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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
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Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?

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Offline jccc

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #260 on: 27/02/2015 13:36:02 »
an atom has mass m, vibrates at f times per second, it will seed mfc^2/t energy/force out as gravity wave. the nature of the force wave is electrostatic force.

light is not wave nor particle, light is gravitational pause produced by exited atoms.

Science has never been absolute, what makes you think today's science is all correct? In fact, science is so fucked up. Present theories of atomic structure, gravity and light are all wrong.

 
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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #261 on: 27/02/2015 14:34:42 »
Quote from: jccc on 27/02/2015 13:36:02
an atom has mass m, vibrates at f times per second, it will seed mfc^2/t energy/force out as gravity wave. the nature of the force wave is electrostatic force.

light is not wave nor particle, light is gravitational pause produced by exited atoms.

Science has never been absolute, what makes you think today's science is all correct? In fact, science is so f***ed up. Present theories of atomic structure, gravity and light are all wrong.

What you are trying to say here with this mfc^2/t is that energy multiplied by the frequency of phonon vibrations over time causes gravity. In the case where the phonon vibrations are not regular your energy source will be pulsating and some of this energy is released as gravity. The problems are 1) your mass would be gone very quickly and 2) you would need to prove that all phonon vibrations are irregular. I know energy is a difficult concept but I have never heard of anyone using phonons in this way. What may be possible is that the vibrational energy causes ripples (waves) in the gravitational field without loss of energy. The problem with this is tying it to a force that is all attractive. I have no idea where you would even start on that one so good luck I await your results. I may be waiting an awfully long time.
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Offline jccc

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #262 on: 27/02/2015 14:51:18 »
we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible? why there is no discharge between proton and electron? obviously the empty space is not empty.

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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #263 on: 27/02/2015 15:21:28 »
Quote from: jccc
we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible?
It is compressible. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility
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Offline jccc

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #264 on: 27/02/2015 15:43:14 »
Quote from: PmbPhy on 27/02/2015 15:21:28
Quote from: jccc
we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible?
It is compressible. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility
water's compressibility is about 10 ^-10, sounds like 99% empty space to you?

how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?
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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #265 on: 27/02/2015 16:49:40 »
Quote from: jccc
water's compressibility is about 10 ^-10, sounds like 99% empty space to you?

how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?
I answered your question about the compressibility of water, not about how much empty space there is. They are not directly related. And the amount of space taken up can be thought of in two ways; one in which one only considers the volume of the particles and one in which one considers the atom as a whole, i.e. the space in which the electron cloud exists. In the first case the volume of the particles is a great deal less than 1%.
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Offline jccc

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #266 on: 27/02/2015 17:03:27 »
Quote from: jccc on 27/02/2015 15:43:14
Quote from: PmbPhy on 27/02/2015 15:21:28
Quote from: jccc
we need to start from the light source. if atoms are like qm suggested, 99% empty space, why is water/matter not compressible?
It is compressible. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility
water's compressibility is about 10 ^-10, sounds like 99% empty space to you?

how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?
what's your answer?
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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #267 on: 28/02/2015 02:36:57 »
Quote from: jccc
what's your answer?
I don't have an answer. Who ever said I know everything!
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Offline jccc

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #268 on: 28/02/2015 02:43:18 »
thank you Pete!

all my respect to you.

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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #269 on: 28/02/2015 03:17:57 »
Quote from: jccc on 28/02/2015 02:43:18
thank you Pete!

all my respect to you.
You're welcome.  [^]
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #270 on: 28/02/2015 15:27:14 »
We do know all those things. You just don't understand the mathematics.

It's not unusual to find incomprehension masquerading as superior knowledge - that is, after all, the basis of many religions.
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Offline jccc

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #271 on: 28/02/2015 15:30:23 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 28/02/2015 15:27:14
We do know all those things. You just don't understand the mathematics.

It's not unusual to find incomprehension masquerading as superior knowledge - that is, after all, the basis of many religions.

what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?
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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #272 on: 28/02/2015 15:51:40 »
Quote from: jccc
you don't even understand how atoms are formed, .you don't know why is electron not stick to proton, you don't know why water is not compressible, you don;t know why there is no discharge in atoms,
When I said that I don't know what "how about the discharge? is the empty space such a good insulator?" means, no physicists has all that kind of data in their minds. When we need to know something we either calculate it or look it up. Which ever is the most convenient.

