[Mark Tillotson]

Hi All!

I have tried to find out about the nature of the particles that carries magnetic field (not EM filed), but have not managed it. Can someone of you there explain what particles carries magnetic field if it is carried by particles?

Thanks for all inputs!
manjit

Your problem is in assuming a magnetic field and an e-m field are separate things - they are not, electricy and magnetism are two aspects of the same "stuff" described by Maxwell's equations, and in quantum terms by QED (quantum electro-dynamics).  Photons are the force carrier.

However it is more illuminating I think to view magnetism as the relatavistic correction to electro-statics, as this is more intuitive than Maxwell's equations or Diracs (I'd imagine!).

If you have a wire with a current flowing, there are moving electrons and stationary positive charges - straightaway the Lorentz transformation will tell you that something interesting happens since the linear charge-densities seen by an observer depend on the velocity of the observer, and if the observer is charged, there will in general be "electro static" forces.

Even though the Lorentz corrections are tiny at the typical drift velocities of electrons in a typical wire, remember the amount of charge is vast (Faradays of charge) so that any minute imbalance in charge density between positive and negative will lead to a measurable force.

So what I'm really saying is that magnetism is reducible (in some sense) to electric fields plus special relativity.  There is no magnetism without moving charges (or changing electric fields).  The neat thing is that the magnetic effects can be described by a field abstraction.

[kongkokhaw]

Base on my understanding, particles are made of electric and magnetic field. This can be observed from the processes of pair production, annihilation, radioactive decay, collision of particles and etc. From these processes, matter and wave are interchangable. The ingredients of wave is electric and magnetic fields, hence, the ingredients of matters/particles are also the electric and magnetic fields.

Atom itself is not a stuffed or solid 'object', it is the magnetic and electric (M&E) fields in a different form that make up the volumetric size. the electric field corresponds to the charge of the particles. while the magnetic field corresponds to the quantized energy level of the particles. Figure below illustrates the structure of an atom.


Magnetic gauss line is the energy level of the atom, represented by n=1 and n=2. Electrons are orbiting on these quantized energy level. These quantized energy levels are the home of electrons.

For atom, the charge is defined as positive charge and it possesses different level of quantized energy line depending on the charges. For electron, the charge is given as negative charge. Electron is spinning at the speed of light, therefore, it has the smallest size in the category of particles.

In general, for a stable atom, electrons circulate surrounding the atom at different energy level. The base magnetic field of the atom is neutralised by the magnetic field generated by the moving/orbiting electrons. Hence, it is difficult to detect/measure the magnetic field of an atom.

In term of magnetic dipole moment, the spinning atom possesses an upward magnetic dipole moment. The orbiting electrons generate a downward magnetic dipole moment which neutralizes the upward magnetic dipole moment of the atom. Therefore, some atoms are neutral in magnetic dipole when both upward and downward dipole moments are equal. Figure below illustrates the balance of magnetic dipole moment of an atom with two electrons circulating around it.


The atom itself possesses an upward magnetic dipole moment, μa. The orbiting electrons produce magnetic dipole moment which is at the opposite direction, μe. The cancellation of upward and downward magnetic dipole moment makes the atom neutral in term of magnetism.

More descriptions and detail derivations are presented in this link:
http://www.greatians.com/physics/mass/atom%20model.htm [nofollow]

Molecule is the combination of few atoms. Due to the quantum mechanics of atoms, molecule are able to form in various shapes, such as water molecule possesses 'V' shape. The quantum mechanics of water molecule is illustrated below.


The combination of hydrogen and oxygen atoms produces the principle orbital number of 3. This causes the angle between two hydrogen atoms to be 105 degree.

[Vern]

Atom itself is not a stuffed or solid 'object', it is the magnetic and electric (M&E) fields in a different form that make up the volumetric size. the electric field corresponds to the charge of the particles. while the magnetic field corresponds to the quantized energy level of the particles. Figure below illustrates the structure of an atom.

You present interesting notions. It would be good if you could identify those places, if they exist, where you depart from established theory so that we could ponder it better and decide which version seems to satisfy the most observations.

[yor_on]

Sorry Mark, should have responded to your description a looong time ago But yes, that's exactly how I understands it too, nowadays that is Magnetic fields are observer dependent. But then you have a permanent magnet, how do I describe that as observer dependent? And have a look at this one. Einstein Straightened Out.
=

And that title gotta be a little joke
On geometry and the way Einstein got his Relativity framework together

[madus]

Base on my understanding, particles are made of electric and magnetic field. This can be observed from the processes of pair production, annihilation, radioactive decay, collision of particles and etc. From these processes, matter and wave are interchangable. The ingredients of wave is electric and magnetic fields, hence, the ingredients of matters/particles are also the electric and magnetic fields.

What a coincidence. Kong, are you still around? I'd like to ask you a few questions about double-slit experiment.

 

[madus]

Hi All!

I have tried to find out about the nature of the particles that carries magnetic field (not EM filed), but have not managed it. Can someone of you there explain what particles carries magnetic field if it is carried by particles?

Thanks for all inputs!
manjit

All basic particles, like electron, positron, proton, neutron... including photons. It's usually called "magnetic moment", which is magnetic DIPOLE moment due to spin.




To be very specific, you could say a particle "carries" electric field or charge, but magnetic field is rather an effect of (charge) motion, not really an intrinsic property of a particle itself, like electric charge/field seem to be.

So, beside dipole magnetic moment due to spin there is also magnetic moment/field being formed around charge due to its spatial motion, and is directly proportional to velocity of the charge. This is known as Lorenz force or Ampere force. Note that if velocity is zero this magnetic field does not exist, which is why I say it's an "effect" rather than actual property of a particle itself.




There is this equation called Biot–Savart law that works equally well in electromagnetics just as in aerodynamics, so amazingly this photo bellow will too describes how this magnetic field due to moving charge "looks" like:
 


...it just happens to work the same way, go figure.

[yor_on]

If the idea of a permanent magnet being domains that are lined up in a same direction is correct, then it must be correct to assume that 'electrons' move too. That is if a magnetic field is 'observer dependent', which it indeed seems to be. You need those 'electrons' to change position in a orderly pattern in a permanent magnet to create that magnetic field being at rest with it.