up the actual background aether because every part of the apparatus is affected in all directions...
What error? What other thread? I haven't misrepresented anything, and I didn't say anything about one secret reference frame. What Magueijo and Moffat said is there for all to see:"Following Ellis [1], let us first consider c as the speed of the photon. Can c vary? Could such a variation be measured? As correctly pointed out by Ellis, within the current protocol for measuring time and space the answer is no. The unit of time is defined by an oscillating system or the frequency of an atomic transition, and the unit of space is defined in terms of the distance travelled by light in the unit of time. We therefore have a situation akin to saying that the speed of light is “one light-year per year”, i.e. its constancy has become a tautology or a definition."This tautology is as I described: we use the motion of light to define our second and our metre, then we use them to measure the motion of light.
Note that the Einstein digital papers are publically available too:
Also see this Baez article: Is The Speed of Light Everywhere the Same? I stand by what I said. I stand by my attempts to educate. For some reason some people seem to object to my references to Einstein and other authors.
Einsteins special relativity has the clock paradox problem and therefore it is false. The Doppler answers have no clock paradox problem and therefore the electrical engineering professors have a better answer but the adaptable photon is the best answer as far as I am concerned.
Quote from: Scott Mayers on 02/07/2016 11:57:56I'm thus confused at why they abandoned the aether since this logic should account for the Michelson-Morley experiment. That is, you should EXPECT that the Michelson-Morley experiment SHOULD not be able to pick up the actual background aether because every part of the apparatus is affected in all directions...Einstein said the luminiferous aether was unnecessary in 1905, but in 1920 he was talking about space as the aether of general relativity, see the Einstein digital papers.
Please note the tactic that Mr. Duffield just used here, as he does in so many places: quotation mining, also known as cherry-picking a quotation...
Quote from: PhysBang on 02/07/2016 15:53:10Please note the tactic that Mr. Duffield just used here, as he does in so many places: quotation mining, also known as cherry-picking a quotation...This guy is a stalker and a troll. I don't quote-mine, I educate.
For example, see this Wikipedia article:Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel Laureate in Physics, endowed chair in physics, Stanford University, had this to say about ether in contemporary theoretical physics: "It is ironic that Einstein's most creative work, the general theory of relativity, should boil down to conceptualizing space as a medium when his original premise [in special relativity] was that no such medium existed [..] The word 'ether' has extremely negative connotations in theoretical physics because of its past association with opposition to relativity. This is unfortunate because, stripped of these connotations, it rather nicely captures the way most physicists actually think about the vacuum. . . . Relativity actually says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of matter pervading the universe, only that any such matter must have relativistic symmetry. [..] It turns out that such matter exists. About the time relativity was becoming accepted, studies of radioactivity began showing that the empty vacuum of space had spectroscopic structure similar to that of ordinary quantum solids and fluids. Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness. It is filled with 'stuff' that is normally transparent but can be made visible by hitting it sufficiently hard to knock out a part. The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether. But we do not call it this because it is taboo.[9]"
Quote from: jerrygg38 on 02/07/2016 09:57:59 Einsteins special relativity has the clock paradox problem and therefore it is false. The Doppler answers have no clock paradox problem and therefore the electrical engineering professors have a better answer but the adaptable photon is the best answer as far as I am concerned.No, Special Relativity has no paradoxes. There are cranks who misunderstand the nature of SR and cannot do the math properly and so do not understand how the theory works. Note that without changing rates of time, one cannot get the physics to work out properly. Thus even those theories with a secret true reference frame also have the same "paradoxes" as Special Relativity or they fail to match our observations.
To the OP and others, I think this question is valid, especially in attempting to determine what specific interpretation is meant. I completely understand Einstein's Special Relativity but am not sure if others have sold it to us correctly when popularizing it. The major hurdle I has was in interpreting reference frames. perception of the moving observer.
The speed of light is constant because the speed of light is the ground state of the universe. In our universe, there is a net movement of matter to energy, and not energy to matter. All the forces of nature move potential in this direction. Energy is like a terminal product that exists at the lower potential side of force; ground state. As an analogy, the speed of light is analogous to sea level. Sea level is a common place where all the water on the surface of the earth flows. Sea level is the same no matter if the water begins in the atmosphere, clouds, mountains, valleys, rivers, lakes, etc. Each unique starting place or reference, will imply a different potential with sea level (red and blue shift) but sea level or C-level is always the same, for all references. For example, at the speed of light space-time will contract to a point-instant. Gravity is a process by which matter attempts to go back to C-level. Gravity, via General relativity will cause space-time to contract in the general direction of the point-instant reference of light. This is most closely approximated with a black hole. Even the expansion of the universe is heading back to C-level. Since the inertial universe will appears contracted to a point-instant at the speed of light, then only infinite wavelength can be seen. Wavelengths smaller that infinite will appears as a fraction of the point, which is not mathematically possible, since a point is defined as the smallest unit. The red shift is moving all photons in the general direction of infinite wavelength; heading back to C-level. The confusion is we live on earth and it is easier to make the earth a relative ground state for the universe. Only the speed of light is the same for all.
Quote from: Scott Mayers on 02/07/2016 11:57:56I'm thus confused at why they abandoned the aether since this logic should account for the Michelson-Morley experiment. That is, you should EXPECT that the Michelson-Morley experiment SHOULD not be able to pick up the actual background aether because every part of the apparatus is affected in all directions...Einstein said the luminiferous aether was unnecessary in 1905, but in 1920 he was talking about space as the aether of general relativity, see the [gives a link I am denied to requote?].