0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
High energy Pulsed Electric Fields ( PEF ) have been used for several years in the purification of processed fruit juices, milk, water, and other liquids ... If certain voltages, currents, or frequencies we shown to effectively stop bacterial infections in the human body ...
Studies on Pulsed Electric Field applications for food sterilization It is suggested that repetitive pulse application of the order of about 25-kV/cm electric field intensity be employed for the purpose.
Cells: Advances in Research and Application: 2011 Edition (Google eBook) [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
... could it be possible that certain other interests are suppressing additional studies?
Your claim: The voltages used in High energy Pulsed Electric Fields ( PEF ) used to sterilize liquid foodstufs would be more than sufficient to rupture blood cellsIs unfounded in relationship to this post. The quoted studies are mostly low voltage, low current and do not damage the cells of higher organisms.
[ Invalid Attachment ] visually illustrates that low voltage ( less than 10 volts ), low current ( less than 10.0 ma ) can very effectively kill many microbes when applied over a reasonable time ( 1 hour ) ...
It is unfair to delete the links of someone because of claims that they might have unfounded information and then refute with unfounded claims.
•The site is not for the promotion of business interests, or other personal ventures.
Quote from: Zapper Dave on 04/11/2013 18:20:31Your claim: The voltages used in High energy Pulsed Electric Fields ( PEF ) used to sterilize liquid foodstufs would be more than sufficient to rupture blood cellsIs unfounded in relationship to this post. The quoted studies are mostly low voltage, low current and do not damage the cells of higher organisms. I didn’t introduce "High energy Pulsed Electric Fields" to this thread : you mention "High energy Pulsed Electric Fields" in the opening line of your first post [nofollow].
Quote from: Zapper Dave on 04/11/2013 18:20:31 [ Invalid Attachment ] visually illustrates that low voltage ( less than 10 volts ), low current ( less than 10.0 ma ) can very effectively kill many microbes when applied over a reasonable time ( 1 hour ) ... Assuming your experiment is as you describe, a possible alternative explanation is that passing 10 Volts at 10mA across the (copper?) electrodes dunked into the jar has changed the chemistry of the water which has made it toxic for the things which were previously living there , i.e. electrolysis [nofollow]. If the life in the jar is extinguished if you put the electrodes against the outside of the jar then that would support your claim that the applied electric field is directly killing the occupants.
Quote from: Zapper Dave on 04/11/2013 18:20:31It is unfair to delete the links of someone because of claims that they might have unfounded information and then refute with unfounded claims.The link deleted was to your own commercial site where you sell products , so effectively an advertisement , plugging your own products via such links is not permitted in this forum ...
I believe you could set up a webpage to espouse your theory which did not contain any adverts/links for your unproven products [nofollow] and be permitted post a link to that webpage in this forum, i.e. your opinion isn't censored but adverts for your products are , ( NB: I’m not a moderator in this forum ).
... 3 problems here, First, I did not use copper [electrodes]. Three different tests were done using brass ( yes, some possible copper contamination ), stainless steel, and aluminum. I expect to do it again with titanium and platinum.
Electrolysis of water Generally the water next to the electrodes will change pH due to the ions produced or consumed.
How important is the duty cycle?
What is the minimum effective peak voltage ...
How are you delivering the power?You skin has a resistance of about 3,000 Ω (at 25V), and your total body resistance might be as high as 100,000 Ω.Applied internally, even low voltage of 9V, and perhaps 100mA can be lethal to humans. Even currents down to 10mA can be dangerous. See Wikipedia [nofollow], Yahoo Answers [nofollow], and Electric Shock QA [nofollow]To get a good comparison between pulses applied to your skin, and pulses with electrodes in your jar, you should probably add a 10kΩ resistor to your circuit.
Quote from: Zapper Dave on 04/11/2013 21:47:10... 3 problems here, First, I did not use copper [electrodes]. Three different tests were done using brass ( yes, some possible copper contamination ), stainless steel, and aluminum. I expect to do it again with titanium and platinum. Platinum or carbon [nofollow] electrodes are usually in electrolysis experiments. However even with inert electrodes the current will still change the chemical composition of the water when a voltage above 1.5V is applied ...
Quote from: lsbu.ac.ukElectrolysis of water Generally the water next to the electrodes will change pH [nofollow] due to the ions produced or consumed. http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/electrolysis.html#intro [nofollow] Adding pH indicator [nofollow] to your water will show colour changes if the pH changes.
Electrolysis of water Generally the water next to the electrodes will change pH [nofollow] due to the ions produced or consumed.
