[Ylide]

I can't speak for most doctors, but the ones at the clinic at my college asked me if I was taking anything herbal before they prescribed something for my anxiety.  (ended up putting me on Klonopin, it's working quite well, I am starting to feel human again)

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[chris]

Bezoar is right. As I said earlier, the apparent "safety" of herbal remedies is exactly that - "apparent" due to the fact that there are no proper follow-up procedures or side-effect monitoring protocols for herbal rememdies because it is an un-regulated system. Therefore if you rely on this data you will always over-report and over-condemn prescribed agents compared with herbal remedies.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[bezoar]

Probably because St. John's Wort has gotten real popular as an over the counter herbal for depression.  We ask our patients also during the pre-op visit, because some of the herbal increase the clotting time.  But that question has been initiated by the nurses, not the docs, who know even less than we do about herbals.

[chris]

I can't speak for the US, but in the UK the doctors are pretty au-fait with the issue of interactions between prescribed medications and what people take "on the side".

But there is still an image problem that 'normal' medicine has to surmount ! People love to prove us wrong and demonstrate how just a bunch of herbs can cure them when 15 doctors all failed. The reason that these stories rise to prominence is because they are so unusual. It's like the story that always gets trotted out by smokers about their 900 year old grandmother who smoked 500 cigarettes a day and died under a bus as fit as the day she was born. The reason that that story stands out is because it it so unusual. The claim that smoking protects your brain from dementia is a fallacy. Most smokers don't live long enough to develop dementia. Or lung cancer come to that !

Chris

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[Donnah]

I don't think that alternative medicine is better than allopathic medicine or vice versa.  They each have their place, I use both effectively and would not want to be without either.

The problem with herbal remedies is that you either have to do a lot of research about the product (uses, cautions, contraindications, effective brands...) or put your trust in an N.D.  I do think that you are less likely to kill yourself by misuse of over the counter herbals than by misuse of pharmaceuticals.

[tweener]

I agree with Donnah that they both have their place.  There are many herbal and natural remedies that have (or are currently) undergone rigorous clinical trials to prove their safety and efficacy.  At least in the US, the pharmaceutical industry and the medical profession really play down the role of natural remedies.  I believe there is a lot more acceptance in Europe.

I am a strong supporter of "normal" medicine also.  If you really think about it, the only substantial change in our lives in the past two hundred years is that now we have a very high probability of living to see our children grow up to become adults.  Otherwise, not much has changed.


----
John

[Ylide]

I'm all for using herbs to treat illnesses that CAN be treated with them.  I'm more concerned with the history some homeopathic "professionals" have with condeming all pharmaceuticals and western medicinal practices while selling treatments that will not work for what is ailing their patient.  

So yeah, treat your glaucoma with pot, treat your insomnia with valerian, treat your depression with St John's Wort, but don't be a dumbass and try to treat your colon cancer with a wheat grass colonic or some such nonsense.



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[Jay M. Fredrickson]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to say hello briefly and mention that i'm happy to have stumbled across this forum.

I initially took notice to a different thread wherein a member was inquiring about Usana and it's products and their involvement in the network marketing industry. While I am a believer in the products and also involved in the business, im not here to preach. People can inqurie what they will.

I dislike the stereotype brought forth by such people who go about saying this and that and give a bad image to something, network marketing or anything.

Anyhow, I just wanted to say that while I haven't caught up on all the threads yet, this one is very well spoken by all parties. I look forward to continuing to read and possibly contribute with my own thoughts and perspective from time to time. Im not an avid forum attendee but I try to keep up -

Take care everyone -
Jay

[bezoar]

Hi Jay, and welcome.  Hope you do come back.  What gives you the background in supplements?  Are you studying in the field or just your own interests?

[Jay M. Fredrickson]

Hey Bezoar,

My background in supplements as far as study goes is minimal. I completed first year human kinetics but then switched into business & commerce. I have done a lot of research into various company's products though.

