Usefulness of Glyconutrients

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Offline aphay

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Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« on: 27/08/2004 05:19:35 »
Does it help to improve mental retardation like what had been said about it benefiting down syndrome people. How about epilepsy as well?
 
thanks..
 

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Offline chris

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #1 on: 28/08/2004 23:42:04 »
I've not heard anything specifically on this, but I'll look into it for you.

Chris

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Offline psophist

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #2 on: 01/10/2004 02:00:41 »
I have heard about a few people where the glyconutrients have actually improved their health condition.  

I found a report that might shed some light and some thought to what to avoid.....

[?]Plant-induced seizures: reappearance of an old problem.

Burkhard PR, Burkhardt K, Haenggeli CA, Landis T.

Department of Neurology, University Hospital, CH-1211 Geneva 14, Switzerland, Pierre.Burkhard@hcuge.ch

Several plant-derived essential oils have been known for over a century to have epileptogenic properties. We report three healthy patients, two adults and one child, who suffered from an isolated generalized tonic-clonic seizure and a generalized tonic status, respectively, related to the absorption of several of these oils for therapeutic purposes. No other cause of epilepsy was found, and outcome was good in the two adult cases, but the course has been less favorable in the child. A survey of the literature shows essential oils of 11 plants to be powerful convulsants (eucalyptus, fennel, hyssop, pennyroyal, rosemary, sage, savin, tansy, thuja, turpentine, and wormwood) due to their content of highly reactive monoterpene ketones, such as camphor, pinocamphone, thujone, cineole, pulegone, sabinylacetate, and fenchone. Our three cases strongly support the concept of plant-related toxic seizure. Nowadays the wide use of these compounds in certain unconventional medicines makes this severe complication again possible.[?]

Here is another report I found....[?]Treatment of four siblings with progressive myoclonus epilepsy of the Unverricht-Lundborg type with N-acetylcysteine[?]

Of what I have learned in my research, glyconutrients are not dis-ease specific.  These essential sugars are 'life to a cell' and help a dis-eased cell recover from its trauma and assist a healthy cell in its normal 'workday' function.  

There are several books out [ newbielink:http://store.dexlen.com# [nonactive]s ] about glyconutrients.  You can read the first chapter of one of the books "Sugars that Heal" at newbielink:http://glyco.dexlen.us/SugarsThatHeal.htm [nonactive]
« Last Edit: 01/10/2004 02:02:21 by psophist »
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #3 on: 24/10/2004 11:17:17 »
Here's the deal:  Your body can synthesize any saccharide it requires from protein intake.  There is no such thing as an essential sugar.  So, unless you have a genetic mutation which alters an enzyme that catalyzes one of the synthetic pathways from amino acid to a particular sugar, most glyconutrients are a waste of your money.  

Some of the more complex glyconutrients might be worth taking...but that last link in psophist's post (sugars that heal) is complete nonsense.

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #4 on: 26/10/2004 06:07:42 »
Now I do remember reading that a certain amount of sugar was necessary for brain development in the first trimester of pregnancy.  But as a cure after the fact on epilepsy and mental retardation?  I wouldn't think so.  I alos remember readying a while back on vitamin B therapy for schizophrenia.  Seems like most of the stuff I've heard is about how sugar is bad for you.  Now it heals.  Go figure.
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #5 on: 01/11/2004 11:48:12 »
Well, sugar ultimately kills you, no matter who you are or what you eat.  Glycolysis produces pyruvate which enters the TCA/Kreb's cycle for energy production, from which the electrons generated are picked up by oxygen forming superoxide radical, the main progenitor of free radical damage in your body and the ultimate cause of aging, genetic damage,  and many diseases.  But you can't live without it.  =)  

I've also heard that glycosylation of proteins in the circulatory system is a huge cause of heart disease, especially in diabetics who tend to have higher blood glucose concentrations.  



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Offline bezoar

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #6 on: 03/11/2004 07:26:45 »
So maybe antioxidents are the way to go.
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #7 on: 04/11/2004 08:18:48 »
Antioxidants are definately the way to go.  One of my mentors over the summer worked in the Webb-Waring Center for Antioxidant Research.  I saw research detailing oxidant imbalances related to diabetes, heart disease, and several types of cancer.  This can be a result of either inhibited production of antioxidants or excess production of oxidants, that hasn't been determined specifically yet....only that there are far more oxidants present in diseased tissues prior to disease manifestation.  

Scary, eh?

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #8 on: 04/11/2004 19:55:52 »
Yep, I'm scared now.  I'm going out to get some Co Q10.
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #9 on: 05/11/2004 07:38:37 »
I'll try and dig up some of the research that some of the people at Webb-Waring were doing and see what antioxidants they experimented with.  I believe some of them were readily available as supplements.  



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Offline chris

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #10 on: 05/11/2004 10:08:36 »
Antioxidant supplementation is probably very context-specific. In other words, the antioxidants present in 'green leafy vegetables' work well when they are administered as 'green leafy vegetables', but not when popped as a pill. Recent publications show that vitamin supplementation is a waste of money. More worryingly, one past study looking at the anti-cancer effects of anti-oxidants involved administering vitamin A (an anti-oxidant) to smokers and following up their rates of lung cancer. The study had to be stopped prematurely owing to a huge excess of lung cancers amongst the vitamin A treatment arm of the study.

The best advice is probably therefore to eat a helathy balanced diet that already contains all of the things jammed into supplement pills - you'll certainly save money, and you could save your life.

Chris

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #11 on: 06/11/2004 01:10:26 »
But Chris-
I'm an American.  We don't know how to do that here!
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #12 on: 06/11/2004 11:43:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Antioxidant supplementation is probably very context-specific. In other words, the antioxidants present in 'green leafy vegetables' work well when they are administered as 'green leafy vegetables', but not when popped as a pill. Recent publications show that vitamin supplementation is a waste of money. More worryingly, one past study looking at the anti-cancer effects of anti-oxidants involved administering vitamin A (an anti-oxidant) to smokers and following up their rates of lung cancer. The study had to be stopped prematurely owing to a huge excess of lung cancers amongst the vitamin A treatment arm of the study.

The best advice is probably therefore to eat a helathy balanced diet that already contains all of the things jammed into supplement pills - you'll certainly save money, and you could save your life.



By waste of money, I assume you're implying that vitamin supplements have a very low bioavailability, right?  That being the case, how do biologically unavailable vitamins have any effect on lung cancer, positive OR negative?

I agree that the best way to get your nutrients is to eat heathly foods.  It's not very easy to eat a fully balanced meal all the time, and not all supplements are created equal...some have a higher bioavailability than others.  This depends greatly on source, processing, and delivery, and is vitamin dependent.  (i.e. some supplement better than others)  

Anyway, I think I failed to mention that high oxidant levels are as much a symptom as they are a disorder.  Treating the oxidants alone doesn't cure the disease, but can slow the onset.



