[RD]

what has that got to with it?

That the human trials you report are apparently conducted by a follower* of "Dr" Hulda Clark who was a charlatan. [* her nephew ?]

... there is no way they can travel fast enough in the body to simulate a 5 to 15 hertz oscillating magnetic field.

Red Blood Cells are described here as rotating/flipping at 5 - 15 times per second.

Why would VERY poor malaria patients go into a very expensive ,very specialized million $ MRI machine?.

I'm not suggesting an MRI be used to treat malaria , just that it would be proof-of-concept if someone had been cured of malaria by being in an MRI machine.


[ UPDATE : the author of the blog you refer to is apparently David P. Amrein who owns a company bearing "Dr Clark"s name which has been prosecuted by the FTC for making unsubstantiated health claims ...

The FTC's complaint names Dr. Clark Research Association (DCRA), a California corporation that uses a San Diego, California, address; Dr. Clark Behandlungzentrum GMbH, a company based in Munchenbuchsee, Switzerland, and doing business as Dr. Clark Zentrum (DCZ), and their owner, David P. Amrein

http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/clarkassn.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/clarkcomplaint.html

Apparently not actually his "aunt Hulda"

[RD]

And this
"Stronger fields above a certain strength in the research paper showed a weaker effect in the malaria parasite reproductive cycle." rings alarm bells. Why does more equal less?

Weaker=more effective, sounds like homoeopathy, or the electronic equivalent ...

Homeography: According to Clark, a "new science ... which is the electronic analog of homeopathy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulda_Regehr_Clark#Major_methods_and_topics

[evan_au]

the level of parasite in culture was reduced to a range from about 70% to about 33% of the level in untreated control samples

I am wary of claims that the level of parasite is reduced over 24 hours of treatment. The symptoms of malaria includes cycles of parasite population every 2-3 days. So if you only treat people when they are showing acute symptoms, you could almost expect the levels of infection to decline over the next 24 hours.

The goal of treatment is not just to reduce the level of parasites, but to eliminate them from the body. People who take preventative medication before and during their trip to a malaria-risk area sometimes come down with malaria soon after they stop taking the medication. It seems that the parasite is able to survive in one of its many life-cycle phases - until the medication is stopped, and the parasite takes over. This happened to one of my friends.

[alancalverd]

Why would VERY poor malaria patients go into a very expensive ,very specialized million $ MRI machine?.

They don't even have MRI machines.Do you know the running costs of these things?
The specialized personnel to operate them?

Yes. I own two clinical MRI units and I know where every last penny goes!

If you ignore the very expensive and environmentally demanding homogenous static field, you are left with programmable orthogonal oscillating fields which can be used to investigate and optimise the treatment regime, and can be replicated at quite low cost in a mobile rig wherever they are needed.

[profound (OP)]

Why would VERY poor malaria patients go into a very expensive ,very specialized million $ MRI machine?.

They don't even have MRI machines.Do you know the running costs of these things?
The specialized personnel to operate them?

Yes. I own two clinical MRI units and I know where every last penny goes!

If you ignore the very expensive and environmentally demanding homogenous static field, you are left with programmable orthogonal oscillating fields which can be used to investigate and optimise the treatment regime, and can be replicated at quite low cost in a mobile rig wherever they are needed.

Did you look at the pictures close up,magnified?

the patent actually mentions experiments with orthogonal oscillating fields also.

[profound (OP)]

what has that got to with it?

That the human trials you report are apparently conducted by a follower* of "Dr" Hulda Clark who was a charlatan. [* her nephew ?]

... there is no way they can travel fast enough in the body to simulate a 5 to 15 hertz oscillating magnetic field.

Red Blood Cells are described here as rotating/flipping at 5 - 15 times per second.

Why would VERY poor malaria patients go into a very expensive ,very specialized million $ MRI machine?.

I'm not suggesting an MRI be used to treat malaria , just that it would be proof-of-concept if someone had been cured of malaria by being in an MRI machine.


[ UPDATE : the author of the blog you refer to is apparently David P. Amrein who owns a company bearing "Dr Clark"s name which has been prosecuted by the FTC for making unsubstantiated health claims ...

The FTC's complaint names Dr. Clark Research Association (DCRA), a California corporation that uses a San Diego, California, address; Dr. Clark Behandlungzentrum GMbH, a company based in Munchenbuchsee, Switzerland, and doing business as Dr. Clark Zentrum (DCZ), and their owner, David P. Amrein

http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/clarkassn.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/clarkcomplaint.html

Apparently not actually his "aunt Hulda"

you seem to be rather preoccupied with hulda clark bashing.why don't you open your own thread and do the bashing instead of hijacking this one?

