[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Some more great mind who believe in a creator like I do.

PART I. Nobel Scientists (20-21 Century)
Albert Einstein Nobel Laureate in Physics Jewish
Max Planck Nobel Laureate in Physics Protestant
Erwin Schrodinger Nobel Laureate in Physics Catholic
Werner Heisenberg Nobel Laureate in Physics Lutheran
Robert Millikan Nobel Laureate in Physics probably Congregationalist
Charles Hard Townes Nobel Laureate in Physics United Church of Christ (raised Baptist)
Arthur Schawlow Nobel Laureate in Physics Methodist
William D. Phillips Nobel Laureate in Physics Methodist
William H. Bragg Nobel Laureate in Physics Anglican
Guglielmo Marconi Nobel Laureate in Physics Catholic and Anglican
Arthur Compton Nobel Laureate in Physics Presbyterian
Arno Penzias Nobel Laureate in Physics Jewish
Nevill Mott Nobel Laureate in Physics Anglican
Isidor Isaac Rabi Nobel Laureate in Physics Jewish
Abdus Salam Nobel Laureate in Physics Muslim
Antony Hewish Nobel Laureate in Physics Christian (denomination?)
Joseph H. Taylor, Jr. Nobel Laureate in Physics Quaker
Alexis Carrel Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Catholic
John Eccles Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Catholic
Joseph Murray Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Catholic
Ernst Chain Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Jewish
George Wald Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Jewish
Ronald Ross Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Christian (denomination?)
Derek Barton Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Christian (denomination?)
Christian Anfinsen Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Jewish
Walter Kohn Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Jewish
Richard Smalley Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Christian (denomination?)
PART II. Nobel Writers (20-21 Century)
T.S. Eliot Nobel Laureate in Literature Anglo-Catholic (Anglican)
Rudyard Kipling Nobel Laureate in Literature Anglican
Alexander Solzhenitsyn Nobel Laureate in Literature Russian Orthodox
François Mauriac Nobel Laureate in Literature Catholic
Hermann Hesse Nobel Laureate in Literature Christian; Buddhist?
Winston Churchill Nobel Laureate in Literature Anglican
Jean-Paul Sartre Nobel Laureate in Literature Lutheran; Freudian; Marxist; atheist; Messianic Jew
Sigrid Undset Nobel Laureate in Literature Catholic (previously Lutheran)
Rabindranath Tagore Nobel Laureate in Literature Hindu
Rudolf Eucken Nobel Laureate in Literature Christian (denomination?)
Isaac Singer Nobel Laureate in Literature Jewish
PART III. Nobel Peace Laureates (20-21 Century)
Albert Schweitzer Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Lutheran
Jimmy Carter Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Baptist (former Southern Baptist)
Theodore Roosevelt Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Dutch Reformed; Episcopalian
Woodrow Wilson Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Presbyterian
Frederik de Klerk Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Dutch Reformed
Nelson Mandela Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Christian (denomination?)
Kim Dae-Jung Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Catholic
Dag Hammarskjold Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Christian (denomination?)
Martin Luther King, Jr. Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Baptist
Adolfo Perez Esquivel Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Catholic
Desmond Tutu Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Anglican
John R. Mott Nobel Peace Prize Laureate  Methodist
Part IV. Founders of Modern Science (16-21 Century)
Isaac Newton Founder of Classical Physics and Infinitesimal Calculus Anglican (rejected Trinitarianism, i.e., Athanasianism;
believed in the Arianism of the Primitive Church)
Galileo Galilei Founder of Experimental Physics Catholic
Nicolaus Copernicus Founder of Heliocentric Cosmology Catholic (priest)
Johannes Kepler Founder of Physical Astronomy and Modern Optics Lutheran
Francis Bacon Founder of the Scientific Inductive Method Anglican
René Descartes Founder of Analytical Geometry and Modern Philosophy Catholic
Blaise Pascal Founder of Hydrostatics, Hydrodynamics,
and the Theory of Probabilities Jansenist
Michael Faraday Founder of Electronics and Electro-Magnetics Sandemanian
James Clerk Maxwell Founder of Statistical Thermodynamics Presbyterian; Anglican; Baptist
Lord Kelvin Founder of Thermodynamics and Energetics Anglican
Robert Boyle Founder of Modern Chemistry Anglican
William Harvey Founder of Modern Medicine Anglican (nominal)
John Ray Founder of Modern Biology and Natural History Calvinist (denomination?)
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz German Mathematician and Philosopher,
Founder of Infinitesimal Calculus Lutheran
Charles Darwin Founder of the Theory of Evolution Anglican (nominal); Unitarian
Ernst Haeckel German Biologist,
the Most Influential Evolutionist in Continental Europe   
Thomas H. Huxley English Biologist and Evolutionist,
Famous As "Darwin's Bulldog"
Joseph J. Thomson Nobel Laureate in Physics, Discoverer of the Electron,
Founder of Atomic Physics Anglican
Louis Pasteur Founder of Microbiology and Immunology Catholic
Part V. Great Philosophers (17-21 Century)
Immanuel Kant One of the Greatest Philosophers
in the History of Western Philosophy Lutheran
Jean-Jacques Rousseau Founder of Modern Deism born Protestant;
converted as a teen to Catholic
Voltaire French Philosopher and Historian,
One of the Most Influential Thinkers of the Enlightenment raised in Jansenism
David Hume Scottish Empiricist Philosopher, Historian, and Economist,