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Offline chris

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #13 on: 06/11/2004 11:56:46 »
Well, actually no. It's not the bioavailability that seems to be the issue. It's the context and the total dose. Vitamin E is now actually implicated in increasing the risk of certain disorders - possibly heart disease.

I think the best way to think of it is that humans (and other animals) evolved to eat the diet that was naturally available to them. Our biochemistry therefore depends upon, and is optimised to use, trace elements, minerals and vitamins, at the concentration and in the context in which they are found in nature.

Popping a pill is a very artificial situation and does not accurately recreate the digestive chemical milieu that would exist if you had just eaten a decent meal.

Take iron as an example - this has a low bioavailability so we have very efficient scavenging systems to extract it from the diet. So supplementing with iron can push some men into iron toxicity.

I'm not saying that some people, through geography or dietary fad, are not deficient in some things, but the vast majority of people do not need to waste money on expensive supplements - eating the right foods is a cheaper and probably more effective way to maintain good health.

At the risk of being repetitive, taking a tablet does not present minerals, vitamins and trace elements to your body in the way it has evolved, over millions of years, to absorb them. Rather than seeing these dietary goodies in the correct concentrations, and associated with other beneficial chemicals, your digestive system sees the equivalent of a deluge, which can have all kinds of toxic effects. Vitamin A is great for keeping your eyes healthy, but eat a slice of polar bear liver and you'll go blind. It all comes down to too much of a good thing.

Chris

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #14 on: 07/11/2004 12:54:43 »
So what's worse...being deprived of a vitamin or mineral that your diet doesn't provide, or taking vitamin supplements that might overexpose you to other nutrients which you already have an adequate supply of?  Assuming you don't have a dietician at your disposal, this may be a tough decision for the average person.



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Offline tweener

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #15 on: 08/11/2004 00:41:42 »
It's great to eat a "balanced diet", but much of the produce we can buy in supermarkets has been picked early and then spent so much time in shipment that it is no longer "fresh" and usually lacks much of the nutritive value that truly fresh food should have.

Also, archaeological records show that malnutrition and related diseases (scurvy, rickets, etc.) were quite common in prehistoric times.  That coupled with the fact that human life expectancy was in the mid to upper twenties makes me think that the "cave man" diet might not be the best diet for modern humans.

Chris, I'd like to see some of the studies on the toxicity of vitamins and anti-oxidants.  I know there are toxic levels, but they are usually considered fairly high in the studies I've seen.

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Offline chris

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #16 on: 11/11/2004 09:42:34 »
John, further to my comments about vitamin toxicity, including vitamin E, and your request for some evidence, please see this news story released by Reuters today :

"By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Vitamin E supplements, which millions take in the hope of longer, healthier lives, may do more harm than good, researchers reported on Wednesday.

In fact, people taking high doses of vitamin E may in some cases be more likely to die earlier, although the reasons are not clear, said Dr. Edgar Miller of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, who led the study.

"I think people take vitamin E because they think it is going to make you live longer, but this (study) doesn't support that," Miller told reporters.

Miller and colleagues re-analyzed 19 studies of vitamin E and health between 1993 and 2004. The trials involved more than 136,000 mostly elderly patients in North America, Europe and China.

People who took 200 international units of vitamin E a day or more died at a higher rate during the study, which lasted three years, than people who did not take supplements, they told a meeting of the American Heart Association.

"It's about a 5 percent increased risk at 45 years in the trials pooled together," Miller said.

"That doesn't sound like a lot but if you apply it to 25 percent of the (U.S.) adult population taking vitamin E, that is significant."

Miller, whose findings are also being published online by the Annals of Internal Medicine, said two-thirds of people who take vitamin E supplements take 400 IU or more.

"We don't think that people need to take vitamin E supplements, that they get enough from the diet," he said. Nuts, oils, whole grains and green leafy vegetables are all rich in vitamin E.

MUCH MORE THAN NEEDED
The average U.S. diet supplies six to 10 IU of E, Miller said. The Institute of Medicine (news - web sites), which sets recommended doses of vitamins and minerals, gives 1,500 IU of E as a daily upper limit.

"I would say it is too high," Miller said. The U.S. government's Food and Drug Administration is barred by law from regulating dietary supplements so the limits are voluntary.

People take large doses of vitamin E in the belief that it helps counter oxidation by unstable "free radical" molecules, which damages cells and can accelerate aging and lead to heart disease and cancer.

Miller, who was surprised by the findings of the study, said there could be several ways the vitamin supplementation is damaging the body.

While vitamin E in low doses is a powerful antioxidant, in higher doses its effects may promote oxidative damage, and may also overwhelm the body's natural antioxidants, he said.

Dr. Raymond Gibbons of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said the evidence has been building against vitamin E supplements.

"Despite this ... I see many, many patients still taking vitamin E and I have to convince them not to," he told a separate news conference.

But the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a trade group for supplement makers, criticised the report.

"This is an unfortunate misdirection of science in an attempt to make something out of nothing for the sake of headlines," said the group's John Hathcock.

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« Last Edit: 11/11/2004 09:47:32 by chris »
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Offline Uly

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #17 on: 11/11/2004 10:20:45 »
This is the kind of thing that is driving me insane! I'm getting to the point where I'm too scared to take any supplements because we still don't know the true effects on us. I am also skeptical about all the fresh / Raw or heathly foods I eat always wondering have the been picked too early? Do they have all the vitamins minerals that that are designed to have in them. Are they filled with chemicals ect

I have been giving my mother 2010 iu of vitamin e a day, thinking that it will help her! She wont eat fruit and has very little veges!

Uly [:(]
 

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Offline tweener

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #18 on: 12/11/2004 05:26:47 »
Thanks Chris.  That's a very interesting study, and like Uly says, it makes things even more confusing.  

I think one conclusion to all of this is that there is no magic bullet.

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Offline chris

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #19 on: 12/11/2004 07:55:48 »
There are other ways to improve your overall diet without having to resort to paying a fortune for highly refined 'supplements' which probably have very different actions when taken out of the context in which they are found naturally.

For faddy (fussy) eaters a good approach is to include fruit juice (freshly squeezed) in the diet. Then make some soup which contains pureed vegetables (thus masking their texture). You'll be surprised how many people who 'hate vegetables' will happily slurp their way through a big bowl of 'delicious' soup that contains heaps on tomatoes, carrots, potato.

Give it a go and give the supplements a rest - the only people they help are the people who sell them to you.

Chris

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Offline chris

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #20 on: 12/11/2004 07:58:11 »
Oh, and you can get plenty of vitamin E from a packet of peanuts or cashews at a fraction of the price. C

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #21 on: 07/02/2005 12:10:58 »
For things like CoQ10 though, you have to eat a lot of organ meats.  Yuck.  =P  

Doesn't cooking food destroy many of the nutrients contained within?  I've had some of the vegan wackos I know make a case for this and I'm starting to think they make sense.