Quote from: Zapper Dave on 04/11/2013 21:47:10How important is the duty cycle?The chemical change is proportional to the total amount of current passed through the water.Ahhh! Yes, but the chemical change is not proportional to the anti-microbial effect.For example, in the test that was applied to the jars shown above, The duty cycle was 50 percent, the voltage was 9.2 volts, and the duration was 2 hours. The microbial reduction was greater than 99.9 percent.As a comparison, another separate test was run on an identical sample from the same pond water. The duty cycle was 100 percent ( direct DC ), the voltage was 9.4, and the duration was 2.75 hours total. The microbial reduction, however was only about 40 percent.Quote from: Zapper Dave on 04/11/2013 21:47:10What is the minimum effective peak voltage ... To electrolyse water the voltage must be above 1.5 Voltshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water [nofollow]
Most importantly, in our main targeted application, controlling biofilm in cooling towers, this chemical change is of minimum concern because these units are replacing heavy chemical germicidal application.
In our case, as you can see from the control jar, coloration and cloudiness will affect the pH indicator. For this purpose, we monitor the pH and the conductivity of the water with probes.
... the chemical change is not proportional to the anti-microbial effect.For example, in the test that was applied to the jars shown above, The duty cycle was 50 percent, the voltage was 9.2 volts, and the duration was 2 hours. The microbial reduction was greater than 99.9 percent.As a comparison, another separate test was run on an identical sample from the same pond water. The duty cycle was 100 percent ( direct DC ), the voltage was 9.4, and the duration was 2.75 hours total. The microbial reduction, however was only about 40 percent.
Quote from: Zapper Dave on 05/11/2013 00:57:29Most importantly, in our main targeted application, controlling biofilm in cooling towers, this chemical change is of minimum concern because these units are replacing heavy chemical germicidal application. It looks like the chemical change is responsible for germicide , so it is important rather than negligible.
BTW if your application involves metal structures you may want to read up on cathodic protection [nofollow] : applying electricity to a metal structure can cause it to corrode faster or slower.
Quote from: Zapper Dave on 05/11/2013 00:57:29In our case, as you can see from the control jar, coloration and cloudiness will affect the pH indicator. For this purpose, we monitor the pH and the conductivity of the water with probes.It's not too cloudy to observe colour change, adding a dash of universal indicator [nofollow] would show two different colour changes at the two electrodes if electrolysis was occurring, ( cheaper than a pH meter ).
Quote from: RD on 04/11/2013 23:21:36... the chemical change is not proportional to the anti-microbial effect.For example, in the test that was applied to the jars shown above, The duty cycle was 50 percent, the voltage was 9.2 volts, and the duration was 2 hours. The microbial reduction was greater than 99.9 percent.As a comparison, another separate test was run on an identical sample from the same pond water. The duty cycle was 100 percent ( direct DC ), the voltage was 9.4, and the duration was 2.75 hours total. The microbial reduction, however was only about 40 percent.You're making conclusions from one experiment which involves biology []You'd have to repeat this experiment a hundred times to be confident there is frequency-dependence, ( even then it could be due to a physical mixing effect by alternating the polarity of the electrodes [nofollow] , rather than the biology being frequency specific ).
… even if the pH were to change at either the Anode or at the Cathode, this still does not explain that the microbes are killed throughout the jar …
Also, pure DC is effective against some microbes but possibly not against others.Also, different frequencies appear to affect different sets of microbes.There are many studies needed. Which frequencies are best for which microbes?Is the slew rate of the waveform important?How important is the duty cycle?What is the minimum effective peak voltage at any specific frequency?Also, what sine wave frequencies are effective against a particular microbe? There is a Rife Frequency CAFL list available, but it is not known just how accurate it is.The point that I do want to make is that by someone doing a science fair project to clear up some of these questions, that person may be contributing to saving lives from horrible deaths due to sepsis and septicemia.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/microelectricitygermkiller/info
Quote from: profound on 16/09/2017 10:50:49https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/microelectricitygermkiller/infoA Yahoo group*, which anyone can join, where people apply electricity to their bodies via homemade devices.<sarcasm>That sounds safe & effective</sarcasm>* Their disclaimer ..."By joining this group you agree to hold this group, including the moderator, harmless for real or apparent mishaps or any damages stemming from application (or misapplication) of the information. You agree by joining to use this information at your own risk. The opinion of the moderator is that you should NOT abandon standard medical treatments in order to do this, as it is still experimental"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/microelectricitygermkiller/info
No need to get to excited ...It's a standard disclaimer to guard against stupid people just like people taking 20 aspirins or 20 paracetamols.
Quote from: profound on 18/09/2017 16:31:03No need to get to excited ...It's a standard disclaimer to guard against stupid people just like people taking 20 aspirins or 20 paracetamols.You meal like "stupid people" who think voltage and power are the same thing ?. If you accidentally short the terminals on a 3.6Volt lithium-battery here's what can happen ...//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYRTgZcLFhU
Is it wise to subject yourself to the risks of an improvised-device in order to save £20 ?. BTW you need an electric field of ~10,000 volts per centimeter to "inactivate" (kill) bacteria ...https://www.nature.com/articles/srep19778don't try this at home X¬P
i have applied it thousands of times to me and family members without any ill effects to boils,pimples,acne,infections.