The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 14 15 [16] 17 18 ... 21   Go Down

Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?

  • 415 Replies
  • 232936 Views
  • 5 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11471
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 687 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #300 on: 01/03/2015 22:45:29 »
Quote from: jccc on 01/03/2015 22:39:34
did you read page 12 and 13? have any questions?

start from atomic structure, if H atom is build by electron and proton only with 99% empty space, why there is no discharge? why matter is not compressible?



A big "if", and wrong. As you say, you have to start with atomic structure and develop a physical model that explains it. Pretending that it can't happen isn't allowed, because it does happen. So your chosen model is wrong because it doesn't explain the obvious facts. You can't derive quantum mechanics from classical electrostatics.   
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #301 on: 01/03/2015 22:52:05 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 01/03/2015 22:41:07
Quote from: jccc on 01/03/2015 16:56:05


can you proof that light is not gravitational wave produced by exited atoms?



A gravitational wave would be detectable on the exit side of a thin sheet of metal.

solar cells transfer gravity wave into current all the time. green leaves transfer gravity wave into food.
Logged
 

Offline jeffreyH

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 6807
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 175 times
  • The graviton sucks
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #302 on: 01/03/2015 22:58:10 »
If opposite charges are meant to combine then why does the neutron decay? I have deja vu here.
Logged
Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates.
 

Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #303 on: 01/03/2015 23:04:01 »
Quote from: jeffreyH on 01/03/2015 22:58:10
If opposite charges are meant to combine then why does the neutron decay? I have deja vu here.

why people got married? never seen divorce?
Logged
 

Offline jeffreyH

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 6807
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 175 times
  • The graviton sucks
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #304 on: 01/03/2015 23:09:47 »
Quote from: jccc on 01/03/2015 23:04:01
Quote from: jeffreyH on 01/03/2015 22:58:10
If opposite charges are meant to combine then why does the neutron decay? I have deja vu here.

why people got married? never seen divorce?

You aren't here to learn.
Logged
Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates.
 



Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #305 on: 02/03/2015 01:27:24 »
the most beautiful thing in the universe is not mystery, but your mind.

without mind, there's nothing.
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11471
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 687 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #306 on: 02/03/2015 08:52:35 »
Quote from: jccc on 01/03/2015 22:52:05


solar cells transfer gravity wave into current all the time. green leaves transfer gravity wave into food.

Repeating an obvious untruth won't make it true, or even amusing.
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #307 on: 02/03/2015 11:07:39 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/03/2015 08:52:35
Quote from: jccc on 01/03/2015 22:52:05


solar cells transfer gravity wave into current all the time. green leaves transfer gravity wave into food.

Repeating an obvious untruth won't make it true, or even amusing.

are you talking about qm? graviton or photon? I told you long ago.
Logged
 

Offline JohnDuffield

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 534
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Re: The Pseudosciences
« Reply #308 on: 02/03/2015 14:42:42 »
Quote from: PmbPhy on 01/03/2015 20:30:13
Quote from: JohnDuffield
He is supposed to have said "'You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother"
Wrong. I checked with an Einstein historian and was told that it's a myth.
That's why I said supposed.
Logged
 



Offline Ophiolite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 822
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 25 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #309 on: 03/03/2015 08:14:44 »
You can only claim an atom is >99% empty space if you insist that electrons each exist at a single point. They don't. They exist as a probability cloud. Those clouds interact in various ways and are responsible for the lack of compression you think should be present.

« Last Edit: 03/03/2015 08:29:41 by Ophiolite »
Logged
Observe; collate; conjecture; analyse; hypothesise; test; validate; theorise. Repeat until complete.
 

Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #310 on: 03/03/2015 09:43:06 »
i claim nothing.

i ask if standard atomic model is correct, why matter is not compressible? why there is no discharge within atoms?

obviously atom is not 99% empty space. the space between nucleus and electrons must have a force field that balances the attraction so electron able to stay floating.

haven't see any legit answer, do you have 1?
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11471
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 687 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #311 on: 03/03/2015 12:05:14 »
You are still asking the question backwards. Here is the modern formulation:

The atom has a finite diameter. From what we know of its structure, can we derive classical electrostatics?

The answer is yes. Quantum mechanics (which provides an accurate description of atomic structure) degenerates to classical electrostatics (an adequate approximation of the behaviour of charged bodies) when the separation between charged bodies is large. 

