[Greg Smith]

From the glycomannan web site:

"Scientists have discovered that our modern diet is missing some very vital nutrients. Surprisingly enough, these missinig nutrients are called sugars!"

Has there ever been a proper study that actually supports this claim? Could someone give me a link, please?

Thanks!

Greg

[bossless]

I came across this forum in search for information about glyconutrients.  Duane, I thank you the most for helping me to understand what Mannatech is all about in this arena.  Your information seems to be well researched and backed up by recognized scientific resources.  More so than Mannatech.  

It seems to me with the success that Mannatech is having with its glyconutrient products that there would be other similar products provided by reputable manufacturers that would be available at health food stores such as GNC.  Any comment?

[littletiebear]

Mannatechers -
Just wanted to say thanks for all the stuff you put my family through the last month of my moms life. I especially enjoyed when you called my dad up at the hotel the night before she went in for brain surgery and told him "don't do the surgery, just call it off and take the glyconutrients". With your high school education I'm sure you are well qualified to make such medical suggestions. It was brilliant to jump in at that moment, when they were so vulnerable and in such emotional turmoil. I love how you convinced my dad to spend over a thousand dollars to buy into the company because "the products are really going to pay for themselves" and "of course this going to save her life". How fast it moved from saving my moms life to getting them into the business. I really enjoyed how you used your position as friend to convince us that you just honestly cared. She is dead and of course I am angry. This is a dangerous game you people are playing, right up there with crack dealers and female slave trafficking. Yes we were fools, we were desperate. We were not looking for a miracle drug, but you were looking for desperate people. I'm not angry that it did not save her life, I am angry about every minute that you stole from my families precious time.

Peoples health is not something you just throw around like you have the slightest clue what you are talking about. If you are not a PHD, MD in medicine and biology than keep your mouth shut about what people need for their bodies.

If you or someone you know is dying than please do not turn to one of these people that push this stuff like heroin on a desperate junky. Rather, when they turn to you, as they have an eye for desperate souls, run fast and do not let their toxic mouths be opened.

How angry you must feel mannatechers that I speak this way, for I dought you would have sadness for the loss of my mother.

I do not wish to pursuade you all from this product only to give a caution and personal note on what damaging things have happend because of the people involved. As for the product itself, well, it is too tainted with my moms blood for me to honestly consider it now. I hope nobody else has to go through this like we did.

[sbyte]

Hey, This looks like the place for a real two way disscussion
of glyco-nutrients.  Almost everywhere I look there is a lot of hype.
I am a user of the mannatech products.  Over all, I am satisfied with the results I get compaired to other supplements such as vitamins.  I am not overly taxed phisiologicly. Before taking the optimal health system I was more tired all the time than now. Have had very gradual improvements in my well being.  Am more happy now.  I think I was depressed before.

I've been researching the products and have some questions about dosage.
How do you arrive at the correct amount to take.  Is there any blood serum markers?  If fresh raw foods contain Glyconutrients then how much does an averge apple, carrot or tomato have compaired to the capsul of say ambrotose?  Surely there is quantitative analysis of the chemical makeup being done. Who wants to publish the findings? Why not?

[Not2B4Gotten]

Glyconutrients are nutrients missing from our modern diets that our body must have to repair and rebuild.  Its the building blocks for cellular communication.  There are 200 sugars found in nature, but glyconutrients are 8 essential sugars that go directly to the protein surface of each and every cell in our bodies to form a complex system for cellular communication, the "operating system" of the body.  

The body will heal itself if given the proper tools to do so.  So therefore, all disease conditions can improve with proper nutrition.

Check out:

Sugars That Heal - Dr. Emil I. Mondoa, MD and Mindy Kitei

Maggots, Wonder Drugs, Transplants & Genomes - Memoirs of an Old Doctor Whose Career Has Spanned It All - Rayburne W. Goen, MD

The Healing Power of 8 Sugars - An Amazing Breakthrough in Nutrition, Science and Medicine - What Doctors want YOU to know about Glyconutrients...The 8 Sugars Vital to Your Health - Compiled and Edited by Allan C. Somersall, PhD, MD

I've been studying glycobiology and glyconutrients for over a year now and I'd be glad to try and answer any questions.  