I guess they wouldn't be an area of expertise, but one of high interest. I attend the gym regularily and play competitive level sports like volleyball, squash and soccer.

How do you view supplements?

[bezoar]

I'm not sure there's much difference in natural versus synthetic.  I definitely think supplements have a place, and I'm not so sure that the minimum daily requirements are accurate.  Obviously, with the water soluble vitamins, there's not much harm done if you overdose, however, I did read that those who megadose with vitamin C develop a sort of dependence on it.  I'm really confused about the trace minerals.  You have to understand, in nursing school, we got one nutrition course that was very conservative and basic.  I don't think the docs get much more.  I got more nutrition conscious after I had children, in an effort to feed them well.  They are, by the way, extremely healthy kids, but I don't know if that's good nutrition or good genetics.

[Jay M. Fredrickson]

You're very correct in being unsure of the RDA of supplements. They have yet to catch up with modern science and are still based on minimal quantities to stave off such things are scurvy. When's the last time you heard of someone with scurvy?

In 1st world countries where people have the choice, they should be looking to give their bodies optimal levels of nutrition throughout the day. Selling yourself to the lowest bidder (often big box stores where you get 1500 capsules for $8.99) just doesn't make sense to me. A high end product costs a quarter or half days wages at the most?

Anyhow...Supplements are not a magic bullet by any means. They are just that, supplements. Meant to be taken in addition to a well balanced healthy diet and rounded physical fitness.

[Ylide]

You pretty much summed up how I feel about supplementation, Jay.

Supplements have worked great for me in the times I've worked to develop better overall health.  (protein supplements for when I'm weight training, etc)  I've never had much luck with them for actually treating a disorder, and I don't think they're really meant for that.

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[Jay M. Fredrickson]

I take daily cellular nutrition (vitamins/minerals) not to treat anything but rather give my body the best platform to prevent diseases. I take a high priced product because I see a difference in potency and bioavailability of products.

There is an obvious major shift from sickness' like polio to degenerative diseases like hypertension, cancer etc. Many of these degenerative diseases are believed to be preventable and im just doing what I can to have the best fighting chance.

I also take a soy-based protein and nutrition shake mix for a morning meal replacement...mm mmmm

haha...

[chris]

quote:Originally posted by Jay M. Fredrickson

You're very correct in being unsure of the RDA of supplements. They have yet to catch up with modern science and are still based on minimal quantities to stave off such things are scurvy. When's the last time you heard of someone with scurvy?

You'd be surprised. Although not common it does happen. I have seen a patient with scurvy which responded promptly to a few oranges a day. Most at risk are the elderly who survive on tea and toast...

Chris


"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[bezoar]

Not in our country.  In the land of the obese, we don't live on tea and toast.

But Jay, I think the shift in disease patterns, with more degenerative diseases, is just because we are living longer.

[Jay M. Fredrickson]

Thats funny that you say that...a good friend of mine actually got a mild case of scurvy while he was in college...very amusing. Good guy but had the worst diet imaginable. You can imagine the surprise everyone had.

With respect to people living longer, I think there may be some discussion on that. In generations before, a major benefactor to studies done on life expectancy was the high infancy mortality rate. With this nearly wiped out, or severely lower than earlier, the life expectancy has seemed to increased but this one factor may have just increased the average when looking at numbers.

I hope that all made sense. I just rolled out of bed and the brain isn't functioning at 100% yet..

Jay

[bezoar]

Were infant deaths included in figures of life expectancy?  That would screw up the statistics big time.

[Jay M. Fredrickson]

As far as I was told they were...I may have been misinformed.

Kind of changes the perspective though hey? When you really look around, more people are dying younger due to heart conditions and cancer when they are in their 40's 50's and 60's than before. Im pretty sure nearly everyone knows someone personally who was a victim to this.

[bezoar]

I haven't seen the stats.  Are they really dying younger from cancer and heart disease?  Even with all the new treatments and medications?  I find that hard to believe.