[RD]

... you seem to be rather preoccupied with hulda clark bashing.why don't you open your own thread and do the bashing instead of hijacking this one?

The blog you referred to in the first post in this thread is by David P. Amrein, who trades under the name "Dr. [Hulda] Clark Research Association". So me pointing out that "Dr" Hulda Clark was a charlatan of the first magnitude is relevant to this thread , rather than a "hijack".

Anyone promulgating the teachings of "Dr" Hulda Clark is either a naive ignoramus or a fellow fraudster, and their statements should be viewed in that light.

You asked me to read a patent, which I did, if you return the favour by reading some of the atrocious acts "Dr" Hulda Clark committed then you will see “bashing” is wholly justified , and that her followers/advocates are dupes or criminals.

PS
 I note you have not responded to evidence contradicting your assertion that …

“... there is no way they [malaria parasites] can travel fast enough in the body to simulate a 5 to 15 hertz oscillating magnetic field.”

[profound (OP)]

... you seem to be rather preoccupied with hulda clark bashing.why don't you open your own thread and do the bashing instead of hijacking this one?

The blog you referred to in the first post in this thread is by David P. Amrein, who trades under the name "Dr. [Hulda] Clark Research Association". So me pointing out that "Dr" Hulda Clark was a charlatan of the first magnitude is relevant to this thread , rather than a "hijack".

Anyone promulgating the teachings of "Dr" Hulda Clark is either a naive ignoramus or a fellow fraudster, and their statements should be viewed in that light.

You asked me to read a patent, which I did, if you return the favour by reading some of the atrocious acts "Dr" Hulda Clark committed then you will see “bashing” is wholly justified , and that her followers/advocates are dupes or criminals.

PS
 I note you have not responded to evidence contradicting your assertion that …

“... there is no way they [malaria parasites] can travel fast enough in the body to simulate a 5 to 15 hertz oscillating magnetic field.”

Well if you insist on talking about fraud and corruption lets talk about your big pharma friends fraud:-

 Big Pharma suffers from institutional corruption according to Harvard University researchers (1). They came to this conclusion after examining Pharma’s practices and policies in 5 different categories: systemic problems, medical research, medical knowledge and practice, marketing, and patient advocacy organizations. The CBCD believes this institutional corruption is a result of the productivity crisis in pharmaceutical R&D.

What is institutional corruption?

According to Marc A. Rodwin, one of the lead researchers, institutional corruption is “widespread or systemic practices, usually legal, that undermine an institution's objectives or integrity. Institutional corruption displaces some goals and compromises the attainment of others (2).”

An example of systemic corruption, (corruption of the entire system, or way of doing things) is Big Pharma’s funding of political campaigns, selectively providing information to legislators, subsidizing their work, and targeting campaign contributions to influential legislators and allies (1). Another example of a systemic problem is the fact that “Firms have strong financial incentives to develop so-called me-too drugs - products which are minor variations of existing drugs - and to heavily market them in ways that exaggerate their benefits and fail to reveal their full risks (1).”

The Harvard researchers found that Big Pharma manipulates physicians across America to achieve their financial goals. They wrote that “widespread practices in the medical and pharmaceutical industries can lead to doctors who are psychologically, financially, or intellectually dependent on drug companies (1).” In other words, Pharma turned these doctors into their agents. This is a phenomenon which has “resulted in…Doctors who take such misleading information at face value (and) prescribe drugs that are often unnecessary, harmful to patients, or more costly than equivalent medications (1).” .....and on and on.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/11/prweb11290033.htm

[RD]

Well if you insist on talking about fraud and corruption lets talk about your big pharma friends fraud:-

That corruption may exist elsewhere does not diminish the fraud of "Dr" Clark and her disciples.

Despite prompting you still haven't responded to the evidence showing RBCs tumble and spin at up to 15 times per second, contradicting your unfounded assertion that ...

... there is no way they [malaria parasites] can travel fast enough in the body to simulate a 5 to 15 hertz oscillating magnetic field.

[ BTW where is your evidence that I have friends who work for "big pharma" ? ].

[profound (OP)]

Well if you insist on talking about fraud and corruption lets talk about your big pharma friends fraud:-

That corruption may exist elswhere does not diminish the fraud of "Dr" Clark and her disciples.