Founder of Modern Skepticism Church of Scotland (Presbyterian)
Spinoza Dutch-Jewish Philosopher,
the Chief Exponent of Modern Rationalism Judaism; later

pantheism/deism
Giordano Bruno Italian Philosopher, Astronomer, and Mathematician,

Founder of the Theory of the Infinite Universe Catholic
George Berkeley Irish Philosopher and Mathematician, Founder of Modern Idealism,

Famous as "The Precursor of Mach and Einstein" Anglican
John Stuart Mill English Philosopher and Economist,
the Major Exponent of Utilitarianism agnostic; Utilitarian

Richard Swinburne Oxford Professor of Philosophy,
One of the Most Influential Theistic Philosophers 
PART VI. Other Religious Nobelists

60 more Nobel Prize winners are listed

(32 scientists, 17 writers, 11 Nobel Nobel Peace Laureates)
PART VII. Nobelists, Philosophers, and Scientists on Jesus
Quotes by 16 individuals about their beliefs about Jesus
- Alexis Carrel
- Albert Einstein
- Arthur Compton
- Robert Millikan
- Francois Mauriac
- Sigrid Undset
- T.S. Eliot
- Mother Theresa
- Albert Schweitzer
- Theodore Roosevelt
- Frederik de Klerk
- John R. Mott
- Kim Dae-Jung
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
- Jimmy Carter
- Blaise Pascal 

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Great mind "that do not believe in a creator" to be fair,


political leaders
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
John Adams
Abraham Lincoln
Susan B. Anthony
Benjamin Franklin
Robert G. Ingersoll
Ulysses S. Grant
George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
philosophers
Karl Marx
Sigmund Freud
Friedrich Nietzsche
Voltaire
Epicurus
Aristotle
Sir Francis Bacon
scientists
Charles Darwin
Albert Einstein
Thomas Edison
Stephen Hawking
Carl Sagan
Galileo Galilei
Francis Bacon, Sir
Richard Dawkins
artists and entertainers
Gene Roddenberry
Jesse "the body" Ventura
Woody Allen
Charlie Chaplin
Andy Rooney
Katharine Hepburn
Marlon Brando
writers
Samuel Clemens /Mark Twain
George Bernard Shaw
Ernest Hemingway
Isaac Asimov
Arthur C. Clarke
Stephen King
Edgar Allan Poe
Bertrand Russell
Oscar Wilde
Ayn Rand
Thomas Paine
other
Frank Lloyd Wright

[BenV]

Alan - I suggest you read the "Can anyone provide proof of NO afterlife" thread, to see how likely you are to get proof of a negative. 

Simply put, as a believer in a sky fairy (of any kind - be it one that created the world in 6 days, one that only 'guides' creation, or a monster made of spaghetti), it is your responsibility to prove that it exists.  Until you have proof, it is just your delusion (even if it's a delusion you share with many others).  The burden of proof falls on you to provide evidence for the existence of your particular deity.

[Bored chemist]

Technically it's not the theists' job to prove that God exists. However, if they want me to act as if He does then they need to prove it. Also, if they want to avoid being seen as irrational they need some sort of rationalisation for their belief.
Now, I can't prove that God doesn't exist, any more than I can prove there are no Fairies at the bottom of my garden (they might hide when I look for them).
On the other hand I can use Occam's razot to justify my belief that there's no God.

Also, as a technicallity you can't say that the God squad are delusional for believing in God- it might not be a delusion- they might be right. The delusion is thinking that there's any real evidence for God.

[DoctorBeaver]

My sister who is now in the death throes of breast and liver cancer has a deep belief in god and that there is purpose even in her suffering.

Must I know go and bombard her with Darwinian dogma and take away her meaning for living?

Absolutely not, as far as I'm concerned. I already said that I will support your right to believe whatever you wish. I will support anyone's right to that. If your sister finds comfort in her beliefs, that's fine & I'm glad for her. Religion is an excellent palliative.

What I will NOT support though, and I will resist it with all means at my disposal, is having religious zealots trying to ram their beliefs down my throat and threatening my way of life because it doesn't conform to their credo (No, Alan, I'm not aiming that at you).

