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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  3. That CAN'T be true!
  4. Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
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Were the Lunar Rovers faked?

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #120 on: 20/11/2013 00:24:36 »
Quote from: dlorde on 19/11/2013 21:55:45
So what do you think was the reason for faking so many landings, when only one or two would seem to be plenty?

And how did the 'Apollo 15' laser ranging reflectors (that are still in use around the world) get there?

It's all a mystery.

However, we do know the Russians also have moon rocks. So evidently you don't have send men to the moon to get those rocks or deposit reflectors.

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #121 on: 20/11/2013 00:40:36 »
Quote from: KubricksOdyssey on 20/11/2013 00:15:47
... Guilt-by-association ...

You are reposting material from the aulis site by Jack D white, "All studies © 2005/7 Jack White".
That's the same Jack D. White, (1927-2012) , who also claimed the Zapruder film was a fake.

So your source of information on anomalous moon images is from a paranoid geriatric, (such conditions are more common amongst the elderly). 

That's not "Guilt-by-association" : it's exposing the flakey source of your material.
BTW you've been reproducing old-Jack's "studies" here without giving him credit, (naughty naughty).
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 03:16:26 by RD »
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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #122 on: 20/11/2013 00:54:48 »
Your poisoning-the-well tactics are transparent RD

Photos presented are all from NASA, (not Jack White whoever he is.)

Genuine NASA photos (that anyone can verify) really have you reaching for excuses.



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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #123 on: 20/11/2013 01:27:33 »
Quote from: KubricksOdyssey on 20/11/2013 00:54:48
... Photos presented are all from NASA, (not Jack White whoever he is.)

Quote from: KubricksOdyssey on 19/11/2013 16:41:14
[ Invalid Attachment ]

Your image http://i.imgur.com/nkv8rHx.jpg  is http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/redreflection.jpg
Your image http://i.imgur.com/hN03O6l.jpg is http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/12dinespotlight.jpg
Your image http://i.imgur.com/ObnlsvM.jpg  is http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/12lensflaresstudy.jpg

The Jack in "jackimages" is Jack D. White ... http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

So like I said you're posting critical "studies" of NASA photos created by Jack D. White without giving him credit, (the text and processed images are his creations).

* KO's ''studies'' are by Jack D White.png (8.37 kB, 726x122 - viewed 1647 times.)

* KubricksOdyssey posting ''studies'' by Jack D white.png (95.94 kB, 1147x646 - viewed 477 times.)
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 01:46:04 by RD »
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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #124 on: 20/11/2013 04:27:30 »
[ Invalid Attachment ]
http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_5.html

Jack and his "Editor" should have done a course in optics , the "anomalous halo" around
the top half of the astronaut's shadow is a normal diffraction effect , see insert derived from ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arago_spot#Calculation_of_diffraction_images

* # bright aura around opaque obstacle caused by diffraction.jpg (61.26 kB, 765x465 - viewed 1783 times.)
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 04:43:31 by RD »
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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #125 on: 21/11/2013 23:27:20 »
Click to play:

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #126 on: 22/11/2013 00:38:29 »
The spacesuits are pressurized, (inflated), which makes them stiff like a dummy / blow-up doll.
The wearers have to fight against the suit to deviate from the neutral position which has the arm out in front as if reaching for a door-handle (not hanging down by their side) and knees bent , (see the unoccupied pressurised suit below right)  ...

[ Invalid Attachment ]

The jiggling Hassleblad (which is speeded-up) is not under such pressure to remain in the same position like the arms of the astronauts.
 
Even if  this ancient poorly-rated* Russian geezer has made “200 movies”  it would not necessarily make his (possibly nationalistic) opinion that the American rover footage is faked, true : no actual evidence of fakery offered by the elderly comrade.


[ * "Vsevolod Yakubovich" apparently has a poor-rating ..."1 vote (0%, 4801 Place)" ... http://www.kino-teatr.ru/kino/acter/m/ros/373757/bio/  ]

* Unoccupied pressurized suit on the right.gif (59.28 kB, 654x456 - viewed 2219 times.)
« Last Edit: 22/11/2013 01:47:52 by RD »
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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #127 on: 25/11/2013 20:55:57 »
RD, I have a bridge for sale, wanna buy it?

Same mission, different rovers....

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #128 on: 25/11/2013 21:37:38 »
Assuming the rover images are as described by you, a possible explanation is they are the same rover, not different as you allege, just that part of the rear left fender has been removed, e.g. to take home so the defect that made the right one fall off could be identified.

Even your favourite website "aulis" doesn't claim these are different rovers , just that part of rear fender has been removed for some unfathomable reason ... http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/17roverfinalcomp.jpg

Wasn't the footage of the departure from the moon recorded from a camera mounted on the parked rover ?, If so maybe they would need to add a camera to the rover and associated paraphernalia, causing it to appear different.

Re: "why was [the rover] parked so far from the LEM". They would need to park it some distance from the lander so the equipment broadcasting the departure on the rover (e.g. antennae) wouldn't be hit by debris as the lander blasted off from the moon ...


[ BTW Including a "selfie" doesn't help make your case ].

* KubricksOdyssey selfie.jpg (22.7 kB, 266x272 - viewed 479 times.)
« Last Edit: 25/11/2013 22:11:13 by RD »
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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #129 on: 25/11/2013 22:06:08 »
From Aulis....



Congratulations to R.D...