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Offline glycomom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #22 on: 29/03/2005 04:10:24 »
There have been several good points here. BUT, there are good products on the market! Maybe the caveman didn't know oranges were a good source of C? Bottom line, our bodies were made to utlize FOOD not synthetics. Our entire family uses products from a good company and we have seen amazing recovery in several areas. I am a "medical mom" and have done my homework. Glyconutrients DO WORK!
I have seen it in my own famiily. I will not get to details here but  if anyone wants they  are welcome to e-mail me. emmerich2314@aol.com
Rene
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #23 on: 29/03/2005 12:11:05 »
quote:
Originally posted by glycomom

 our bodies were made to utlize FOOD not synthetics. Our entire family uses products from a good company and we have seen amazing recovery in several areas. I am a "medical mom" and have done my homework. Glyconutrients DO WORK!




Our bodies evolved to utilize the biochemicals contained in food.  Your body does not care if a particular chemical comes from a plant or comes from a pill as long is it is the proper chemical in the proper conformation.  Just because we started off eating food is no reason to think we should only obtain our nutrients from food and food only.  

Most nutritional supplements are extracts of biomass anyway.  Do you know how hard it is to synthesize an enzyme or a vitamin?  How is this any better or worse than the source of these miraculous glyconutrients?  
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Offline glycomom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #24 on: 29/03/2005 20:37:45 »
I am interested in knowing where your nutrition background stems? You seem to be very anti-natural. What does that stem from. Being the mother of a special needs child that is a product of our medical system, I know what happens. I live with it every day.
 

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Offline snookrz_2000

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #25 on: 29/03/2005 22:19:44 »
Hey all!  I stumbled on this forum. Wow! Tons of info...

I was told there are specific monosaccharides that are used for glycosylation on every cell. That there is even a noble prize winner for  the discovery.



But   'Ylide', you are saying that this isn't true? Are you a specialist in nutrition or something?
 

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Offline snookrz_2000

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #26 on: 29/03/2005 22:33:45 »
On the topic of eating healthy.....

The AMA (American Medical Association), recommends some type of vitamin supplementing to help protect against disease.

newbielink:http://thyroid.about.com/cs/newsinfo/l/blvitamins.htm [nonactive]

Is a vitamin trully needed? If so, that would suggest that the foods that are available now aren't giving us adequate amounts of nutrients to stay healthy. Which leads me to believe that there is a possibility we aren't getting all the nutrition from the foods we have now compared to what we used to get from the foods 50 years ago.  Am i on the right track at least?
 

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Offline snookrz_2000

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #27 on: 30/03/2005 14:22:52 »
Ylide?  I read your profile. you have background in biology. Kewl!


After reading these posts, I went around the internet and looked at different sites that had 'glyconutrient' mentioned...
I found several that mention that this stuff is a technology that MIT recognizes as one that will, 'change the world'(their words)...

Is it possible that Mass. Institute of Technology knows something that you don't, Ylide?

Confused...please expound with your knowledge if possible.



 

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Offline snow_nat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #28 on: 31/03/2005 18:52:49 »
Hello, would you be able to post how I could read the reports you refer to in this post.

Thanks, Nat.

quote:
Originally posted by psophist

I have heard about a few people where the glyconutrients have actually improved their health condition.  

I found a report that might shed some light and some thought to what to avoid.....

[?]Plant-induced seizures: reappearance of an old problem.

Burkhard PR, Burkhardt K, Haenggeli CA, Landis T.

Department of Neurology, University Hospital, CH-1211 Geneva 14, Switzerland, Pierre.Burkhard@hcuge.ch

Several plant-derived essential oils have been known for over a century to have epileptogenic properties. We report three healthy patients, two adults and one child, who suffered from an isolated generalized tonic-clonic seizure and a generalized tonic status, respectively, related to the absorption of several of these oils for therapeutic purposes. No other cause of epilepsy was found, and outcome was good in the two adult cases, but the course has been less favorable in the child. A survey of the literature shows essential oils of 11 plants to be powerful convulsants (eucalyptus, fennel, hyssop, pennyroyal, rosemary, sage, savin, tansy, thuja, turpentine, and wormwood) due to their content of highly reactive monoterpene ketones, such as camphor, pinocamphone, thujone, cineole, pulegone, sabinylacetate, and fenchone. Our three cases strongly support the concept of plant-related toxic seizure. Nowadays the wide use of these compounds in certain unconventional medicines makes this severe complication again possible.[?]

Here is another report I found....[?]Treatment of four siblings with progressive myoclonus epilepsy of the Unverricht-Lundborg type with N-acetylcysteine[?]

Of what I have learned in my research, glyconutrients are not dis-ease specific.  These essential sugars are 'life to a cell' and help a dis-eased cell recover from its trauma and assist a healthy cell in its normal 'workday' function.  

There are several books out [ newbielink:http://store.dexlen.com# [nonactive]s ] about glyconutrients.  You can read the first chapter of one of the books "Sugars that Heal" at newbielink:http://glyco.dexlen.us/SugarsThatHeal.htm [nonactive]


 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #29 on: 18/04/2005 06:12:51 »
Glyconutrients ARE NOT ABOUT SUGARS (SACCHARIDES). Yes, there are sugars on the surface of cells in the human body.  YOUR BODY MAKES ALL OF THESE.  

These products that these companies sell contain substances that DO NOT PROVIDE THESE SUGARS.  They cannot, because they are in forms that have been shown to NOT BE DIGESTED, and cannot be broken into the individual sugars.  If they are not broken down, your body cannot absorb them.  In fact, most of these ingredients have been shown to pass intact into the large intestine, where they are eaten by microorganisms which produce short-chain fatty acids.

Did MIT say glycomics will change the world?  Yes, they were talking about the science of how these sugars work in the body.  THEY WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GLYCONUTRIENTS!!  

Did several Nobel prizes get won for glycobiologists?  YES, BUT THEIR RESEARCH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE SUPPLEMENTS, OR ANY SUPPLEMENTS AT ALL!!!

If you are a diabetic and you want to know what your blood glucose levels are what do you do?  You check your blood glucose.  Haven't you ever wondered why in over 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to prove the benefits of their supplement, why this company HAS NEVER published a study showing even one sugar increased after taking their supplement?  BECAUSE NONE OF THESE POLYSACCHARIDES PROVIDE EVEN ONE SUGAR TO BE ABSORBED BY THE HUMAN BODY.

Do they work?  Possibly.  They are made of substances that could bind certain receptors in the intestine stimulating the immune system.  And they have been shown to increase the production of butyrate, proprionate in the colon, which have many beneficial properties.  But those who think absorbing individual sugars are the reason, are the ignorant public who have no understanding of human physiology, and have no idea how to understand the research on these substances, and so they just believe what they are told.

Of course, I have no financial stake in these products, so feel free to find some research to prove me wrong.  And don't list a website like glycoscience.org because I've been there and there is no research article on that site that contradicts anything I have said.  Give me a specific reference or quote even one reputable glycobiologist who thinks you can absorb any sugars from these substances.  (I know, I have talked to some of the best in the country about this, such as HH Freeze, Ph.D.).

