[neilep (OP)]

I have a problem with people who believe in reincarnation.....if they can sometimes under hypnosis regress to an earlier life , then is is possible that they could be regressed far enough to start acting like apes, chimps etc etc ?.......also, if reincarnation does exist then where do all the extra people come from ?, if we all come back as someone else then how do you account for the rise in poplulation ? I would welcome any thoughts on my comments.......please note I am a complete novice and if my thoughts demonstrate complete and total naivety then that's correct, I'm a layman to say the least !!

[bezoar]

I studied all this a long time ago.  Apparently, you go to a state between lives where you get to review your life, and choose the circumstances in which you'll be reborn according to what lessons you need to learn.  So there's another plane, and some feel, life on other planets and in other dimensions, so there's lots of room for all those extra people.  I suppose, if we evolved from apes, then we could be regressed that far back.  One school of thought thinks that with each incarnation, your spirit ascends, therefore, if you were a cat before, you won't be a cat ever again.  Another school of thought believes once a human, always a human.  Some very educated scholars believe in reincarnation.  I believe Ben Franklin did.  I suppose every one has to find a belief system that works for them.

[neilep (OP)]

Thanks for your very interesting and illuminating comment.......it seems people who believe in reincarnation only have speculation to fall back on.......it would be fascinating to discover how reincarnation was first thought of....I presume it's a natural progression or related from the thought that there is life after death, or, a form of  alternate existence anyway........if one can not remember ones former existence then I don't really see the point.....though I can inderstand that some may say that whether you remember or not, your former life has an effect on your present life.....I believe the Universe existed quite well for billions of years before I came along and the world just 'got along' quite happily without me and will continue to do  so after I've gone too.

[Ylide]

From a biological standpoint, your memories are stored in various parts of the brain.  Cognitive information is in the cerebral cortex and sensory memories (visuals, sounds, feelings, etc) are stored in those related parts of the brain.  Storage and retrieval of these memories are carried out by the hippocampus.  This is all fairly well studied and understood.

From a logical standpoint, the entire contents of the brain would have to be transmitted with the soul in order for memories of previous lives to be available to the current incarnation.  Since just about all spiritual belief systems contend that the soul and the brain are entirely separate entities, the entire theory of reincarnation eats itself.  QED.

Therefore, I contend that people who are experiencing "past life" memories are simply either having random mental imagery come to be similiar to that of dreaming, or they have very active imaginations.  It might be interesting to study alleged past life descriptions and compare them to current life experiences.  For instance, those who claim to have been dukes, kings, and the like just might have power issues in their current life.  Those who claim to have been soldiers or warriors or some sort may want to lash out or attack someone but are not willing or not able to do so.  (this is all hypothesis, mind you...I am not claiming this to be factual or proven)

I guess we'll find out for sure when we die.

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[chris]

I disagree with your point about memory retrieval involving the hippocampus. HM (who has no hippocampus) has intact memory pre-dating the surgical removal of both hippocampi to treat intractible epilepsy. His deficit is in the formation on new memories, subsequent to the surgery.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[Ylide]

Hmm, it seems my source has an error.  Perhaps the hippocampus is involved more in the the storage aspect.  Regardless, the part of the brain that retrieves information is irrelevant, as the rest of my point still holds.  If the soul, as it were, were capable of storing memory, we would have no reason to do so with our brains.  



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[roberth]

Personally, I think people are getting confused between recycling and reincarnation. When our mortal form has broken down to carbon (?) there's no memory. You become part of the Earth's life cycle. We live on our blue marble, in an enclosed environment, with very little going out or coming in. The self awareness the we, as a species, developed, makes some think there must be more than this life, but there isn't. When you're dead, you're dead. If you don't believe me, ask anyone that has died.

[NakedScientist]

death - a once in a lifetime experience !

TNS

[Donnah]

Roberth, I did, and they told me you are wrong.[]

[bezoar]

Neilep,
It's true that people who believe in reincarnation have only speculation to go on, but then the same goes for all the people who believe in God.  Where's the proof?  We look for reasons to believe (sounds like Rod Stewart) because it makes our life more bearable to believe that there's a higher power that we can pray to, and someone bigger that all of us will hear it, and maybe change the course of things.  I can only tell you that in medicine, I've definitely seen some miracles, and that makes a believer out of me.  I get a very consistent positive response when I pray.  That makes me a believer.  If you're happier only believing in yourself, then that's your faith.  We find a belief system that we can live with and makes us comfortable with life.