Despite prompting you still haven't responded to the evidence showing RBCs tumble and spin at up to 15 times per second
contradicting your unfounded assertion that ...

“... there is no way they [malaria parasites] can travel fast enough in the body to simulate a 5 to 15 hertz oscillating magnetic field”

oh i forgot to add your pals in glaxo are being investigated too for fraud and bribery.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/03/glaxosmithkline-fined-bribing-doctors-pharmaceuticals



    Business
    GlaxoSmithKline

GlaxoSmithKline fined $3bn after bribing doctors to increase drugs sales
Sales reps in the US encouraged to mis-sell antidepressants Paxil and Wellbutrin and asthma treatment Advair...
The pharmaceutical group GlaxoSmithKline has been fined $3bn (£1.9bn) after admitting bribing doctors and encouraging the prescription of unsuitable antidepressants to children. Glaxo is also expected to admit failing to report safety problems with the diabetes drug Avandia in a district court in Boston on Thursday.

The company encouraged sales reps in the US to mis-sell three drugs to doctors and lavished hospitality and kickbacks on those who agreed to write extra prescriptions, including trips to resorts in Bermuda, Jamaica and California.

The company admitted corporate misconduct over the antidepressants Paxil and Wellbutrin and asthma drug Advair.

Psychiatrists and their partners were flown to five-star hotels, on all-expenses-paid trips where speakers, paid up to $2,500 to attend, gave presentations on the drugs. They could enjoy diving, golf, fishing and other extra activities arranged by the company.

GSK also paid for articles on its drugs to appear in medical journals and "independent" doctors were hired by the company to promote the treatments, according to court documents.

Paxil – which was only approved for adults – was promoted as suitable for children and teenagers by the company despite trials that showed it was ineffective, according to prosecutors.

Children and teenagers are only treated with antidepressants in exceptional circumstances due to an increased risk of suicide.

GSK held eight lavish three-day events in 2000 and 2001 at hotels in Puerto Rico, Hawaii and Palm Springs, California, to promote the drug to doctors for unapproved use.

Those who attended were given $750, free board and lodging and access to activities including snorkelling, golf, deep-sea fishing, rafting, glass-bottomed boat rides, hot-air balloon rides and, on one trip, a tour of the Bacardi rum distillery, all paid for by GSK.

Air fares were also covered for doctors and spouses, in most cases, and speakers at the event were paid $2,500 each.

Before one event, the compere said: "We have a wonderful and unforgettable night planned. Without giving it all away, I can tell you – you'll be experiencing a taste of luxury."

Not everyone was impressed, though. One psychiatrist complained: "The style of the conference would have been suitable for a convention of cosmetics sales reps; this is supposed to be a scientific meeting. To me, the music, lights, videos, emcees are offputting and a distraction, even demeaning."

GSK also published an article in a medical journal that mis-stated the drug's safety for children, despite the journal asking several times to change the wording.....



also Pfizer they paid 100 of millions in fines for fraud.

US drugmaker Pfizer has agreed to pay $2.3bn (£1.4bn) in the largest healthcare fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice.

It comes after the firm was found to have illegally promoted four drugs for uses which had not been approved by medical regulators.

A subsidiary of the firm pleaded guilty to misbranding drugs "with the intent to defraud or mislead".

US officials said Pfizer would have to enter a corporate integrity agreement.

It will be subject to additional public scrutiny by requiring it to make "detailed disclosures" on its website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8234533.stm

awful lot of fraud going on.what you doing about.

accusing hulda clark alleged fraud does not decrease you big pharma confirmed fraud does it?...

billions and billions and billions worth of fraud.

That corruption may exist elsewhere does not diminish the fraud of big pharma and their cronies.

[RD]

Like you said ...

what has that got to with it?

What has any corruption in "big pharma" got to do with whether or not this electrical device can treat malaria ?.

[ before you tell us there is a conspiracy led by "big pharma" to suppress this competing technology see "warning sign" #4 ( and #3, #8 , #9 & #13) ] .

... your pals in glaxo ...

That's twice you've said I have friends working for "big pharma", where is your evidence that is the case ?

[profound (OP)]

Like you said ...

what has that got to with it?

What has any corruption in "big pharma" got to do with whether or not this electrical device can treat malaria ?.

[ before you tell us there is a conspiracy led by "big pharma" to suppress this competing technology see "warning sign" #4 ( and #3, #8 , #9 & #13) ] .