And the new improved version of their glyconutrient contains a common seaweed extract, which is readily and cheaply available.  Yes there is research to show that this seaweed has polysaccharide, mostly composed of fucose, but there are no studies that I can find that show you can break this extract into the individual fucose molecules either.  Much of the research listed in the National Library of Medicine shows that the benefits of this ingredient is secondary to its dipeptide content rather than its saccharide content.  Dipeptides are two amino acids attached together.  But then you couldn't call it a glyconutrient if you thought the amino acids were the benefit.  

Is their new product cheaper?  Sure, but you have to take more than the original supplement, and you can buy all of the ingredients of this companies products separately for a fraction of the price. In fact, they don't make any of the ingredients at all, they buy them from other companies and put it together.  You can do the same thing from the same companies.  No reason to go broke if these are helping you.  Of course, your upline won't make any money that way.

 

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Offline mannamom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #30 on: 21/04/2005 16:18:28 »
why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about glyconutrients? as far as the "new" product goes...it is more cost efective then the old and you take LESS. Before you bash things dig a bit deeper! If MIT did not refer to glyconutrients, what do you think glycomics is??? THe study of stars????
 

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Offline bystander

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #31 on: 22/04/2005 14:38:47 »
quote:
Originally posted by loweduane

Glyconutrients ARE NOT ABOUT SUGARS (SACCHARIDES). Yes, there are sugars on the surface of cells in the human body.  YOUR BODY MAKES ALL OF THESE.  

These products that these companies sell contain substances that DO NOT PROVIDE THESE SUGARS.  They cannot, because they are in forms that have been shown to NOT BE DIGESTED, and cannot be broken into the individual sugars.  If they are not broken down, your body cannot absorb them.  In fact, most of these ingredients have been shown to pass intact into the large intestine, where they are eaten by microorganisms which produce short-chain fatty acids.

Did MIT say glycomics will change the world?  Yes, they were talking about the science of how these sugars work in the body.  THEY WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GLYCONUTRIENTS!!  

Did several Nobel prizes get won for glycobiologists?  YES, BUT THEIR RESEARCH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE SUPPLEMENTS, OR ANY SUPPLEMENTS AT ALL!!!

If you are a diabetic and you want to know what your blood glucose levels are what do you do?  You check your blood glucose.  Haven't you ever wondered why in over 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to prove the benefits of their supplement, why this company HAS NEVER published a study showing even one sugar increased after taking their supplement?  BECAUSE NONE OF THESE POLYSACCHARIDES PROVIDE EVEN ONE SUGAR TO BE ABSORBED BY THE HUMAN BODY.

Do they work?  Possibly.  They are made of substances that could bind certain receptors in the intestine stimulating the immune system.  And they have been shown to increase the production of butyrate, proprionate in the colon, which have many beneficial properties.  But those who think absorbing individual sugars are the reason, are the ignorant public who have no understanding of human physiology, and have no idea how to understand the research on these substances, and so they just believe what they are told.

Of course, I have no financial stake in these products, so feel free to find some research to prove me wrong.  And don't list a website like glycoscience.org because I've been there and there is no research article on that site that contradicts anything I have said.  Give me a specific reference or quote even one reputable glycobiologist who thinks you can absorb any sugars from these substances.  (I know, I have talked to some of the best in the country about this, such as HH Freeze, Ph.D.).

And the new improved version of their glyconutrient contains a common seaweed extract, which is readily and cheaply available.  Yes there is research to show that this seaweed has polysaccharide, mostly composed of fucose, but there are no studies that I can find that show you can break this extract into the individual fucose molecules either.  Much of the research listed in the National Library of Medicine shows that the benefits of this ingredient is secondary to its dipeptide content rather than its saccharide content.  Dipeptides are two amino acids attached together.  But then you couldn't call it a glyconutrient if you thought the amino acids were the benefit.  

Is their new product cheaper?  Sure, but you have to take more than the original supplement, and [?]you can buy all of the ingredients of this companies products separately for a fraction of the price. In fact, they don't make any of the ingredients at all, they buy them from other companies and put it together.  You can do the same thing from the same companies.  No reason to go broke if these are helping you.  Of course, your upline won't make any money that way.[?]



[?]WHAT COMPANIES CAN I GET THESE FROM? I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE BEEN SCEPTICALLY SUCKED IN TO TRYING THESE PRODUCTS..MANNATECH..AND HAVE BEEN HELPED...BUT CAN'T AFFORD TO BE RIPPED OFF.
CONNIE
Just An Ignorant Bystander

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Offline bystander

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #32 on: 22/04/2005 16:20:04 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Antioxidant supplementation is probably very context-specific. In other words, [?]the antioxidants present in 'green leafy vegetables' work well when they are administered as 'green leafy vegetables', but not when popped as a pill. [?]Recent publications show that vitamin supplementation is a waste of money. More worryingly, one past study looking at the anti-cancer effects of anti-oxidants involved administering vitamin A (an anti-oxidant) to smokers and following up their rates of lung cancer. The study had to be stopped prematurely owing to a huge excess of lung cancers amongst the vitamin A treatment arm of the study.

[?]The best advice is probably therefore to eat a helathy balanced diet that already contains all of the things jammed into supplement pills - you'll certainly save money, and you could save your life.[?]

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[?]I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT NUTRIENTS ARE IN WHICH FOODS AND WHAT CAN I TAKE IN THROUGH FOOD( Provided I can find UNPROCESSED & vine RIPENED un-poisoned)
I think we should be concerned about The NUTRITIONAL EDUCATION of Americans.
Ignorant Bystander
Just An Ignorant Bystander

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Offline mannamom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #33 on: 22/04/2005 16:54:21 »
Connie,

e-mail me and I can show you how to get your products for free.This really works! emmerich2314@aol.com
 

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Offline bystander

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #34 on: 22/04/2005 17:26:33 »
Thanks[;)], but I know the sales pitch .
Actually,I am looking more for the source of the companies that supply to that company.
I am interested in learning about the natural foods that CONTAIN the NATURAL NUTRIENTS ...That are contained in these supplements....[?]

Just An Ignorant Bystander
« Last Edit: 22/04/2005 17:30:08 by bystander »
Just An Ignorant Bystander

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #35 on: 24/04/2005 08:05:16 »
Bystander

Mannatech buys its Arabinogalactan from Larex Inc.  (They are the only supplier of Arabinogalactan in the world at present, so if you buy it, they made it.)  Food Science of Vermont sells a 100 gram container of the exact same grade arabinogalactan as what it in Ambrotose.  MyVitaNet.com sells it.  

Manapol (Aloe Extract with long chain acemannan) is ONLY made by Carrington Labs, which supplies Mannatech.  They also sell Manapol directly and from vendors, such as MyVitaNet.com.  

The other ingredients, such as the glucosamine, can be found from multiple sources.  NOW brand vitamins has a very inexpensive powder form if you are making your own recipe.  The gum Ghatti is more difficult to get, but the gum tragacanth is fairly easy to find via the internet.  And I see no rationale to add the filler "rice starch".  I notice that they didn't add it to their new "advanced ambrotose" at all.