We haven't yet gotten into the near death experiences. I think those can be chemically reproduced, however, those who have had those experiences will tell you that it's forever changed their life. And some of the reincarnation stories, although I'll admit not many, have been checked out and the memories have been validated.  How do you explain that?  Maybe more like Jung's theory of the universal consciousness.

[neilep (OP)]

Bezoar.
Thank you again for your comment. I find myself sometimes feeling how can one believe in an irrational supernatural force which defies all logic and is based purely on a belief and that's all ? and then, there are times when I'm not praying but looking up when I'm laying in bed and asking the question is there anything else ? and expecting an answer to manifest itself before my eyes, obviously, I've never had a response yet !!.....but I must admit I tend to believe in myself rather than a greater force.............but...there are times !!...I suppose I'm just one of those people who need to 'see' real proof rather than have faith in a conviction which i find very hard to accept.

[genegenie]

I suppose I'm going to sound totally loopy BUT I'll tell my story and cop the flack regardless.[]I'd better start by telling you that I've never had any psych problems (that I know of)....so here goes.

When I was a young child, lying in bed in that relaxed state just before sleep, I frequently heard voices, they were always the same voices, and I didn't know what they were saying, but they didn't frighten me at all. As I got older it stopped and never returned. I've since met 2 other people who experienced the same thing. I read somewhere recently that this is not uncommon, APPARENTLY it's remnants of your past life/lives. Any thoughts on this?

[bezoar]

Theory says that children are closer to the memories of the past lives, obviously, than adults.  Our intelligence, and the memories of the present obliterate the past life memories over time.  I remember my two year old saying to me -- and we did not watch TV in our house -- Mommy, remember when we used to have a fire to heat the house in the old days?  It was a very bizarre comment, and I couldn't figure out where it came from.  Maybe the same sort of thing.  
People can be regressed to past lives.  Whether it's memory or trick of the mind, who knows?  If you believe in ghosts, children are supposed to be better in communicating with ghosts.  Guess the fear factor with them is less.

[h4mi]

Buddhism could be said to be "in-tune" with reincarnation. as stated in one of its texts [not word for word] that...if one does want to be good in the next life, they should do good in this one..

[roberth]

So...when we reach Utopia, after death, is the place going to full of dinosaurs. They were here for 750 million years while we've been around for about 1/2 million, or are we the only species that gets to go there? Utopia sounds scary!
I also think that when we were kids (a long time ago for me) our imagination was a lot more active and creative and dreams seemed a lot more real. Suggestions can become real memories and dreams can become fact over time. How come people only remember past lives as humans? You don't hear anybody say "I remember when I was a gnat and got eaten by a spider".

[genegenie]

Roberth, my experiences were distinguishable from dreams, they were frequent, always the same, and only occured when I was in a state of total relaxation. It was a long time ago for me as well[], but I do remember them quite well. I'm not convinced about reincarnation, (I like to be hit in the face with something before I believe it[])but there are too many things that cannot be explained - such as bezoar's 2yo's comments!!!! Wow!!!!

[pencilhead]

I don't believe in reincarnation.  WHY?
I don't believe in a spirit that goes into a different dimension and comes back into another body?  How is that possible?  If you don't believe in GOD then is there such a thing as a spirit.  Is there such a thing as a soul?  What is a soul?  The sum of our thoughts are made from what we get from our environment through our senses.  When some of us feel god, is it just the mind rushing the blood through the veins creating a feeling of euphoria using chemicals that were induced by the beauty or thought of something so profound.  Something that overwhelms us is something is is big and complex that perplexes or confuses the mind that it doesn't understand and goes into a "deep" mode feeling.

[pencilhead]

so let me explain since there is no spirit just the physical body and the mind there is no reincarnation because there is no spirit to carry the mind into another vehicle.

[pencilhead]

why would it go into another body?  It makes no sense

[bezoar]

I think the theory depends on a belief in a higher power.  As explained, we are all striving for perfection, only the higher power is also evolving.  I suppose the less evolved spirits are on some other planet or in some other dimension.  Being as I haven't been dead yet (that I can remember), I'm not sure.  I just think what's really funny to me is that most people who believe in reincarnation are convinced they're on their last incarnation here.  Kind of egotistical to think they're that perfect and have nothing to learn.  Christ said, in the Bible, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, you must be like Me.  Now, I don't know many people who are that good, and I don't guess and all loving God would send everyone to hell, so, the theory makes sense to me -- if you believe in God.  If not, then ya gotta find what works for you!