[Ylide]

My girlfriend's Master's Degree is in sociology, so she's studied a crapload of social statistics.  I asked her about infant mortality counting towards average life expectancy, and she says it sure does.  Just so you know.  



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[Jay M. Fredrickson]

Thanks Cannabinoid for the info -

Im not sure if people are dying younger on a whole from things like cancer, but it seems that on just a personal basis, hearing that a friends dad died from a heart attack, or that more and more people are getting cancer seems to be prevalent.

The fact that lifestyle choices can be a huge factor in degenerative diseases is worrying as the way society is moving >
http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/parenting/01/05/obese.teens.ap/index.html [nofollow]
and
http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/parenting/01/05/fast.food.ap/index.html [nofollow]

[Ylide]

My big worry is accumulative toxicological effects.  Things like pesticides, heavy metals, and organic solvents are present, albeit in extremely low levels, in most of our food and water supply.  The amounts we are exposed to present no acute effects, but research is showing that long term low-level exposure is indeed harmful.  Metals accumulate in the nervous system, solvents cause long term liver damage, and pesticides can affect just about every major system in the body.  

The moral of the story, use a water filter and buy organic when possible.

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[Jay M. Fredrickson]

I can definitely relate.

What's going on into our food is scary at the least of times. I'm not 100% convinced that buying organic is the way to go either. Unless grown in a green-houses with hepa-filtered air systems, pollutants and other toxins still effect what is being grown in fields right? Just because the farmer does physically go and spread pesticides, it doesn't mean that toxins aren't going into the foods.

Anyhow, just my view. Here's an interesting little article for those interested > http://www.cgfi.org/materials/articles/2000/feb_11_00.htm [nofollow]

[Ylide]

I'm not worried about a little residual pesticide from the farm down the road or chemical fallout from the neaby city.  I rinse my veggies off before I use them.  As long as pesticides aren't being sprayed on in huge concentrations, I'm relatively sure I can get all of the crap off before I eat it.

I'm more concerned with the state of meat products.  Between mad cow disease, growth hormones, and excess use of antibiotics, I'm getting more and more careful about eating meat and dairy products.  (but they taste so GOOD I can't make myself go veg)



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[tweener]

Actually, I'm not very impressed with the organic rules at all.  Some of the "organic" pesticides and herbicides that are allowed (because they are natural) are much more toxic than the commercial chemical that would do the same job in a lower concentration.  Good examples of this are lime-sulpher and Bordeaux mixture.  They are both extremely toxic, very stable in the environment, accumulate in tissues of fish and birds, and are allowed under the rules of most "organic" certification.  

Other factors to consider are cost and regulation.  The commercial pesticides are expensive, and farmers are required to undergo some training to be able to buy them (at least in the USA).  When they apply them, they are subject to audit to make sure they are using them within their permit and the label directions, and they don't use any more than they have to because they are expensive.  The "organic" stuff is usually not regulated, so anyone can buy it.  It is usually cheaper, so they will buy more.  And, it is not as effective, so they will use more.  So, keep washing your vegatables, even the organic ones.

Another big factor in making you want to wash vegatables is biological contamination, like salmonella or e-coli.  This makes for more sickness than pesticide posioning, though the cumulative risk is more of a long term problem.


----
John

[Ylide]

I think everyone who goes to college should be required to take a semester of microbiology.  You'll never eat a fruit or vegetable again without scrubbing the hell out of it.  People just have no idea how ubiquitous microorganisms really are.





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[Donnah]

I still go organic.  I prefer to grow my own because that's the only way you really know how organic it is.  I suspect that a little residual pesticide might be a good thing.  Our bodies will encounter that crap in our food supply sooner or later (unless you never eat in restaurants) and maybe our immune system will protect us better if it is aware of that particular toxin.  What does the scientific community have to say about this theory?

[tweener]

I forgot to mention that I still buy organic if possible without bankrupting myself.  Overall, I think it is worthwhile and the practice should be supported.  Even if the rules need to be better understood by the public and maybe changed.


----
John

[Ylide]

Chemical toxins aren't generally affected by the immune system.  That's why things like botulism and E. coli 0157:H7 are so bad...you can kill the organisms but the toxins they excrete have already gotten into your system and started doing damage.  Hence, you can't readily build up an immunity.  There are other mechanisms for developing a tolerance to chemicals, but I don't know what they are.

The harmfulness of the pesticides depends on the composition.  Carcinogenic ones are not good in any dose, especially long term.

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[luckywood]

Hi Chris-doc and all,

I am a proffessor from Malaysia, I have a cousin that had has a kidney failure 6 years ago and got cured by a world class physician and he then intruduct hundreds of patients to that master and also cured most of them , some 4th stage of cancer, and I was having some small problem and also got cured by him. SO if you think herbal medicine has no prove then YOU ARE WORONG.

Offcause you have to get to the best one. Not all herbalist is good enough to cure many diseases, but the master I know in Malaysia can do that very well.

I have follow his treatment for many years now and can witness to you all that if you get to the best master you can get the cure.

I have ask him about drugs in the herbs, he said there are no drugs in the herbs. Drugs are made from many things, like herbs , minerals, chemical and so on. But herbs are real natural and just herbs.

Herbs are mainly from grass, trees and so on.

I remember seeing some friends that have too much of Vitamin C and got cancer , and not long after that the US papers said ,over dose of vitamin C can cause cancer!!!!!!!

Thanks Chris what you say.

[Donnah]

Hi Luckywood, welcome to the forum.  Couldn't agree with you more; the quality of the products and service largely determine the outcome.