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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #130 on: 25/11/2013 22:48:36 »
I certainly wouldn't be too concerned with a shovel and rake being in one photo, and absent in the next.  Perhaps someone actually USED THEM.  In fact, it would seem more suspicious if all the tools and containers always remained the same.

The steering in the left photo appears to be in a neutral position.  In the right photo, it is turned to the max.  So, the steering linkages on the left side of the car look very elongated, and short on the right side of the car.  It is a strange looking steering linkage, but nothing looks too miraculous.  Going through a pile of photos from each trip, I would imagine a better history could be built.

When looking at the images, find some higher res images:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-135-20542HR.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg

So, sample bags and containers were mysteriously removed sometime during the mission...  hmmm.

And, shouldn't you find it extraordinary that the astronaut in the left photo wasn't left on the rover when it was left on the moon?

There is nothing in the photos that would indicate to me that the rovers weren't in fact used.  The patched fender likely fell off. 

The mesh tire design may throw regolith somewhat, making the fenders a useful addition (and thus hasty repair).
« Last Edit: 25/11/2013 23:09:01 by CliffordK »
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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #131 on: 25/11/2013 22:56:03 »
Quote from: KubricksOdyssey on 25/11/2013 22:06:08
From Aulis....


You're still not giving old-Jack credit I see [:(], not even by posting a link ... http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/17roverchanges.jpg

As I mentioned in my previous post if the rover was used as a platform to transmit the moon departure footage, equipment would be added to it after it was in its final parking place, making it appear different from when it was tootling about earlier.
( the apparatus between "2" and "7" on the picture on the right could be a camera pointed at the LEM ).
« Last Edit: 25/11/2013 23:26:08 by RD »
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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #132 on: 25/11/2013 23:14:12 »
Quote from: RD on 25/11/2013 22:56:03
if the rover was used as a platform to transmit the moon departure footage, equipment would be added to it after it was in its final parking place
Good point.
If one was merely loading and unloading the rover, one would park it within a few feet of the lunar module.  Setting it back a few hundred feet likely was to get better views of the capsule when it took off, as well as protecting cameras and antennas.
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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #133 on: 25/11/2013 23:16:39 »
Quote from: RD on 25/11/2013 22:56:03

You're still not giving old-Jack credit I see [:(], not even by posting a link ... http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/17roverchanges.jpg


You're still not giving old-Jack credit for finding the cut & paste earth...



http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2009/08/jack-whites-apollo-hoax-evidence.html
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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #134 on: 25/11/2013 23:29:45 »
It all started back in '62....

Click to play:




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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #135 on: 25/11/2013 23:32:51 »
Quote from: KubricksOdyssey on 25/11/2013 23:16:39
You're still not giving old-Jack credit for finding the cut & paste earth...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

That looks like blocky artefacts around the lit side of Earth created by lossy compression (e.g. jpeg format image).

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-134-20471HR.jpg

So we can add digital-artefacts to optics as subjects old-Jack did not comprehend.

There is generation loss when using lossy compression formats ...
, each copy adds more artefacts.

Quote from: KubricksOdyssey on 25/11/2013 23:29:45

and if a story can be written in rhyme it must be true , right ? [:)]
That you're attempting to present a song as evidence to support your case shows you've lost your mind, (and your argument).

* consistent with blocky jpeg artifacts.jpg (27.5 kB, 259x180 - viewed 1941 times.)
« Last Edit: 26/11/2013 00:10:39 by RD »
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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #136 on: 26/11/2013 01:14:46 »
Here's a much less grainy image to start with.

http://agaudi.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/as17-134-20471hr.jpg

You have to seriously mess with the brightness/contrast on the photo, but one does find a little halo around the Earth.  Not square, but nicely rounded.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

This is seriously pushing the maximum exposure of the film and film/digital conversion.  Presumably if you wished to get a better image, then one should, use a brighter light for the film/digital conversion, as well as a longer exposure period for the original image.

I presume what you're seeing is the thermosphere, which is pretty extraordinary that it is even picked up in the image. 

This would actually be more evidence that the photo is NOT faked.  If it was faked, one would merely cut out the little earth photo and paste it in, and one would miss the thermosphere altogether.

Why is it partly visible in the shaded portion?  That portion would still get sunlight, and would be hot.  However, fully shaded portion would be 200 to 250 degrees cooler, and not as bright, as well as not having any reflected light. 

I agree with RD that the square is probably just a compression artifact.

* Earth.jpg (23.42 kB, 752x684 - viewed 2142 times.)
« Last Edit: 28/11/2013 05:46:43 by CliffordK »
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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #137 on: 26/11/2013 01:54:48 »
Quote from: CliffordK on 26/11/2013 01:14:46
You have to seriously mess with the brightness/contrast on the photo, but one does find a little halo around the Earth.  Not square, but nicely rounded.

The aura/flare/halo around the Earth is what gives the conspicuous jpeg artifacts if you have a high compression ratio jpeg ...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

My money would be on the aura/flare/halo occurring in-camera-lens, rather than an atmospheric effect,
(but I've never been to the moon).

The scanning [digitizing] of the film/print would have also introduced artifacts : the parallel (horizontal) lines.

* Earth , high compression ratio jpeg artifacts demonstration.gif (18.66 kB, 184x137 - viewed 1968 times.)
« Last Edit: 26/11/2013 05:30:25 by RD »
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Offline dlorde

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #138 on: 26/11/2013 09:53:02 »
A quick Google finds: Gene Cernan fixes a rear fender on the lunar rover during Apollo 17.

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #139 on: 26/11/2013 16:37:26 »

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