... your pals in glaxo ...

That's twice you've said I have friends working for "big pharma", where is your evidence that is the case ?

You are the one who started going about alleged hulda clark fraud.

what was the fraud by the way??

i meant "friends" as in

[RD]

You are the one who started going about alleged hulda clark fraud.
what was the fraud by the way??

Try clicking on some of the links I've posted in this thread, e.g.
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/clark.htm

[profound (OP)]

You are the one who started going about alleged hulda clark fraud.
what was the fraud by the way??

Try clicking on some of the links I've posted in this thread, e.g.
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/clark.htm

With a pejorative title like ratbags.com ?

it seems to be a collection of links bashing her non stop.i wonder who funded it?
your quackbuster mr steve barrett?

Lets look at quackbusters:-

http://www.health-report.co.uk/quack_busters_scam_revealed.htm

who seems to have been in court for fraud

http://www.bolenreport.com/feature_articles/Doctor%27s-Data-v-Barrett/Doctor%27s-Data-v-barrett.htm

 On Friday June 18th, 2010 Doctor's Data Laboratory filed an eleven count lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois against Stephen J. Barrett, MD, the National Council Against Health Fraud Inc (NCAHF), Consumer Health Digest, and Quackwatch, Inc.


The case charges the Defendants with (1) Lanham Act Violations - Restraint of Trade, Deceptive Business Practices, and Trademark Dilution, (2)  Trademark Dilution under the Illinois Trademark Registration and Protection Act, (3)  Violations of the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act, (4)  Violations of the Illinois Deceptive Trade Practices Act, (5)  Business Libel Per Se,  (6)  Business Libel Per Quod,  (7)  Tortuous Interference with Existing and Potential Business Relationships, (  Fraud or Intentional Misrepresentation, (9)  Civil Conspiracy, (10)  Corporate Officer and Board Member Personal Liability, (11)  Temporary and Permanent Injunctive Relief.

The Consumer Health Digest is, according to Barrett, a joint effort of quackwatch and the NCAHF, and is jointly edited by Barrett and William M. London.  London is employed by the California State University Los Angeles campus in the Health Sciences Department....

Steve Barrett seems to be in court a lot and loses each time:-
where does the money come from?

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/california_superior_court_judge_.htm



Keep in mind that Barrett, although claiming to be a retired Psychiatrist, was never able to become "Board Certified."  He failed his test.  Also, Barrett gave up his MD license in 1993.  I suspect he just couldn't keep up with new things.  His employment record shows he NEVER was able to hold a full-time job - and his claim to "Psychiatric fame" was his part-time (4 to 8 hours a week) employment at a Pennsylvania Mental Hospital - from 1978 through 1993. ...

http://www.health-report.co.uk/quack_busters_scam_revealed.htm

[RD]

With a pejorative title like ratbags.com ?

it seems to be a collection of links bashing her non stop.i wonder who funded it?
your quackbuster mr steve barrett?

Like Dr Stephen Barrett , the author of www.ratbags.com was also sued by not-a-medical-Dr Hulda Clark , but the long list of ridiculous charges, like the eleven you list above, were all dismissed, see ... http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/clark05courtcase.htm

Like a filing a patent application, anyone can file a law-suit : it doesn't have to have any merit.

Lets look at quackbusters:-
http://www.health-report.co.uk/quack_busters_scam_revealed.htm

That webage is described as "Opinion by Consumer Advocate Tim Bolen".

As for the credibility of Mr Bolen listen to him speak on this YouTube video of him giving testimony under oath and judge for yourself ...

[profound (OP)]

[quote author

A large number of the Malaria cases are self limiting, and adults that have had multiple previous infections may acquire some immunity.  There may also be some crossover of naturally acquired immunity between different strains. 

Any test should have a blinded randomized controlled clinical trial.  In this case, both groups probably should be treated with the "cage", but only one group would have it turned on.  The last link you included seemed to indicate the trial with only an experimental group, and no control group.

As with many things, magnetic field intensity drops off with the square of the distance.  The notes indicate a weak magnetic field, but the apparatus depicted appears like it would deliver a very weak field.

Is there a frequency that is used?  50/60 HZ, or something different?

One could get a much stronger magnetic field with an MRI machine, but perhaps the scan frequency would have to be adjusted, and it is not focused on the whole body at once.
[/quote]

.[/b][/i][/u]

• In helmholtz coils the field is uniform between the coils and also for small objects compared to the field.
  
