[paul.fr]

Just been listening to Radio 4 on correct grammar.
 You should say "The plants from which canola is produced"  if you really want to dump on someone with a clincher argument.
That is behaviour up with which I do not put.
I fully support your argument, though.

Would that be Grammar Challenge?

[miriam0920 (OP)]

I do know about the scientific method.  What do you mean?  That I need to use the scientific method to learn about Canola oil? Yeah, because if not, don't tell me you learned about the Big Bang by doing your own scientific method. I would like to see that!  But you know, even Albert Einstein had trouble convincing his peers about the Relativity theory.  It took him 15 years to convince people that he was right. 

Peace out! 

[Bored chemist]

It took a while, but eventually they were convinced by the evidence.
Pleases provide us with some.

[Madidus_Scientia]

I mean don't be convinced of something yourself let alone start preaching to others, before you have evidence and have thought about it critically.

Yes I did learn about the big bang that way, through reading through all the evidence and reasoning behind it.

[Bored chemist]

People accepted Eintein's work because it explained a number of things and it also predicted one, the change in the apparent positions of stars and planets when they were "near" the sun.
A bloke called Eddington looked for the effect (during an eclipse of the sun which is that only time you can see stars that are near the sun).
It turned out that Einstein's theory was right.

People beleived Eddington because he was an established figure and, at least as important, he was able to explain how he made the measurements.

You have an idea that canola oil is toxic "some rare kind of poison".
That postulate should, if it is ever to be accepted as scientific, be able to make predictions- and the good news is that it does.
If canola oil is toxic then (from the deffinitiopn of toxic) people who eat it should get sick and die.
This experiment has been done many times. Plenty of people habve eaten the stuff.
They are all still with us.
Therefore the material is not toxic, and your postulate is false.

Also we can look at some of the notions behind the idea.
For example part of your reason for believing the postulate is that you have read that it contains mustard gas.
However, one of the known properties of mustard gas is that it's an organochlorine compound.
One of the known properties of organochlorine compounds is that they are extremely rare in nature.
This means that the basis for the postulate is extremely improbable.
Also a lot of studies have been don on rapeseed plants and their relatives. Part of the motivation is that people are just interested in why mustard (for example) tastes the way it does.
There is quite a lot of data about the stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allyl_isothiocyanate
But it doesn't mention mustard gas.

Most scientist would, by now, have ditched the postulate and moved on.

[miriam0920 (OP)]

Wow, you forgot to click "spell check" on this one.  But thanks for the postulated theory.  Unfortunately, toxics chemicals can remain in the body for many years to come before somebody dies of it.  You're reasoning haven't convince me.

[Bored chemist]

I'm always pleased when someone complains about my spelling, it means they haven't found anything material to complain about.

Anyway, while it's true that "Unfortunately, toxics chemicals can remain in the body for many years to come before somebody dies of it." it doesn't matter. The toxins are not there in canola.
By the way, if you plan to comment on my spelling, perhaps you ought to sort out your grammar- after all, you are the liberal arts expert.

[DoctorBeaver]

I've been using Canola for years and it hasn't done me any harm

[Chemistry4me]

Really?

[blakestyger]

If science is your true passion then the first thing you should learn about is the scientific method, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

This is a good entry - I think that out of all the philosophers of science, Paul Feyerabend probably got it right the most.

[miriam0920 (OP)]

Bored Chemist, hello my fried, my problem is that knowing three languages, grammar rules get in the way.  Sorry to say, but it's the truth.  What is your excuse?

[miriam0920 (OP)]

Doctor Beaver you look healthy, ha, ha, ha, keep using it!

I guess I am weird because I don't eat in fast-food (McDonald, Burger King, Wendy's).  I eat only home made as much as possible.  I don't eat fried food.
My only hope is that people loved themselves better and eat healthier foods. I wish to erradicate diseases, Cancer, hyper tension, strokes, etc. That's my only goal in alerting people to use the right products.  I am sorry if I sin in this.  I want to make people aware that companies sometimes promote products bad to human consumption just to profit their pockets, not thinking about people's health.  So, please stop using Canola Oil, just in case.

[miriam0920 (OP)]

This is a more resent article capture by Google.com:

Canola is not the name of a natural plant but a made-up word, from the words "Canada" and "oil". Canola is a genetically engineered plant developed in Canada from the Rapeseed Plant, which is part of the mustard family of plants. According to AgriAlternatives, The Online Innovation, and Technology Magazine for Farmers, "By nature, these rapeseed oils, which have long been used to produce oils for industrial purposes, are... toxic to humans and other animals".

Rapeseed oil is poisonous to living things and is an excellent insect repellent. I have been using it (in very diluted form, as per instructions) to kill the aphids on my roses for the last two years. It works very well; it suffocates them. Ask for it at your nursery. Rape is an oil that is used as a lubricant, fuel, soap and synthetic rubber base and as a illuminate for color pages in magazines. It is an industrial oil.

It is not a food.