The truth shall set you free! ~ Blessings, Joy

Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com

[Not2B4Gotten]

Glyconutrients are nutrients missing from our modern diets that our body must have to repair and rebuild.  Its the building blocks for cellular communication.  There are 200 sugars found in nature, but glyconutrients are 8 essential sugars that go directly to the protein surface of each and every cell in our bodies to form a complex system for cellular communication, the "operating system" of the body.  

The body will heal itself if given the proper tools to do so.  So therefore, all disease conditions can improve with proper nutrition.

Check out:

Sugars That Heal - Dr. Emil I. Mondoa, MD and Mindy Kitei

Maggots, Wonder Drugs, Transplants & Genomes - Memoirs of an Old Doctor Whose Career Has Spanned It All - Rayburne W. Goen, MD

The Healing Power of 8 Sugars - An Amazing Breakthrough in Nutrition, Science and Medicine - What Doctors want YOU to know about Glyconutrients...The 8 Sugars Vital to Your Health - Compiled and Edited by Allan C. Somersall, PhD, MD

I've been studying glycobiology and glyconutrients for over a year now and I'd be glad to try and answer any questions.  

The truth shall set you free! ~ Blessings, Joy

Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com

[bossless]

Joy, if the body generates on its own the essential sugars, then why is it necessary to consume these sugars?  Are you suggesting that we need to consume these sugars in our diets?  I would think that good nutrition is necessary so that the body functions properly, but I don't think that necessitates these monosaccarides in our diets.

[loweduane]

You are correct.  We do not need the "monosaccharides" (unless we have a genetic dysfunction making them), and very little, if any, of these monosaccharides are derived from the ingredients in "glyconutrient" supplements.  

Even Bill McAnalley, the person who began this craze, states that he estimates only about 20% of the monosaccharides that make up these ingredients gets absorbed (direct face-to-face personal communication with him) though there isn't any published research to support any get absorbed, or that they aren't all just converted to glucose soon thereafter.  

Deficient from our diets?  Vitamins and minerals, and even essential amino acids can be deficient from our diets, but these sugars are made by our bodies in sufficient amounts every day.  You can't be deficient in something your body efficiently makes, and no "deficiency" of these sugars has ever been documented except in those people that have a genetic inability to synthesize them.

Do these "glyconutrients" work?  Yes, but not because of the individual sugars getting absorbed, but because of the the effects of the whole chain of these sugars, and by MANY mechanisms, not just by one.  Many of these mechanisms have already been elucidated in this forum and in the curezone.com forum.  So I won't reiterate them now.  But take a look.  I think you will be impressed, even when you get past the marketing hype of the MLM company.  Especially when you realize you can get the ingredients yourself much cheaper if you want to try them.

Duane

[Greg Smith]

>and no "deficiency" of these sugars has ever been documented except in those people that have a genetic inability to synthesize them.


 This has been one of my questions for some time now. Where do proponents of glyconutrients get the idea that our modern diet is deficient in this respect? I have been unable to locate any study that even suggests it. I did, however, find a study that compares the presence of some nutrients (protein, Ca, P, Fe, riboflavin and ascorbic acid) in some vegetables harvested in 1999 to the levels found in 1950:

 http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/6/669 [nofollow]

 It would be more than a stretch to use this study as evidence for the sugar deficiency, the way I see it. Can any of the "associates" who participate on this forum point out any other documentation?

 Thanks!

 Greg

[loweduane]

The mistaken assumption of these substances being deficient in our diet is outlined in the paper "Is Saccharide Supplementation Necessary" at:  http://www.glycoscience.com/glycoscience/start_frames.wm?FILENAME=D008

This paper may impress the lay public, but is grossly mistaken in many of its suppositions when trying to be convincing that we need to supplement our diet with individual saccharides.

One of the main mistakes it makes is to compare these substances with vitamins and minerals.  The major difference is that vitamins and minerals cannot be made by your body, the saccharides can.  There are many other mistaken and irrelevent assumptions made by this paper as well.  Basically, there is no support that we need the individual saccharides.

However, realize that the ingredients in their supplement are NOT the individual saccharides.  They are complex, non-digestible chains of the sugars, that are considered dietary fiber.  And more and more research is showing that both soluble and insoluble fibers have many important benefits in health, and that we do not get enough in our diet.  