Here is a post from 'pilotlight' at the curezone forums on the same topic.

"Hi Duane,

I thought Iíd let you know how I made out creating my own glyconutrients thanks to your advice. Although I believe that you may be correct that people will see the same benefit by using only the arabinogalactan and the manapol, I wanted to see how close I could actually come to the glycol-formula that is ambrotose.

The first thing I did was I purchased a hundred gram digital scale and hundred gram weight (for calibration). The cost for both and shipping and handling was about $30.00. Then I purchased the manapol powder (64g at $27.44 which includes shipping and handling) and arabinogalactan (100g at $25.37 which includes shipping and handling) from myvitanet.com. I then went and purchased a high grade vegetarian glucosamine HCL called prescription 2000 (90g at $25.90 which includes shipping and handling). Because there is no warning about allergies to sea food on ambrotose I assume that the glucosamine HCL in ambrotose is vegetable based. After reading the patent information that you provided, I learned that Mannatech purchases their gum tragacanth and gum ghatti from a distributor named AEP Colloids in New York. Unfortunately, they only sell their products to businesses, however, I was resourceful enough to have a friend who owns a baking business (usually what gums are used for) order me a free sample, and who can purchase it for me if I really want to use it. There are plenty of places to order gum tragacanth but not so many for gum ghatti. However, gum arabic seems to be an adequate substitute and is one of the gums that some of the other manufactures of glyconutrients use in their products. There are plenty of sources for food grade gum arabic. That leaves the good old rice starch. Believe or not there are not too many places to purchase this ingredient (A&B ingredients is one of them) but according to the patent application, you can use corn starch or rice or corn flour.

Based on my purchases, I estimated it would cost me a little less than $25.00 per 100 gram container based on the formula contained in the patent application. I will probably get it under the $20.00 mark when I become a little more savvy about my purchasing and utilizing free shipping, etc. It will probably be even cheaper if I decide to buy the tragacanth and ghatti in bulk from AEP colloids via my friend.

I canít tell you how much I appreciate your assistance. I plan on educating people on every message board that I can find. To be honest with you Iím disgusted by the amount of money that mannatech and their associates charge for this product. Because they buy things in huge quantities they probably make a container for three or four dollars. I know the associates will all stick to their mantra because some of them do this for a living. But because this product really helps people wouldnít it be better if people who do take it could take more of it and still save money. And what about the people that canít afford it? Maybe if they know there is a way that doesnít take much effort and is 75% less expensive they will try it and enhance their health. I hope people will be willing to take a chance and do it themselves. Itís not difficult and it will save people a lot of money. Again, thanks for everything."

- Pilotlight

If you want to sell it to your friends and get them to pay you money so that you can buy the actual product from Mannatech, great.  Just do that.  No one actually gets it for free, just other people paying an exhorbitant price to give you money so that you can buy a supplement for an exorbitant price.  Funny thing is, the company gets all the money either way.  But that is what they are in business for.  (We have roughly calculated that they most likely pay less than $10.00 each to make this supplement, especially if we can put together the ingredients "retail" for about $25.00).

If you are a salesman, or if you are rich, just buy the supplement from them.  If you want to save some money and get the exact same ingredients, from the same companies, Mannatech uses then do that.  Its up to you.  Hopefully kittycat's friends have signed up enough people under them that they don't have to worry about that monthly medical bill too.

Kittycat, I'm glad your friend is getting better, however Reg McDaniels "research" is sales hype at present, and there is no evidence that his recovery is because of stem cells.  You don't even have the scientific expertise to evaluate the quality of his research or if he is outright lying to you, and his research has NEVER been submitted for scrutiny by other researchers.  I could say that it is secondary to growth factors stimulated by the absorption of large amounts of short-chain fatty acids, or several other unsupported theories, that would be just as valid.  The bottom line is, your friend is improving and you have ZERO evidence HOW the supplement is working.  

Great, it is working, but trying to convince the public this supplements superiority by false science is wrong.  

Wow, I guess I do have a chip.  But at least I don't make a profit from it.  So I would have to say it is a more objective chip than others.  

By the way, FYI, in case you read other 'miracle' stories from people of what glyconutrients can cure, I bring everyone's attention to the following link about a Doctor who published a miraculous study of glyconutrients effects on a boy, (who at the time of the publication had already died.)

http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/Mannatech/complaint.html [nofollow]

And with that I bid you good day.

Just call me Chip.
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #36 on: 24/04/2005 19:41:47 »
Don't you think giving people a more reasonably priced alternative of the same ingredients is helping people?  I do.  

As I said before, I am glad your friend is doing well with these supplements.  I don't have a problem with the ingredients, just the ethics and science (or lack thereof) of the people selling them.  

I hope, REALLY HOPE, that those people looking for objective information and an alternative (using the same ingredients) access this forum, and any others I find, and use the information I provide to help them just as much as your friend is being helped by the expensive supplement.

Your loyalty seems to be more to Mannatech and your pocketbook than to the truth and actual science.  Which makes you more of a salesman than a kind, concerned friend who is helping the masses.

Does your friends parents know that there is a more reasonably priced alternative with the same ingredients?  Lets see how much of a friend you really are.

By the way, I am in an alternative health profession, and am very OPEN MINDED of results, but I won't compromise my commitment to truth just because some company I like promotes and unscientific theory that has so far been proven false. Would I recommend these ingredients to someone in a similar situation as 'Rob?'...Yes.  Would I lie about how it works to sell it to someone?...No

 Duane
 

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Offline mannamom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #37 on: 25/04/2005 15:58:13 »
Duane...

I must side with Cathy. you have been nothing short of rude! Lets hear about your profession. I bet you feel you provide a good service, well, I bet someone out there would easily rip it apart because they feel they are superior. You sit there and cut down our PROVEN science and docs....who are you????

Rene

 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #38 on: 26/04/2005 04:05:25 »
Proven science and docs?  What proof?  

Even the researchers at Mannatech have not been able to find even one scientific reference showing that what I have said is not true.  Nor their #3 salesperson.  You call it PROVEN, but have no evidence to support it.  

Sorry you find it rude to read the truth.  I'm just educating the public, and giving them a reasonably priced alternative.

As for homemade glyconutrients.  There are several on the Curezone forum that have been making and taking them, and they have been doing great.  I'll let you know if I hear any horror stories...None yet.  (Hey, it is the SAME ingredients made by the SAME companies, so don't expect to get many takers to your request).

I apologize if my previous posts took a personal bent and were rude concerning your integrity and motivation concerning the people that you have told about these supplements.  Being that you are not objective parties concerning Mannatech since you do get paid when others buy it, so you can see the conflict-of-interest.  Of course, if you have been giving your profits directly to your friends to decrease their costs, I apologize.