Rape oil is strongly related to symptoms of emphysema, respiratory distress, anemia, constipation, irritability, and blindness in animals and humans. Rape oil was widely used in animal feeds in England and Europe between 1986 and 1991, when it was discontinued.

[miriam0920 (OP)]

Here is some more posting please read previous posts.


According to John Thomas' book, Young Again, 12 years ago in England and Europe, rape seed was fed to cows, pigs and sheep who later went blind and began attacking people. There were no further attacks after the rape seed was eliminated from their diet.

Source: David Dancu, N.D.

Apparently peanut oil is being replaced with rape oil. You'll find it in an alarming number of processed foods. I read where  rape oil was the source of the chemical warfare agent mustard gas, which was banned after blistering the lungs and skins of hundred of thousands of soldiers and civilians during W.W.I. Recent French reports indicate that it was again in use during the Gulf War.

Check products for ingredients. If the label says, "may contain the following" and lists canola oil, you know it contains canola oil because it is the cheapest oil and the Canadian government subsidizes it to industries involved in food processing.

Adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD) is a rare fatal degenerative disease caused by in a build up long-chain fatty acids (c22 to c28) which destroys the  myelin (protective sheath) of the nerves. Canola oil is a very long chain fatty acid oil (c22). Those who will defend canola oil say that the Chinese and Indians have used it for centuries with no effect, however it was in an unrefined form.*

(* taken from FATS THAT HEAL AND FATS THAT KILL by Udo Erasmus.)


I read about a man who  bred birds, always checking labels to insure there was no rape seed in their food. He said, "The birds will eat it, but they do not live very long." A friend, who worked for only 9 mo. as a quality control taster at an apple-chip factory where Canola oil was used exclusively for frying, developed numerous health problems.

Rape seed oil used for stir-frying in China found to emit cancer-causing chemicals. (Rapeseed oil smoke causes lung cancer.) Amal Kumar Maj. The Wall Street Journal, June 7, 1995 pB6(W) pB6 (E) col 1(11 col in). Compiled by Darleen Bradley.

[miriam0920 (OP)]

To test the industrial penetrating strength of canola oil, soak a towel in both canola oil and regular vegetable oil. Pre-treat and wash the towel in your clothes washer and compare the area the two oils occupied...you will notice an oil stain remains on the area soaked in canola oil. It is so durable, it could take several washings to completely remove. Now if this is how canola oil penetrates the fabric of a towel, what damage can it do in your body?

Because canola oil is so cheap, it is now widely used in the food industry. If you are curious, just read a few food labels the next time you are in the grocery store. A good example can be found with commercially prepared peanut butter. In order to give peanut butter it's spreadability, Jiffy, Peter Pan and Skippy brands remove ALL of the natural peanut oil and replace it with canola oil. Natural peanut butter should only have peanuts and salt listed in the ingredients.

[Bored chemist]

Bored Chemist, hello my fried, my problem is that knowing three languages, grammar rules get in the way.  Sorry to say, but it's the truth.  What is your excuse?

Probably much the same as your excuse for not accepting the rule that bans multiple posting.

[Bored chemist]

Doctor Beaver you look healthy, ha, ha, ha, keep using it!

I guess I am weird because I don't eat in fast-food (McDonald, Burger King, Wendy's).  I eat only home made as much as possible.  I don't eat fried food.
My only hope is that people loved themselves better and eat healthier foods. I wish to erradicate diseases, Cancer, hyper tension, strokes, etc. That's my only goal in alerting people to use the right products.  I am sorry if I sin in this.  I want to make people aware that companies sometimes promote products bad to human consumption just to profit their pockets, not thinking about people's health.  So, please stop using Canola Oil, just in case.

If avoiding fast food joints is weird then that makes two of us weird.
The diseases you mentions are a terrible drain on society; eliminating them would be a great boon.
Distracting attention from the real problems by banging on about the toxicity of wild type rapeseed oil and then applying that to theh (as you have pointed out) genetically modified to be different canola, doesn't help.
Drop this argument- it's pointless, and divert your efforts to the real problems.
The trans fatty acids and high fructose corn syrup would be much better targets.

The bit about "stop using canola just in case" is a problem. It is, as you are so happy to point out, cheap.
Since it is not actually harmful, using it just means that those on low incomes have more cash left at the end of the week. If they spend that on fresh fruit then they are likely to benefit much more than they would from switching to whatever the next cheapest oil is.

[Bored chemist]

This is a more resent article capture by Google.com:

Canola is not the name of a natural plant but a made-up word, from the words "Canada" and "oil". Canola is a genetically engineered plant developed in Canada from the Rapeseed Plant, which is part of the mustard family of plants. According to AgriAlternatives, The Online Innovation, and Technology Magazine for Farmers, "By nature, these rapeseed oils, which have long been used to produce oils for industrial purposes, are... toxic to humans and other animals".