  An arbitrary 5 to 15 hertz was used initially and also 1000 to 1015 hertz in later experiments.the higher frequencies were more effective.
  
  
  The mechanisms are not well understood. It is possible that a hemozoin crystal can feel a
  torque of an applied magnetic field killing the parasite. An experiment needs to be designed to
  • • test this theory. The effect of the magnetic field on the various life stages should also be
      examined. This can be accomplished by beginning the treatment with synchronize samples. In
      other words, samples will be treated starting with all rings, all trophozoites, and all schizonts.
      
    
    

In the first trial, the control sample grew 42% after 24 hours. Here, the treatment groups actually
grew well after 24 hours having a percentage increase of 95%, 96%, and 43% respectively.
After 28 hours, the control group had grown very well with a 207% increase while the treatment
groups were floundering with an overall growth of 6%, 10% and 21%. In the second trial, the
overall growth of all samples is worse than that of the first trial. However, the control group
does grow better than the treatment groups. After 24 hours, the control groups increased by
249% while the treatment groups grew by 154%, 50%, and 96%. After 48 hours, the control had
grown by 60% overall, while the treatment groups had less parasites than they started with. The
overall growth in the treatment groups was -13, -84%, and -41% respectively.
While the growth rates of the different treatment groups (with different magnetic field intensity)
do not significantly differ from themselves, they are significantly lower than the control group at
the 48-hour mark of both trials. The treatment is able to significantly inhibit growth of
Plasmodium falciparum. However, when the magnetic field strength is increased, the effect is
not visibly enhanced.

the last line means the cost of magnetic field generation will be low as higher fields are not more effective.

[RD]

... The treatment is able to significantly inhibit growth of Plasmodium falciparum ...

Looks like you are quoting from this ...

Plasmodium falciparum Response to Oscillating Weak Magnetic Fields.
Mary Thompson, Department of Physics, Case Western Reserve University
Dr. Robert Brown, Department of Physics, Case Western Reserve University
Dr. Brian Grimberg, Center for Global Health and Disease, CWRU School of Medicine ...

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  ...

http://www.phys.cwru.edu/undergrad/Senior%20Projects/papers/papers2011/Thompson_Brown_2011%20S.pdf

In the top left it says the temperature is "37C" , but couldn't there be a local heating effect on the blood in the coils as a result of the electrical current passing through the coils ?.  [Some allege the function of fever is to inhibit parasites] , in which case any reduction in parasite numbers in the experimental populations could just be due to being heated to a higher temperature than the control, rather than due to the magnetic fields.

Just a thought.

[profound (OP)]

... The treatment is able to significantly inhibit growth of Plasmodium falciparum ...

Looks like you are quoting from this ...

Plasmodium falciparum Response to Oscillating Weak Magnetic Fields.
Mary Thompson, Department of Physics, Case Western Reserve University
Dr. Robert Brown, Department of Physics, Case Western Reserve University
Dr. Brian Grimberg, Center for Global Health and Disease, CWRU School of Medicine ...

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  ...

http://www.phys.cwru.edu/undergrad/Senior%20Projects/papers/papers2011/Thompson_Brown_2011%20S.pdf

In the top left it says the temperature is "37C" , but couldn't there be a local heating effect on the blood in the coils as a result of the electrical current passing through the coils ?.  [Some allege the function of fever is to inhibit parasites] , in which case any reduction in parasite numbers in the experimental populations could just be due to being heated to a higher temperature than the control, rather than due to the magnetic fields.

Just a thought.

"This apparatus will be placed inside an incubator at 37°C at 5% CO 2 . Three treatment
samples are placed in the three solenoids. A control sample will be placed inside the incubator
away from the solenoids. A fan was blowing on the three coils to minimized Ohmic heating
from the wires".

[evan_au]

5% CO₂ is unlikely to be experienced inside a healthy patient (or even one suffering from malaria).
If a healthy patient is placed in 5% CO₂, they won't be healthy for very long.

[RD]

A fan was blowing on the three coils to minimized Ohmic heating
from the wires".

How "minimized" was the "Ohmic heating" ?.  The fan on my computer reduces the the temperature of the CPU chip , but it's still typically 10C above room temperature. 

Putting a thermometer in each of the test-tubes and taking regular readings would have revealed how successful the fan was.  [ IMO a water-bath would have a better idea to regulate temperature. Another idea : it may be possible to wrap current-carrying wire around the a control sample in a way which contributed any ohmic heating but had no net magnetic field ].