The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?

  • 8 Replies
  • 6860 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tony Bunn

  • Guest
Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
« on: 29/09/2011 09:01:02 »
Tony Bunn  asked the Naked Scientists:
   
When heating soup in a soup bowl in a microwave oven the soup begins to heat rapidly on the perimeter of the bowl and remains luke warm in the centre.

I imagine this is a boundary effect caused by reflection of the microwaves from the bowl edges resulting in increased heating at the edges.

This effect will have been observed by almost everyone with a microwave oven and it would be interesting for you to provide a scientific reason for this.

Tony

What do you think?
« Last Edit: 29/09/2011 09:01:02 by _system »
Logged
 



Offline Soul Surfer

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3389
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • ian kimber's web workspace
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #1 on: 29/09/2011 09:58:20 »
    I agree with your observations.  Heating a bowl of soup or even making porridge it is usually best to do it in two or three short bursd with physical stirring in between

    There are several possibilities  Microwave heating tends to be non uniform and depends on the local match to the radiation this is why you have turntables and/or stirrers in microwave cookers.

    It could be the reflection effect that you suggest

    Liquid in bowls is usually shallower near the edge it may be a thermal capacity effect

    It could also be a matching effect  (very similar to the reflection effect but not just an energy density thing more an energy coupling thing)

    The same thing happens with defrosting solid lumps but this can be worse because if it is too violent the edges can be burnt while the centre stays frozen.  This is because the dielectric constant of ice is much lower than that of water and the energy couples much more effectively into water than ice
    Logged
    Learn, create, test and tell
    evolution rules in all things
    God says so!
     

    Offline Geezer

    • Naked Science Forum King!
    • ******
    • 8314
    • Activity:
      0%
    • Thanked: 8 times
    • "Vive la résistance!"
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #2 on: 29/09/2011 19:59:57 »
    I wonder if it's just because the bowl is a relatively good insulator compared with the rest of the soup.
    Logged
    There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force æther.
     

    Offline CZARCAR

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • 686
    • Activity:
      0%
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #3 on: 29/09/2011 20:15:39 »
    use microwaveable plasticware & it dont heat up anywhere near as much
    Logged
     

    Offline damocles

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • 756
    • Activity:
      0%
    • Thanked: 1 times
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #4 on: 29/09/2011 21:15:44 »
    Microwave radiation is light, with a wavelength of the order of a centimetre. It heats things up because the actual wavelength that is used corresponds to a strong absorption band of the water molecule. When a bulky item is placed in the cavity of a microwave heater, the interior -- that is, anything more than about a centimetre from the edge -- does not heat up because the radiation has already been absorbed by the material on the outside.

    In effect what this means is that the outside gets very hot by absorbing the energy from the microwave radiation, while the inside can only be heated by conduction or convection from the material at the hot outside, and the small proportion of the radiation that can get through without being absorbed.

    For a bulky liquid sample, like a bowl of soup, stopping and stirring certainly does increase the efficiency of a microwave cooker, and is a good thing to do.
    Logged
    1 4 6 4 1
    4 4 9 4 4     
    a perfect perfect square square
    6 9 6 9 6
    4 4 9 4 4
    1 4 6 4 1
     



    Offline chris

    • Naked Science Forum King!
    • ******
    • 8061
    • Activity:
      1.5%
    • Thanked: 306 times
    • The Naked Scientist
      • The Naked Scientists
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #5 on: 29/09/2011 22:25:31 »
    The wavelength of a kitchen microwave oven is actually more like 12 centimetres.

    Logged
    I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception - Groucho Marx - https://www.thenakedscientists.com/
     

    Offline Geezer

    • Naked Science Forum King!
    • ******
    • 8314
    • Activity:
      0%
    • Thanked: 8 times
    • "Vive la résistance!"
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #6 on: 29/09/2011 22:39:54 »
    Quote from: damocles on 29/09/2011 21:15:44
    Microwave radiation is light, with a wavelength of the order of a centimetre. It heats things up because the actual wavelength that is used corresponds to a strong absorption band of the water molecule. When a bulky item is placed in the cavity of a microwave heater, the interior -- that is, anything more than about a centimetre from the edge -- does not heat up because the radiation has already been absorbed by the material on the outside.

    In effect what this means is that the outside gets very hot by absorbing the energy from the microwave radiation, while the inside can only be heated by conduction or convection from the material at the hot outside, and the small proportion of the radiation that can get through without being absorbed.


    Yes, but if that's the case, why does the top surface not start to boil as quickly as it does at the edges?
    Logged
    There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force æther.
     

    Offline JP

    • Naked Science Forum King!
    • ******
    • 3346
    • Activity:
      0%
    • Thanked: 3 times
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #7 on: 29/09/2011 22:54:27 »
    I wonder if it has to do with the way the standing waves are generated in the cavity.  I suspect most of them are directed horizontally, so you have a lot of waves bouncing left/right, but not so many bouncing up/down.
    Logged
     

    Offline Geezer

    • Naked Science Forum King!
    • ******
    • 8314
    • Activity:
      0%
    • Thanked: 8 times
    • "Vive la résistance!"
  • Best Answer
  • Why does microwaved soup heat faster at the edges of the dish?
    « Reply #8 on: 30/09/2011 00:58:34 »
    I suspect there is significant evaporation from the surface which keeps the surface cool, but the liquid in contact with the surface of the bowl is under a certain amount of pressure, and that causes its temperature to rise more rapidly.

    There is a similar effect when you heat a pan of water on a stove. The water at the bottom of the pan starts to form bubbles of steam long before the rest of the water starts to boil.
    Logged
    There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force æther.
     



    • Print
    Pages: [1]   Go Up
    « previous next »
    Tags:
     
    There was an error while thanking
    Thanking...
    • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
      Privacy Policy
      SMFAds for Free Forums
    • Naked Science Forum ©

    Page created in 1.376 seconds with 48 queries.

    • Podcasts
    • Articles
    • Get Naked
    • About
    • Contact us
    • Advertise
    • Privacy Policy
    • Subscribe to newsletter
    • We love feedback

    Follow us

    cambridge_logo_footer.png

    ©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.