Duane
 

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Offline onestep

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #39 on: 12/05/2005 12:55:22 »
Dawson DJ;Burrows PC;Lobley RW;Holmes R;. The kinetics of monosaccharide absorption by human jejunal biopsies: evidence for active and passive processes. Digestion. 1987; 38: 124-132.
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #40 on: 13/05/2005 21:43:04 »
Onestep:

Your reference is about "monosaccharides" or the individual sugars.  No one questions whether the individual sugars can be digested, but the ingredients in Ambrotose are NOT monosaccharides, they are beta-linked polysaccharides, which to date, all studies say are non-digestible (cannot be broken into the individual sugars), so your reference is meaningless concerning glyconutrient mechanism of action.

 

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #41 on: 16/05/2005 09:42:10 »
Main component of Glyconutrients is revealed by careful analysis.


It consists of  99.9% SPAM

The tins of SPAM are arranged in bulk to form a giant pyramid

This Pyramid emits a ray of  false hope quickly seized upon by thousands of people who are out to earn a quick buck off the backs of people desperate for anything that offers a remote chance of assisting illnesses that are often life threatening and to which allopathic medicine is not producing any significant improvements.

The pyramid has already produced over 89 thousand hits on a google search using its name as a search term and the 16th of May 2005!

There has obviously been a tremendous amount of money generated by this pyramid selling scam, and one would expect that this licence to print money could easily produce and reproduce scientific, placebo based double blinded trials to prove or disprove its efficacy.

Yet this is simply not happening, All we see is the emergence of many unsubstantiated individual case histories, expressing somewhat miraculous claims.

The sad part about this, is that it will inevitably add to the FDAís and Eurocrats armoury against food supplements, many of which do indeed offer significant benefits to people who wish to avoid the myriad side effects from prescription drugs.

There is a move to have many of our vitamins and food supplements removed from the shelves of health stores, or to have their potency reduced to levels where they are useless, and this scam is playing right into the FDA and Eurocrats arms!  When this SPAM Pyramid bubble burst, and it will! The vultures will simply find another carcass to gorge upon.

I f this product does what it is supposed to do, You wonít even have to change the oil in your engine, houses will build themselves, the dead will rise again, and the deserts will turn green and flourish.

Where is the hard evidence????????????????????????????????????????????


 
Glyconutrients will play a major role in what economists are predicting to be the next trillion-dollar industry- the Wellness Industry. Are you ready to take your piece of the trillion-dollar pie by marketing and educating others about Glyconutrients and their benefits? Anyone who cares about their health and the health of others can be successful in this business if they are teachable, coachable and trainable. Your primary mission is to expose people to this information and let the educational and support tools to educate your prospects about the benefits of the products and the business opportunity. Does that sound like something you can do? And with our team approach, even though you are in business for yourself, you are never by yourself. You'll love the support system.
I remember being roped in to a Foreverliving products seminar, thanks to a friend who would insist that we were going to earn many thousands of pounds with minimum outlay. I told her it was a scam, and sure enough, this guy was trying to convince us that he experienced a miracle or three after taking alovera juice. He apparently healed his injuries, an internal medical problem, all the pain left his body, and he grew a third leg to boot. I had heard enough within a few minutes and we got up and left.. But there were several hundred people that didnít leave, all with a blank expression shielded by £ signs in their brains.
Another venue when I was a lot younger was Golden Products, this was a range of household cleaning stuff, grossly over priced and sold under a pyramid scheme. My friend and I went to London and stayed in a hotel free of charge. But our reason for being there was to have a day in London at their expense, skipping out on all the bull. We had a great time thanks to them
I ASK AGAIN: WHERE IS THE HARD EVIDENCE FOR THE EFFICACY OF THIS PRODUCT? A quick search on pubmed produced 2 returns, from 2 vague trials, which lead me to ask, where is all the money going????? Maybe they have donated to the Tsunami victims families?

Andrew
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline quietman18

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #42 on: 19/05/2005 01:22:32 »
Does anyone know if glyconutrients have helped with the treatment of fibromyalgia ? I have seen claims of it doing so from websites with a vested interest, so would like an unbias opinion.

Thanks.
 

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Offline Thorp

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #43 on: 19/05/2005 08:44:53 »
SPAM ALERT, SPAM ALERT


quote:
Originally posted by quietman18

Does anyone know if glyconutrients have helped with the treatment of fibromyalgia ? I have seen claims of it doing so from websites with a vested interest, so would like an unbias opinion.

Thanks.



There is a special glyconutrient, fucoidan, found in its most abundant form and most activated and bioavailable state in Original Limu based on 15 years of development of the non-chemical, proprietary extraction process of the seaweed limu moui. Much information can be found in Rita Elkins' book, Limu Moui, which is available in most health food stores.  She summarizes that an good extract of this seaweed has anti-cancer, anti-tumor, anti-inflammatory, anti-viral and anti-bacterial properties plus providing the body an exceptional immune boost as well as a moisturizing and rejuvenizing effect on the skin.

In fact, it does anything you want it to, except dry up torrents of SPAM

Probably its most profound effect is the doubling of the size of my wallet since I discovered it. Amazing how vulnerable and ill people will believe, and PAY, anything if I just feed them enough garbage to make them believe that it works.


Regarding fibromyalgia, I personally know of a woman who was about to be institutionalized with a combination of a fibromyalgia and lupus condition.  These were complicated by an arthritic conditions as well.  The woman I know today bounces CHEQUES around like nobody's business, BECAUSE SHE SPENT ALL HER MONEY ON SPAM - but she had been so bad off that she had to have a clock placed on her ceiling as she was restricted to bed and could not stand the pain of turning her head to look at the clock on the wall.  I know a number of other people personally with autoimmune diseases as well who are like new people today following their daily consumption of Original Limu.

The key component in Original Limu is fucoidan which is found only in sea-based plants.  Besides all the other tremendous nutritious components in limu moui including vitamins, amino acids, essential fatty acids, anti-oxidants, glyconutrients, live enzymes, and particularly the whole spectrum of minerals and trace elements in colloidal form found in the sea which our blood emulates, and still others, the fucoidan in limu moui stands out as perhaps the greatest nutrient and immune booster ever discovered.  The scientific and medical establishment is taking an ever greater interest as well as the studies on fucoidan have been growing exponentially since the mid-1970ís in the database of the National Library of Medicine at newbielink:http://www.pubmed.gov [nonactive].  Anyone can go to this database and search the word fucoidan and turn up now over 600 studies and can narrow those studies to issues of interest simply by adding an additional word or more like cancer or tumor or tumors or carcinogen or carcinoma, immune, blood or platelets or leukocyte, inflammation or inflammatory, liver or hepatitis, lung or pulmonary, heart or cardiovascular, pancreatic or diabetes or insulin, virus or viral, bacteria or bacterial, wound or wounds, surgery, skin or dermatitis or dermal, etc.

So why is Original Limu the best source of this limu moui extract?  It is for very good reason that Original Limu is called the one, the only, the original!  It is the only proprietary non-chemical optimized extract on the market with proven value having over 15 years of research and development supporting it.  It is also harvested from the pristine pure waters of the Tongan Islands of the South Pacific where there are no pollutants or heavy metals contaminating the water due to industry or large-scale agriculture.  The people of the Tongan Islands have been consuming limu moui for over 3000 years and attribute their great vitality and good health and longevity to limu moui.