(Incidentally, I wouldn't call Darwinism a dogma. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support it. If you want to see dogma, look to religions & politics.)

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

People thank you all,  again I was not trying to convert anyone to silly religious dogma or doctrine, just debate sensibly about an intelligent designer being the author of the universe and indeed all of existence.

What I will NOT support though, and I will resist it with all means at my disposal, is having religious zealots trying to ram their beliefs down my throat and threatening my way of life because it doesn't conform to their credo (No, Alan, I'm not aiming that at you).

Thank you this was not my intention and I dislike fundamental nonsense like a 6 day creation 4004 years ago etc, just as  much as you do. I  also believe the universe is very very old on our time scale, indeed near the postulated 14/15 billion years.

The only place where I differ from you guys is that I believe an intelligent mind could be behind it all, maybe not acting in a direct manner, but remote and distant like Einsteins god of Spinoza, sort of nudging and tweaking here and there when neccessary..

Regards

Alan

[Madidus_Scientia]

"You do not have to repeat what Darwinism is all about and you are all wrongly assuming I have no concept of evolution.

Do I come over as some sort of an ignoramus or what?

Hmm well let's see...

If for instance we took a hypothetical analogy of millions of Boeing 747 airplanes, full of bricks, mortar and water, and dropped all this, at random upon the earth at once, would the result ever be the one of the glorious building constructions we see all around us, such as the wonderful beautiful Taj Mahal or the Sydney Opera house that was created, designed and built by mere mortal humanity? A trillion billion monkeys bashing at a billion typewriters for a billion years would never produce even one of Shaspears sonnets much less than the infinitely more complex DNA molecule.

Yes. That is in no way an analogy to evolution. That is a straw man argument.

And listing hundreds of reknown people who believed in a creator will convince no atheists of anything, they are generally people who can think for themselves without following what others think blindly. And why did you list Albert Einstein?

[DoctorBeaver]

The only place where I differ from you guys is that I believe an intelligent mind could be behind it all,

I haven't said there isn't an intelligence behind it all. The case isn't proven either way. I just happen to think that the evidence against is far more convincing.

[_Stefan_]

Alan, Einstein did not believe in a god who interfered with the universe once it was created. Einstein was more of a pantheist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

The only intelligent minds associated with this universe that we know of were produced by almost 4 billion years of evolution.

The universe runs itself. It does not need help. The fact that it got to the way it is all on its own makes it that much more beautiful and amazing than if it was indeed designed. Why not accept it and appreciate it the way it is? Why ruin it by inventing a designer?

Is it really a sensible debate if one side contends the existence of an imaginary being, offers no evidence, and provides only weak argument and logic?

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Doctor Beaver,

Re-reading all the good replies posted i saw this one I overlooked.

A question I've asked a few creationists and not yet had a coherent reply to - if God created us and made this planet for us to live on, why did he make it such a dangerous place (with earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, tsunami, etc)? Surely, any being powerful enough to have created the universe could have put us somewhere a bit safer.

If god were to put us in a sort of cushy everlasting paradise, with no challenges grapes as large as pumpkins growing everywhere, no geological events, everything just growing there, no need for homes because the climate is always perfect no death no suffering, no darkness only beautiful light and warm sunlight get my drift?

After a hundred years, we might like it after a thousand maybe still like it, after a million years, man!! We would start to be really pissed off with our never changing stupid companions and a billion years heaven would have become an unimaginable boring “Hell”

I hope my reply is more intelligent than those you received from idiot creationist who cant think beyond their very short noses.

See were I am coming from?

Regards

Alan

[DoctorBeaver]

Alan - your reply may apply were we immortal; but that is not the case. We wouldn't each be around for a million years to get bored with it.

[paul.fr]

Alan,

can I just ask what you mean by the following?

"Re-reading all the good replies posted i saw this one I overlooked."
Good replies! Are you saying that there were some bad replies? Did these good people give up their time to post replies only for them to be categorised good or bad?

"If god were to put us in a sort of cushy everlasting paradise, with no challenges grapes as large as pumpkins growing everywhere, no geological events, everything just growing there, no need for homes because the climate is always perfect no death no suffering, no darkness only beautiful light and warm sunlight get my drift?
"

Possibly not. Are you saying that plagues and pestilence, not to mention war, famine, hunger...the list goes on...are put here by your god to keep us on our toes and so we don't get bored?

"After a hundred years, we might like it after a thousand maybe still like it, after a million years, man!! We would start to be really pissed off with our never changing stupid companions and a billion years heaven would have become an unimaginable boring “Hell”"
Why would they be never changing? Would they not evolve? Oh, and it generally takes only a few years (days, or months) to become pissed of with our companions.

"I hope my reply is more intelligent than those you received from idiot creationist who cant think beyond their very short noses."
So, you don't like people challenging your idea of a god, but are quite happy to call others idiots for what they believe!