Rapeseed oil is poisonous to living things and is an excellent insect repellent. I have been using it (in very diluted form, as per instructions) to kill the aphids on my roses for the last two years. It works very well; it suffocates them. Ask for it at your nursery. Rape is an oil that is used as a lubricant, fuel, soap and synthetic rubber base and as a illuminate for color pages in magazines. It is an industrial oil.

It is not a food.

Rape oil is strongly related to symptoms of emphysema, respiratory distress, anemia, constipation, irritability, and blindness in animals and humans. Rape oil was widely used in animal feeds in England and Europe between 1986 and 1991, when it was discontinued.

Do you understand that the reason they genetically modified the stuff was to make it different?

Since it is no longer rapeseed oil (in the traditiional sense) the comparison is meaningles.

It doesn't matter how toxic wild rapeseed oil is, because canola is something else.
I know- I have seen the analysis.

[blakestyger]

Now if this is how canola oil penetrates the fabric of a towel, what damage can it do in your body?

This is the old observation that tea made the insides of metal teapots brown - what was it doing to our stomachs?

Well the answer is simple - we are lined neither with stainless steel nor towelling. This argument is therefore meaningless and has no place in scientific discourse.

Your wishing to target disease resulting from lifestyle choices is worthy - I believe that the removal from school curricula of domestic science is partly to blame.
There is a paradox though that is hard to explain - the rise in obesity and related conditions comes at a time when never before have we had so many TV programmes about food and cooking. Also, the local supermarket I use has loads of vegetables and frequently go short on some lines, notably greens - it just doesn't add up. []

[Bored chemist]

Here is some more posting please read previous posts.


According to John Thomas' book, Young Again, 12 years ago in England and Europe, rape seed was fed to cows, pigs and sheep who later went blind and began attacking people. There were no further attacks after the rape seed was eliminated from their diet.

Source: David Dancu, N.D.

Apparently peanut oil is being replaced with rape oil. You'll find it in an alarming number of processed foods. I read where  rape oil was the source of the chemical warfare agent mustard gas, which was banned after blistering the lungs and skins of hundred of thousands of soldiers and civilians during W.W.I. Recent French reports indicate that it was again in use during the Gulf War.

Check products for ingredients. If the label says, "may contain the following" and lists canola oil, you know it contains canola oil because it is the cheapest oil and the Canadian government subsidizes it to industries involved in food processing.

Adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD) is a rare fatal degenerative disease caused by in a build up long-chain fatty acids (c22 to c28) which destroys the  myelin (protective sheath) of the nerves. Canola oil is a very long chain fatty acid oil (c22). Those who will defend canola oil say that the Chinese and Indians have used it for centuries with no effect, however it was in an unrefined form.*

(* taken from FATS THAT HEAL AND FATS THAT KILL by Udo Erasmus.)


I read about a man who  bred birds, always checking labels to insure there was no rape seed in their food. He said, "The birds will eat it, but they do not live very long." A friend, who worked for only 9 mo. as a quality control taster at an apple-chip factory where Canola oil was used exclusively for frying, developed numerous health problems.

Rape seed oil used for stir-frying in China found to emit cancer-causing chemicals. (Rapeseed oil smoke causes lung cancer.) Amal Kumar Maj. The Wall Street Journal, June 7, 1995 pB6(W) pB6 (E) col 1(11 col in). Compiled by Darleen Bradley.

A whole bunch of anecdotes.
The story about feeding rapeseed oil to sheep is a red herring. The two oils are not the same that's the whole point of the genetic modification of the plant.

The repetition of the claim about mustard gas means that you didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote before. Where does the organochlorine come from?
Mustard gas is made by the reaction of ethylene with sulphur chloride in the presence of a lewis acid catalyst.
It's entirely synthetic. The only link is that someone thought it smells a bit like mustard and that's how it got the name.

The Chinese and Indians have used the stuff for a long time. The stuff they use is unrefined.
So what?
The refining process doesn't produce the long chain acids. They are exactly the same in the refined and unrefined product.

This is a point in favour of the safety of canola; we know things like it have been used safely for years.

The stories that start "i heard of someone" can be written off as hearssay at best.
The person who became ill after working with the stuff proves nothing. What about all the other people working there? If this stuff was toxic it would harm all of them not just one.

"Rape seed oil used for stir-frying in China found to emit cancer-causing chemicals. (Rapeseed oil smoke causes lung cancer.) Amal Kumar Maj. The Wall Street Journal, June 7, 1995 pB6(W) pB6 (E) col 1(11 col in). Compiled by Darleen Bradley. "

All smoke contains cancer causing chemicals. This has nothing to do with canola. Didn't you realise that?

I don't have any canola oil so I can't do the experiment you ask about. But I can explain it. We already know that this stuff has a higher proportion of long chain fatty acids.
Perhaps you could repeat the experiment with a nut oil like nutmeg oil. It too should be more difficult to wash out. Suet should be difficult to remove as well.
I will have a look at the labels on things I buy when I'm out shopping today.