« Last Edit: 01/03/2015 11:15:06 by evan_au »
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Offline jccc

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Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #273 on: 28/02/2015 18:38:19 »
a matter/mass/charge has force/gravitational field, if the matter moves, the field follows. if the matter vibrates, the field follows.

if the sun has a big ejection/quake, we should be able to detect it 500 seconds later. we might even have a earthquake.

atoms, each has mass, when atoms exited, their fields exited, within that field, you feel light.
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Offline David Cooper

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #274 on: 28/02/2015 19:12:56 »
Quote from: jccc on 28/02/2015 15:30:23
what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?

Water is compressible - it just takes an extremely high force to compress it to a significant degree.
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Offline jccc

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #275 on: 28/02/2015 19:16:49 »
Quote from: David Cooper on 28/02/2015 19:12:56
Quote from: jccc on 28/02/2015 15:30:23
what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?

Water is compressible - it just takes an extremely high force to compress it to a significant degree.

right, 10^-10. why? if it is 99% empty. what force canceled pressure?
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Offline David Cooper

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #276 on: 28/02/2015 20:33:57 »
It isn't just water. Think about rock, metal, wood, etc.

With a gas, it's easy to comress it because the molecules start far apart, and the forces keeping them apart come from impact collision energy (temperature). In water you don't have that situation because the molecules are packed tightly together already, so to push them closer together you have to push against the forces that hold atoms apart. I don't understand how atoms are held apart at the distance they are, but a simple way of understanding how two things can in principle maintain a fixed separation would be to imagine two forces, one pulling two items together and the other pushing the two items apart, but with the one pushing apart decaying more quickly over distance. This results in strong repulsion when they get close together, but there will be a distance apart where the two items attract and repel each other equally, and that's where they will naturally sit. It's easier to pull them apart from there than it is to push them closer together, so breaking them apart can be done with relatively low force while trying to compress them is extremely hard and gets enormously harder for each extra bit of compression.

[Note: I have not posted to this thread at all, but my posts (along with some others around them) were moved here from a different thread as they were part of an off-topic conversation.]
« Last Edit: 01/03/2015 20:55:07 by David Cooper »
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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #277 on: 28/02/2015 22:36:13 »
Quote from: jccc on 28/02/2015 19:16:49
Quote from: David Cooper on 28/02/2015 19:12:56
Quote from: jccc on 28/02/2015 15:30:23
what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?

Water is compressible - it just takes an extremely high force to compress it to a significant degree.

right, 10^-10. why? if it is 99% empty. what force canceled pressure?

What makes you think it's 99% empty? In my glass, it's 100% water. Your failure to understand molecular orbital energetics is sad, but by no means unique. That's what distinguishes scientists from the ineducable.
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Offline jccc

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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #278 on: 28/02/2015 22:56:13 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 28/02/2015 22:36:13
Quote from: jccc on 28/02/2015 19:16:49
Quote from: David Cooper on 28/02/2015 19:12:56
Quote from: jccc on 28/02/2015 15:30:23
what thing do you know? why water is not compressible if there is 99% empty space in atoms?

Water is compressible - it just takes an extremely high force to compress it to a significant degree.

right, 10^-10. why? if it is 99% empty. what force canceled pressure?

What makes you think it's 99% empty? In my glass, it's 100% water. Your failure to understand molecular orbital energetics is sad, but by no means unique. That's what distinguishes scientists from the ineducable.

what is water? h2o, 3 atoms together, each atom has a nucleus, has electron orbitals, and 99.99% empty space. isn't that's the standard model?

https://www.google.com/
search?q=atom+standard+model&espv=2&biw=1242&bih=606&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=
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Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #279 on: 28/02/2015 23:08:13 »
Pseudoscience is disputing established science with claims that do not stand up to scrutiny. I think it's on topic. It exemplifies the lack of understanding that leads to pseudoscience. It can also be tied to a lack of understanding of the history and philosophy of science. This is a typical case. If jccc thinks it is extraordinary that so much space could exist in atomic structure then the orbital distance between the sun and neptune must also be wrong.
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