Beware of using outdated models in science. Not everyone understands them anymore, and some may think you are being obtuse..
« Last Edit: 03/03/2015 12:07:41 by alancalverd »
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #312 on: 03/03/2015 13:35:22 »
you are at it again.

why is matter not compressible? why is no discharge within atoms? if stand model is correct?
Logged
 



Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #313 on: 03/03/2015 14:06:15 »
Pete is the only 1 has the merit to admit he has no answer to my questions.

you act like a kid of science. Please remember everything you posted in this thread will be reading by many.

ever thought how your students will think about your postings?
Logged
 

Offline David Cooper

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2843
  • Activity:
    10.5%
  • Thanked: 37 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #314 on: 03/03/2015 17:42:00 »
Quote from: jccc on 03/03/2015 13:35:22
why is matter not compressible?

It is compressible - it just puts up a very good fight, though it doesn't do so well in neutron stars, and it loses comprehensively in black holes.
Logged
 

Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #315 on: 03/03/2015 17:48:43 »
if atom is like alan's tent, give 100 atm alan will become a meat ball.
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11471
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 687 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #316 on: 03/03/2015 18:02:52 »
Quote from: jccc on 03/03/2015 13:35:22
if stand model is correct?

For the third and final time, what you call the "standard model" is WRONG for the very reason you give. Please take a deep breath and give your brain a chance to recover!

If a hypothesis does not fit the facts, the hypothesis is wrong. In the case of the atom, everyone else, from the dumbest schoolboy to several Nobel prizewinners,  recognised this about 100 years ago which is why we have quantum mechanics instead of classical electron orbits.

This is a science board. Scientists abandon models that don't work, so don't expect anyone here to play with your outdated and broken toys. I'm sure there are boards where people happily repeat nonsense ad infintum in the hope that someone will take them seriously, and I'm sure you would be a welcome guest.
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
 



Offline jccc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 990
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #317 on: 03/03/2015 18:22:53 »
you are kidding yourself again.

can you debunk any thing i posted about gravity, atomic structure and light? what are you waiting for?
Logged
 

Offline PmbPhy

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3903
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 125 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #318 on: 03/03/2015 20:15:29 »
Quote from: alancalverd
For the third and final time, what you call the "standard model" is WRONG for the very reason you give.
I missed what he said and your response. Are you saying that the "standard model" as he thinks of it is wrong or are you saying that the actual standard model is wrong and if so, why?

By "Standard Model" I mean the one defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model
Logged
 

Offline Ethos_

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1332
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 17 times
    • View Profile
Re: Why don't an atom's electrons fall into the nucleus and stick to the protons?
« Reply #319 on: 03/03/2015 21:00:54 »
Quote from: jccc on 03/03/2015 18:22:53
you are kidding yourself again.

can you debunk any thing i posted about gravity, atomic structure and light? what are you waiting for?
It's not our responsibility to prove you wrong, it's up to you to show us evidence in support of your theory. So far, little if any has been presented.

It isn't good enough to simply challenge someone to prove a negative. If you seek acceptance, you will be required to provide your own evidence. Saying "prove me wrong" will get you nowhere.
Logged
"The more things change, the more they remain the same."
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 14 15 [16] 17 18 ... 21   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: atoms  / protons  / electrons  / nucleus  / atomic structure 
 

Similar topics (5)

What is a "neutron bomb", and how does it differ from an "atom bomb"?

Started by georgeBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 13
Views: 21307
Last post 05/02/2007 18:45:36
by Batroost
How much would 1 H atom, 2He atoms, 4 Li atoms, 8 Be atoms... weigh?

Started by chiralSPOBoard Chemistry

Replies: 8
Views: 5800
Last post 22/01/2018 15:44:17
by chiralSPO
Does the apple fall to the floor, or does the floor rise to meet the apple?

Started by chrisBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 40
Views: 14317
Last post 09/02/2017 20:27:44
by yor_on
Can we say that we "fall through spacetime"?

Started by geordiefBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 8
Views: 1298
Last post 31/10/2019 00:20:19
by geordief
Could an different animal, other then a human, "fall in love" with you?

Started by SimulatedBoard Plant Sciences, Zoology & Evolution

Replies: 34
Views: 18488
Last post 30/01/2008 15:12:56
by Vcoolspice
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.206 seconds with 83 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.