Also, different fibers can have different benefits/effects on health, so a combination is better than just adding one kind to your cereal in the morning.  This is where Mannatech's supplement has been beneficial (though there are many more economical and effective alternatives)  These fibers can stimulate the immune system, eliminate opportunistic microorganisms, improve blood-sugar levels, decrease cholesterol, improve liver function, improve healing, prevent certain cancers, etc.  (see previous posts on this forum and the curezone.com forum).

So there is the alternative view to the marketing hype.

Duane

[alicilene]

I am so disapointed when I read about people who are so mistrusting of products that can really help them,  I wonder if they were in as much pain themselves as others are who use glyconutrients, if maybe they would be a little more ready to use it themselves.   The problem with Drs. who don't like it, is that they don't want people to find a way to get better themselves.  And honestly most of them don't know that much about nutrition.  I have had back surgery, been in tremendous pain,  I have steel rods and cages with screws in my back,  I had fibromyalgia, severe arthritis, osteoporosis, tumors in one breast, and a cholesteral level that stayed between 350 and 400 at all time.  So yes I was desperate, and skeptical, because I had bought all kinds of "herbs" and products in the past that just wasted my money.  But my friend talked me into the glyconutrients, so I started taking Advanced Ambrotose in Sept of 05,  I went in Feb of 06 to get my yearly checkup,  (meanwhile I had quit taking my cholesteral meds, and fosomax (osteoporosis meds) back in Sept.  However I don't advise that for anyone.  I did it because the meds were making me sick,  Anyhow to make a long story short, I got back all my tests, and the bone scan shows that I have the bones of a 30 year old woman now, and said I no longer have osteoporosis, my cholesteral dropped from 367 down to 236,  My arthritis pain and the pain in my back has virtually disapered.   I would challenge any Dr. or hospital to tell me that my body just healed itself without the help of glyconutrients.  I will always be on them, because finally at 49 years old, I feel like I have my life back.  What I pay for the product is not only worth it,  but is made up for due to the fact that I no longer have to be on some of my meds.

[loweduane]

We are not mistrusting of the supplements, they work wonderfully, but we mistrust the companies that sell them.  

Because these supplements worked for you, you probably believe that it was because that you absorbed 8 sugars that helped your body heal itself.  However, while the supplement does work, it had nothing to do with 8 sugars being absorbed.  In fact there is no research showing you absorb any sugars from these substances, or that they have even increased even one glycoprotein, or even if a glycoprotein was increased, that it had anything to do with helping your symptoms.  

However, virtually all of your symptoms/problems that you described can easily be shown to be effected positively by other mechanisms.  For example, did you know that soluble fibers (like the ingredients in these supplements) have been shown to significantly increase the absorption of calcium, and are being investigated for their use in treating osteoporosis?  

Yes the supplements work.  We take them and highly recommend them.  However, since the main company doesn't actually make these ingredients, but only buys them from other companies, mixes them and then sells them for a ridiculous price, it is much cheaper to buy the ingredients separately and mix it your self.  Same results, but a 4 months supply for the price of one from that company.

Glad you are doing well.  Glyconutrients are great.

Duane

[bahamamama]

Just read this whole thread and was amazed at the negative responses to Duane!  He was always clear and succint in his posts.

Duane, I for one appreciate your candor and scientific responses.  I never thought you disliked glyconutrients, only the way they were being falsely marketed by a certain company.

I was surprised that you had to repeat this over and over and over again.

I'm heading over to curezone to see what else has been discussed.

Take care,

Julieanne

[starslayer]

In my opinion, Mannatech's supplements are worthwhile, however the way that they market these prodeucts gets them horrible press, due to greedy sellers who make false claims. I'm sure that many of the sellers are honest people who really are trying to make in difference, but if Mannatech would have just done a normal routine and marketed their products through GNC and such, they would be not have the bad press that they have today. The only reason for the bad press and sceptisism is the fact that they rely on network marketing, and have have so many sellers who want your money and nothing more.

The products do work, and the prices are rediculous, but hopefully sometime soon the will be an alternate solution that will educate people without being greedy or pushy.