All the other seaweed products, like Sea Vegg, that seem to be multiplying monthly, are just trying to jockey for position for attracting the uninformed.  And, what a shame that people will be side-tracked from what looks to be the greatest health discovery of our time, Original Limu.  Our wretched Western diet polluted with preservatives and additives and sugar substitutes, etc. and our societyís one-dimensional focus on the economics of food distribution such as shelf life and premature harvesting almost totally eclipses any nutritional focus.  Also, our Western culture almost single-mindedly focuses on medicine that almost exclusively treats only the symptom and not the basis or underlying cause of a disease.  With this in mind, Original Limu is, in all reality, a Godsend for our nation and a world that we Westerners have infected with our poor nutritional and pill-pushing culture.  

Our bodies were designed for a particular kind of care including good, wholesome and complete foods and such is available in spades through Original Limu. If we feed the body what it needs, it can regulate its chemical machinery and heals itself as it was designed to do as evidenced by a cut on our finger healing itself or our overcoming a cold or flu with just rest and plenty of water.  In fact, that is what medicine is suppose to be all about, helping the body heal itself!  Hippocrates is the Father of Modern Day Medicine with all doctors having to take the Hippocratic oath.  Hippocrates says ďLet food be your medicine and your medicine be your food.Ē  Our Western diet miserably misses the mark!  And in spite of his cautioning, ďAbove all, do no harm,Ē we poison ourselves with the often-horrendous side effects of man-made medicines that are promoted shamelessly on the airways by the pharmaceutical companies hoping that they can make the advertising enticement so powerful that people will in essence self-prescribe by going doctor shopping until they get what was promoted to them over the airways.

Regarding Dr. Strand and his recommendation of the USANA supplements, I respect him as a doctor for his nutritional perspective and I have personally tried USANA supplements and found them valuable but nothing like Original Limu.  USANA supplements are a product of man and his science; Original Limu is a natural product from the Creator, who has the full picture of our needs and the exact amounts needed.  I have also tried natural products like Barley Green or Barley Life also with some value but again nothing like Original Limu.  I have shopped for organic foods but they are nothing next to Original Limu.  I have heard of Noni and Mangosteen and green teas, etc.  None of these are sea-based natural products and, thus, none of them have the whole spectrum of minerals and trace elements nor, most importantly, do they contain fucoidan and none of them hold a candle to Original Limu.  Nothing in the health and wellness industry compares to Original Limu outside of good health practices like good nutrition, plenty of rest, plenty of exercise, plenty of pure water and fresh air drawn deeply into the lungs, sunshine, temperance and trust in God.

Now, I rarely take anything else but Original Limu and save a bundle of money and experience incredible, even miraculous health as in the case of the throbbing pain in my right arm disappearing where decompression with fusing surgery on my 3-5th cervical vertebrae was unsuccessful.  My skin is vibrant and no longer a flaky mess.  My sinuses and asthma are back under control.  I sleep much better.  I have more energy.  Even my toe and finger nails are supple and healthy again.  And, if ever I do come down with something by pushing myself too hard, the immune-boosting anti-viral, anti-bacterial and anti-inflammatory functions of the fucoidan gets me over it in a day or two without my ever having to see a doctor or get an anti-inflammatory and antibiotic.  The savings alone in doctor bills and supplement costs easily pays for my Original Limu.  Anyway, I simply cannot live without Original Limu!  

Email me at tfbail@sbcglobal.net or call me at 979-297-1919 and I will tell you of more stories I know about first hand, even of those with whom I have shared first-hand myself as with my son with acne and ADD / ADHD, a friend with multiple sclerosis, another friend with hepatitis, another with high cholesterol, triglycerides and LDL/HLDL ratio, another with migraine headaches, another with sinus headaches, another with chronic fatigue, another with an open wound in his leg for over 20 years without healing, another with scar tissue from adolescent acne fading away in her mid forties, another person experiencing her tumors and cancer receding and disappearing, another being better able to cope with chemotherapy and radiation treatment, another coming back from short-term memory loss and dementia, another with disabilities from two car accidents involving drunk drivers and high blood pressure and high blood sugar, and the stories keep unfolding daily and I havenít even mentioned the many stories of other people outside those with whom I have personally shared Original Limu.  We now have a physician in our area who is directing his patients to Original Limu as he sees the hopelessness of the over-medication that Western medication has to offer as in the case of one medication being prescribed merely to mitigate the side effects of another medication!

I will conclude by making it clear that I am not a medical doctor.  I only hold a Ph.D. degree in organic chemistry and have been in active personal study of the health and wellness industry since 1997 when I was getting sick more often and required an anti-inflammatory in order for prescribed antibiotics to work.  Thus, I do not or will not prescribe, treat, diagnose in regards to any disease or condition.   Original Limu is simply a natural and spectacularly nutritious food by which the body can perform optimally in healing itself.  

 

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Offline thedoc

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #44 on: 19/05/2005 10:49:25 »
SPAM ALERT, SPAM ALERT

This bloke is about as worried about your health as I am about his.

This is a complete load of crap.

I have locked his login so he cannot return to alter the content of this post, from which I have removed the multiple references to his own website, leaving behind just his key-phrase rich content.

So now, every time someone searches for his crappy website, they'll also find our's. And whenever he goes promoting his website, he'll also be advertising our's.

Thanks Thorpe. Have a nice day.

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Offline comely

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #45 on: 20/05/2005 01:56:55 »
I'm not a scientist,  but stumbled across this website because my friend insists I try Mannatech's products.  When she told me the price, I was floored.  I've been enthralled by your back and forth over Glyconutrients.  I can see Kittycat's attempt to sell for sure.  She would be happy to know that my friend insists it is "curing" her husbands symptoms of possible luekemia.  He has not thrown up for 3 months and is slowly gaining his weight back,  which prompted me to do some searching.  
  I want to thank Duane. Your recommendation of the glyco-cocktail is very helpful.  Can we "talk"?
I have irritable bowel and endometriosis-I have been taking Alive! Whole food energizer by Nature's way.  I'm a big skeptic on Vitamins,  but for the past 2 years I have felt better.  Not great, but definitely have gained more appetite.  Should I think about looking into your cocktail,  and how much of all that stuff am I supposed to use per product?  I don't want to wake up with night sweats!  Thanks for your response.  

A layman that knows nothing really,  but so much more!  [:D]
 

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Offline ChristianElliot

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #46 on: 26/05/2005 22:38:22 »
Hey all,

Wow, what a spirited dialogue you have going!  I happened upon this dialogue because a neighbor stumbled across someone's attempt to recreate Ambtrotose on their own.  Interesting endeavor.  (By the way the new Ambrotose is a good deal less money)  Anyway, I thought I might add my two cents to some of what I read.  First, an observation: there is nothing inherently flawed with bringing a product to market and making a profit off of it.  It's how everyone makes a living.  Right?  We could "trade blows" all day about when doing so crosses a threshold and tends toward greed.  That won't get anywhere.  