"See were I am coming from?"
Not really.

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Doctor Beaver and others

Alan - your reply may apply were we immortal; but that is not the case. We wouldn't each be around for a million years to get bored with it

Perhaps you don't get my point, immortality is impossible for any biological entity and indeed our sun earth and even perhaps the universe. "There is relentless entropy to contend with"

Paul

Are you saying that there were some bad replies? Did these good people give up their time to post replies only for them to be categorised good or bad

You are  over sensitive I meant "ALL THE REPLIES WERE SOUND GOOD LOGIC AND I THANKED EVERY ONE FOR THEIR TIME AND EFFORTS FOR THEM" Where the heck did I categorise anybody ??

Possibly not. Are you saying that plagues and pestilence, not to mention war, famine, hunger...the list goes on...are put here by your god to keep us on our toes and so we don't get bored

Read my posts carefully "it is not my god" "not my paradise" "but that of silly sects , cults and fundamentalist nonsense. Just an attempt to answer a difficult even impossible question, I have absolutely no idea how an infinite being would reason because I am finite

I hope my reply is more intelligent than those you received from idiot creationist who can't think beyond their very short noses

Well I ask the forum was my idea more sensible than the sects, cults, fundamentalists that come knocking at the door and invading our privacy with their idiotic nonsense that they are brain washed with. I spent a whole year trying to reason with one of these people who uninvited by me tried to force his silly ideas on me. And over they years I have been plagued by these people to the point of becoming very angry with their nonsense

So, you don't like people challenging your idea of a god, but are quite happy to call others idiots for what they believeI would not have started this thread if I did not like people challenging my idea of god!

I called no one "idiots on the forum"  and "did not join this forum to trade insults as you have begun to do".


What I meant was believing in a 40 day flood that rose up to cover all the mountains on the earth including mount Everest, god making a rainbow only then, the universe being created in exactly 6004 years on the first of June this kind of nonsense. Ad- infinitum

I could go on and on giving examples of these kinds of stupid beliefs, yes to me idiotic when force down my gullet by unwelcome mislead people knocking at the door. "Their beliefs are idiotic" "not them the are brain washed by this nonsense that is all"

Are you then a creationist If you are come out of the shadow and put your views to the forum?

Make no mistake about it I do not differ at all from the majority of the forum and started this thread as a god believer to generate sensible dialogue and debate on this everlasting subject

Regards

Alan

[DoctorBeaver]

After a hundred years, we might like it after a thousand maybe still like it, after a million years, man!! We would start to be really pissed off with our never changing stupid companions and a billion years heaven would have become an unimaginable boring “Hell”

That sounds like an allusion to immortality.

I spent a whole year trying to reason with one of these people who uninvited by me tried to force his silly ideas on me.

I hope you took plenty of toilet breaks!  []

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Doctor Beaver.

That sounds like an allusion to immortality.

A biological finite entity like tiny weeny Little me  []  [:-'(] and all the rest of humanity will never ever live on a earth paradice, the earth, solar system Etc are finite just like tiny little me.

Entropy will bring us all to and end, life is a critical illness and the prognosis is absolute death for all of humanity.

People I don't believe in 7 day literal creation nonsense just believe in an intelligence out is the great somewhere

My belief is much much closer to yours than that of sects, cults fundamentalist etc etc. I have never belonged to any organised religion as not of them can move me with reasonable facts.
Regards
Alan

i

[paul.fr]

Are you then a creationist If you are come out of the shadow and put your views to the forum?

No I am not a creationist, the church I most associate with is the Federation Of Christian Orthodoxy For Faith.

I am not even hiding in the shadows, I just dislike topics like this one. I simply wanted clarification on what you were trying to put accross. I also offer you an open invitation to find out more about our faith.

Disclaimer:
There is more than one faith, although only one true faith; the mormon faith.

[DoctorBeaver]

There is more than one faith, although only one true faith

Don't they all say that?

[_Stefan_]

Paul, is that Federation a real church or are you kidding?

[Bored chemist]

Actually there are plenty of true faiths. The faith of many people is perfectly true. It;'s just what they believe that's not true. There's a bloke in town hu truly beleives he is Napoleon. His faith in this is perfectly clearly present. It's just that he's wrong.

Incidentally the "Federation Of Christian Orthodoxy For Faith" is within a gnat's fart of having a really unfortunate acronym.

[paul.fr]

There is more than one faith, although only one true faith

Don't they all say that?

Yes. But according to the font of all knowledge, South Park, The Mormons are the only true religion.

Paul, is that Federation a real church or are you kidding?

Stefan, I want it to be a real church...does that count?

Incidentally the "Federation Of Christian Orthodoxy For Faith" is within a gnat's fart of having a really unfortunate acronym.

BC, Have you not read the latest issue of Private Eye?