0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quote from: fontwell on 23/03/2010 09:08:41@Geezer, yes three minutes is three minutes but don't use an hour-glass style egg timer Not if it contravenes the laws of conservation of energy it isn't. below is an extract from a link J P provided in regards to wether G R voilated energy conservation ...........An infinitesimal piece of spacetime "looks flat", while the effects of curvature become evident in a finite piece. (The same holds for curved surfaces in space, of course). GR relates curvature to gravity. Now, even in newtonian physics, you must include gravitational potential energy to get energy conservation. And GR introduces the new phenomenon of gravitational waves; perhaps these carry energy as well? Perhaps we need to include gravitational energy in some fashion, to arrive at a law of energy conservation for finite pieces of spacetime?.........Looks to me like there turning gravity back in to a force field.Anyone else come up with a way to test wether gravity is an attractive force or a bending of time ??
@Geezer, yes three minutes is three minutes but don't use an hour-glass style egg timer
We think we have indirect evidence of gravitational waves acting as a energy Gem. "The smoking gun is a system of orbiting neutron stars with the catchy name PSR1913+16. Einstein's theory predicts that gravitational waves carry away energy. For a system of orbiting stars, such a decrease in total energy leads to an ever faster and closer orbit. Over decades, radio astronomers have monitored the time that it takes the stars of PSR1913+16 to complete each successive orbit, and lo and behold: this orbital period decreases over time exactly as predicted by general relativity. This is strong evidence that the speed-up is indeed due to the radiation of gravitational waves, and the reason Russell Hulse and Joseph Taylor were awarded the Nobel prize for physics for the year 1993." Gravitational waves.
Why is energy conservation suddenly coming up and what does it have to do with time dilation? All you really need to know is what Geezer was saying--that if you put your timer and egg next to each other, then they should both agree on what three minutes is.
But, what exactly is this 'energy' we're speaking of, is it the same type we find in our combustible engine? and furthermore, if there exist this kind of phenomena, why couldn't we speak about gravity as a 'force'?
So you will notice time is a factor in the measurement of the work heat equivalence and as we have already noted earlier in this post at the center where in GR time is slower will the energy interactions there not disagree with the International System of Units as regards the laws thermodynamics.
You know Geezer, I think you're right. That thoughts too are regulated by time I mean. They seem so unrelated to what we deem as being materially 'there', as if they wasn't connected to anything materialistic, but they are.
The general rule of thumb is that locally, space-time is flat, so you only need to use special relativity, not GR.
An infinitesimal piece of spacetime "looks flat", while the effects of curvature become evident in a finite piece. (The same holds for curved surfaces in space, of course). GR relates curvature to gravity. Now, even in newtonian physics, you must include gravitational potential energy to get energy conservation.
If you use an atomic clock to time your egg for three minutes, the atomic clock measures local time, so it will "tick" exactly the same number of times in three minutes, regardless of its location.
By "everything" I really mean everything. All atomic activity, every chemical process, human thought, human metabolism, all physical motion etc. etc. is governed by the local time.
And also if space time is flat locally there would be no gravity according to fontwell that is what happens only at the centre.
Please explain how ALL PHYSICAL MOTION IS GOVERNED BY LOCAL TIME because according to the atomic clocks the mass at the centre is traveling faster.
Quote from: Geezer on 24/03/2010 21:39:44 By "everything" I really mean everything. All atomic activity, every chemical process, human thought, human metabolism, all physical motion etc. etc. is governed by the local time.Please explain how ALL PHYSICAL MOTION IS GOVERNED BY LOCAL TIME because according to the atomic clocks the mass at the centre is traveling faster.
If you had some amazing device that allowed you to observe the two egg timers simultaneously, if both started simultaneously, you would be able to observe that the one at the center of the earth would finish before the one at the surface.
(Actually for egg timing, the time dilation of the earth isn't even important since microseconds don't matter).
Local time is time measured locally. The local time at the center faster than the local time at the surface.
It's not really correct to say it's travelling faster. Locally, it's travelling at the same speed. Speed is distance in time. Everything is governed by local time, so locally speed would be the same at the two locations.If you had some amazing device that allowed you to observe the two egg timers simultaneously, if both started simultaneously, you would be able to observe that the one at the center of the earth would finish before the one at the surface.
Quote from: JP on 26/03/2010 00:47:02Local time is time measured locally. The local time at the center faster than the local time at the surface. Slower.
That is, if you accept my definition of the universe as a 'whole experience' aging of course. Otherwise you might say that there are things/objects aging 'faster' than you. But if it is that way then the experience of being able to observe a 'whole universe' have to be explained from something else it seems to me?Can you see what I think here? That what we call 'times arrow' then is a very localized phenomena and that our 'universal arrow of time' then becomes even more remarkable, as will all causality-chains observed, following our 'entropy'.