I honestly think the assessment that Mannatech is a money grabbing company is well, uninformed.  Are the exceptions in any organization, of course, but let's look at the big picture.  Ambrotose works.  A close family friend who had severe fibromyalgia for 10 years no longer has it, and hasn't for about two years now.  (I know, I know, "andedotal" cries the skeptic, but that's a darn good placebo.)  The people who say Ambrotose does not work are the same people who have not spent any time around people who have tried it over a long period of time.  Am I wrong?  Doctors who have, swear by it from everything I've seen.  Check out Dr. John Rollins of the US Patent office and his interview in the Atlana Voice Newspaper (August, 2004) for starters.

Marketing this discovery of necessary carbohydrates through a network was not the first choice.  The problem was it didn't sell when it sat on a health food store shelf.  The aloe discovery of Mannose did so for around a decade!  Why?  Because people didn't understand it's magnitude, and low quality copycats ruled the checkout stands.  So what's a company to do with that situation?  Do you take out big loans to try to spread the word through expensive advertising to an inherently skeptical public, or change the way you market the stuff?  

Is network marketing perfect?  Of course not.  Some get into the industry for all the wrong reasons, and give the whole industry a bad wrap because of it.  But how many of you would have heard about glyconutrients without Mannatech?  ANYONE?  How many other incredible health related discoveries have not made the news for lack of funding to promote what was learned?  Because of Mannatech (whether you choose to buy from them or not) you at least you know about something that can dramatically improve someone's quality of life.  If you have the stamina to source everything in Ambrotose, and try to recreate it, all the best to you.  (I don't personally have the expensive lab equipment to ensure I'm doing it right.)  For my money I'd rather know that the amounts I'm getting have been carefully tested and are precise and potent.  I'm glad to pay top dollar for someone to save me the time so that I can spend my time elsewhere (like on these exciting chat rooms).

Shoot, with enough effort I could recreate just about anything I buy, but my ability to do so doesn't make the company trying to sell the same thing to me inherenetly evil.  Or how about this question: Are doctors evil for rendering their services?  Afterall, they are running a business that is seeking to make money from you.  

As for the greed/cost issue, has anyone taken the time to look into MannaRELIEF?   newbielink:http://www.mannarelief.org [nonactive]  This is Mannatech's non-profit arm that prodives/donates these nutrients to children (in something like 40 countries) and doesn't make a cent.  I'm sure the glyco concoction suggested above can't beat that price!  Mannarelief gets Ambrotose AT COST, also funds large independent clinical studies, and even occasionally can give to adult charities. At a gathering of Mannatech associates in March of 05, 8,000 of those "greedy" people contributed $300,000 to MannaRelief.  MannaRelief also ponied up $250,000 to help fund the Global Aids Awarness Program.  Does that help add perspective for anyone?  I hope so.  If Mannatech didn't pay assocaites they'd have to spend even bigger bucks, I suspect, on advertising.  That wouldn't lower the cost at all.  Every company makes a profit.  If they don't there is no product.  Mannatech is not somehow unique.  They have a business to run.    

  Is Mannatech perfect?  No.  No institution/company/system is.  Are they doing the best they can to market something that is one of the few genuine breakthroughs in nutrition?  I believe they are.  It's easy to find postings on the internet that bad mouth this or that.  If it really matters that much to you, fly to Dallas and talk with their science team.  That's real investigation, googling, well...  The science team at Mannatech is no group of slackers I'll assure you.  You can view their crediential on the site.  One final bit of perspective I'll add as a juxtoposition to Mannatech is the chart below that shows the mark-up costs of prescription drugs.  Have a look at the chart.  The % number shows the actual mark-up.  Makes you sick doesn't it!

Here's to your health,

Christian

BRAND NAME OF DRUG CONSUMER PRICE 100 TABS  

COST OF GENERAL ACTIVE INGREDIENTS        PERCENT MARKUP
                                          Retail Cost                      Mark-up
Celebrex 100 mg      -   $130.27         $0.60                     21,712%
Claritin 10 mg            -   $215.17         $0.71                     30,306%
Keflex 250 mg           -   $157.39         $1.88                       8,372%
Lipitor 20 mg             -   $272.37         $5.80          ;             4,696%
Norvasc 10 mg          -   $188.29         $0.14                   134,493%
Paxil 20 mg                -   $220.27         $7.60                        2,898%
Prevacid 30 mg         -   $44.77           $1.01                      34,136%
Prilosec 20 mg          -   $360.97         $0.52                      69,417%
Prozac 20 mg            -   $247.47         $0.11                    224,973%
Tenormin 50 mg        -   $104.47         $0.13                      80,362%
Vasotec 10 mg          -   $102.37         $0.20                       51,185%
Xanax 1mg                -   $136.79         $0.024                    569,958%
Zestril 20 mg              -   $89.89            $3.20                         2,809%
Zithromax 600mg      -   $1,482.19       $18.78                       7,892%
Zocor 40mg               -   $350.27           $8.63     ;                   4,059%
Zoloft 50mg               -   $206.87            $1.75                       11,821%
 

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Offline ChristianElliot

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #47 on: 26/05/2005 22:44:20 »
Oh, and here are a couple names of people who worked with Ambrotose with tremendous results.  

Dr. Martin Milner (of the Health Science Institute).  After years of research on Ambrotose, he said "What was unproven in 1996 is now a compelling necessity of medical care in 2004.  At this point it would be unethical if I withheld the value and benefit of glyconutrient from my patients and medical students."  

Dr. John Axford of the Royal Soceity of Medicine in England.  Check out his work with Ambrotose and Rheumatoid Arthritis.  

Dr. Ben Carson of John's Hopkins University has spoken at two Mannatech Events at his own experience with Ambrotose.

Happy Research

Christian
 

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #48 on: 27/05/2005 17:59:41 »
Hi Christian There goes that Darn Spam again!

Isn't Manna relief coined to closely resemble Manna from Heaven, meaning Money from Heaven? Therefore isn't Manna relief someone trying to relieve one of ones money? Or is that just another coincidence?

Glad you mentioned aloe and the pyramid scams. Aloe is actually a fantastic plant derivitive for burns and skin abrasions, and maybe even a few internal problems. This was all it needed to satisfy the massive industries that "became cultivated by the desert plant". The plant itself can be obtained from garden centres and is quite happy living on a sunny window until you burn yourself and need to rub the juice on it. So how did they manage to develop it into a multi-billion dollar business? Exactly! They piled it all up into a gian pyramid, where it emmited rays of hope, roping in everyone that wanted to earn a fast buck off the backs of people in desperate need for anything that offers a glimmmer of hope.

This business does not seem very Christian like to me!

Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline snookrz_2000

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #49 on: 01/06/2005 18:55:25 »
wasn't the term 'manna' from the bible... referring to food? I don't think it was talking about money...