[bossless]

Starslayer, I think you are missing the point.  It is the company, Mannatech, that has caused the problem by setting up a false premise of how their glyconutrients work.  Sure, you will have some bad apples in netrwork marketing as you do in all endeavors.  However, network marketing in and of itself is not the problem.  Sometimes it can be individuals letting greed get ahead of the truth that is the problem, but in this case it is the company that is the primary problem, not the product, network marketing, or the individuals, even though there is some mix of all of this.  If this product were placed in GNC with the same explanation of how it works it would be just as misleading as it is by a network marketing company.

[marathoner]

quote:Originally posted by marathoner

Some who disparage glyconutrient supplements claim the saccharides are not assimilated.  However, radioactive tracer studies have shown oral ingestion of mannose leads to cellular glycosylation:
 Alton G;Hasilik M;Niehues R;Panneerselvam K;Etchison JR;Fana F;Freeze HH;. Direct utilization of mannose for mammalian glycoprotein biosynthesis. Glycobiology. 1998; 8: 285-295.
And many studies show beneficial clinical effects of glyconutrient supplementation.

[loweduane]

You will note that the study that you list concerns "mannose".  The mannose in Mannatech's product is Acemannan, a beta-linked chain of Mannose molecules.  In order for the mannose to be absorbed, the Acemannan would haveto be broken down into individual mannose molecules, and your body does not make the enzyme to do that in your intestine.  

The micro-organisms in your large intestine can break it down, so that they can digest the mannose, and during this process some mannose may be absorbed, but the amount would be extremely small - if at all.  Most of it would be used by the micro-organisms and converted to Short-Chain Fatty Acids.  (which are beneficial)

However, the whole acemannan molecule is similar to the chains of saccharides on the cell walls of many micro-organisms, such as yeasts.  Your the acemannan binds to certain receptors in the intestine and your body reacts as if it has high levels of negative micro-organisms, stimulating the immune system.  

Short-chain fatty acids and stimulating immune system via receptors within your intestine are just two of the many, many mechanisms that can be shown to be working here.  Current research, however, does not support that the effects of these substances have anything to do with absorbing these sugars that your body can readily synthesize.

We don't disparage the supplement.  They do work.  We disparage the faulty explanation of their mechanism of action that was developed to sell the product.

If you go to glycoscience.com, and look at the two latest articles in their Glycoscience journal, many of these alternative mechanisms that we have been listing for the last year (or more) are now beginning to be addressed by this company.  I would not be surprised if eventually the 8 sugar hypothesis is dropped entirely as more of the actual research is published showing no effects of these supplements on glycoconjugates.

As we have said before, it works, just not how Mannatech is telling everyone it works.  AND, you can easily make your own with same or better benefits for a fraction of the price.  Just go to:

http://www.curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=223&i=2024

Duane

[bossless]

Duane, since this supplement works so well why doesn't some company provide a less expensive version similar to your homemade recipe without all the bogus marketing about the 8 sugars healing power?  Can you answer this?

[loweduane]

I don't know why.

I know that Mannatech is now suing Glycobiotics for patent infringement, so I think you will see less and less knock-offs.  One of the ways that these companies could avoid this would be to market their combination of ingredients with information on the actual mechanisms and not mentioning the 8 sugar hypothesis.

I have talked to some of the people who make some of these competing products, and shared with them the information about the faulty science of the 8 sugar hypothesis, and while they are very interested, and cannot find any evidence to support it, the 8 sugar hypothesis is very easy to market, and people are familiar with it...even if it is basically a lie.

I have never talked to one of the people at these companies that actually took the time to research the validity of Mannatechs claims before I informed them of the lack of scientific support.  They had seen the research listed by Mannatech's websites on the individual sugars and it never occurred to them that those sugars wouldn't be available from the ingredients Mannatech uses.

You will note, however, that Mannatech's glycoscience.com website has the "Glycoscience and Nutrition Journal" and that the last two articles listed in this journal are about the effects of these substances on the intestines, and the importance of probiotics.  Basically they reiterate the mechanisms that we have been stating for over the last year.  As more research comes out showing their 8 sugar hypotheses to be wrong, they will slowly shift towards the explanations we have been pointing out.  They have already started.  But they have to take it slow since their blind faithful will not take the change in explanation easily.  

Did that answer the question?

Duane

[bossless]

I think you basically answered the question.  In one word it is ignorance.  Thanks.