Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1200 on: 09/09/2008 22:24:07 »
Yes, a lot (but not all) research on these pharmaceuticals is funded by the producers.  This certainly puts their objectivity into question.  On the other hand, they are publishing in medical journals with very high standards -- journals which are seen to have the utmost credibility in the scientific community.  What makes these journals credible?  In part, the extremely rigorous peer-review process, and the fact that the results of publications show to be reliable in the long run, show to be significant, show to have superior predictive power to the alternatives, and judgments made from these journal results often continue scientific progress. 

"The peer review process may be stifling innovation.
Could the peer-review processes in both academia and industry have destroyed rather than promoted innovation? In my own
field of psychopharmacology, could it be that peer review has ensured that in depression and schizophrenia, we are still largely
pursuing themes that were initiated in the 1950s? Could peer review explain the fact that in both diseases the efficacy of modern
drugs is no better than those compounds developed in 1950? Even in terms of side-effects, where the differences between old
and new drugs are much hyped, modern research has failed substantially. Is it really a success that 27 of every 100 patients
taking the selective 5-HT reuptake inhibitors stop treatment within six weeks compared with the 30 of every 100 who take a 1
950s tricyclic antidepressant compound? The Rothwell-Martyn bombshell is a wake-up call to the cozy establishments who run
science. If science is to have any credibility - and also if it is to be successful the peer-review process must be put on a much
sounder and properly validated basis or scrapped altogether"
.
Trends in Pharmacological Sciences, Vol. 22, No. 2, February 2001
David F. Horrobin, a longtime critic of anonymous peer review and heads Laxdale Ltd., which develops novel treatments for
psychiatric disorders. In 1972 he founded Medical Hypotheses, the only journal fully devoted to discussion of ideas in medicine.


Here's the article in its entirety
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/02/28/scientific-research-part-one.aspx

Also, if a pharmaceutical company omits presenting known dangers of a drug, they are likely to lose a lot of money in lawsuits.  And this has happened.  Conversely, the critics are not in nearly as much danger.  They can make vague claims against the drug and won't lose much for doing so -- particularly since most critics are not under public scrutiny.  Consequently, the pharmaceutical companies are often held to a higher degree of accountability than the critics.

Anyways, this discussion is probably more suited to a thread of its own :).  At this point I am just trying to counter-balance the argument against SSRIs; I don't think this has much relevance to POIS.  My point here is that it isn't so black and white, and it is highly credible that SSRIs are one of many logical approaches to psychological problems.  Every approach will have its critics, and we have to examine the credibility of the evidence on both sides.

Antidepressants are the top-selling therapeutic class, with $12.5 billion in retail sales.
The "critics" of the drug companies are often the people who have been damaged by pharmaceuticals or their families.
They are clearly in MORE danger, as is the uneducated consumer, who has not been informed as to some of the risks
and potential dangers of pyscho-active pharmaceuticals.

Here's an article from the American Journal of Hematology on Prozac's possible link to brain tumors.
http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/7/2545

And, btw, for every counter-balance there is an equal and valid counter to the counter-balance.  [:)]





« Last Edit: 10/09/2008 01:26:42 by girlwind »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1201 on: 10/09/2008 13:50:09 »
Stilkus,
Skim the site there are a few ideas floating around in here to think about. I myself have found relief (hopefully not just temporary) be eating raw garlic, and I am now working on healing a sleep disorder that has been created amidst the anxiety of dealing with POIS throughout my life (I am now 40).

Well I flipped again...again I think that with my symptoms intestinal Candida is an unlikely cause...am I fickle or what?! I was on the diet for a few days anyway, but this morning I fell off the wagon and had some toast, man it was good! And I feel more relaxed now.

I am thinking that sugar does indeed play a part in my insomnia but for other reasons than Candida. Although my blood sugar is good perhaps it kick starts my adrenals into working harder (just a wild guess).  I'll soon have to take all this insomnia talk into another forum but I am sharing with y'all in the meantime because it was generated in the sphere of POIS.

Hope you're all doing well, I haven't seen any more positive (or negative) reviews posted for the clove-a-day solution, keep me in the loop.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1202 on: 10/09/2008 16:15:05 »
STILKUS

Welcome to the POIS Forum! You'll find that there are many variations of POIS, but it seems that all symptoms linger for DAYS, like yours. As far as I know, Stilkus, this site is the most vibrant source worldwide for this problem and the progress has been phenomenal, in just one short year of our existence!

Stilkus, check out our-very-own girlwind's POIS vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g
« Last Edit: 10/09/2008 17:07:51 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1203 on: 10/09/2008 16:17:07 »
John21, can you please review or point me to the right post that shows the detail of the daily garlic regimen (e.g., cooked or raw? when taken? etc. ) THANKS!!

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1204 on: 10/09/2008 16:28:07 »
STILKUS, where exactly is the clicking and bone pain most severe? or is it all over?

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Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1205 on: 10/09/2008 19:53:46 »
Girlwind,

I'm interested in your case, because you are a woman. My working theory is that POIS is in part caused by the body's need to replenish it's supply of semen after ejaculation. And that the production or Over-production of semen causes various effects in the body which we recognize in our symptoms of tiredness, fatigue, low mood, back and joint pain, hunger, to name a few. 

But if it's true that you are actually experiencing POIS, then there would need to be another explanation too.

First of all- we must accept that we share some of our symptoms, but not all of them. (I have a list of symptoms which I outlined in my first post, if you're interested.)
It would seem that there must be another chemical imbalance that occurs which is caused by the orgasm.

There seem to be certain symptoms which you do not have, which are more prevalent in men- such as joint pain, high testosterone.

I'd be interested in knowing your full list of symptoms and comparing them to mine.

I'm interested in knowing everyone's full list of symptoms, and making a chart of them.  Perhaps that's what the questionnaire is about.  My apologies if it is-- I haven't taken it yet.


Thanks,
Animus.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2008 19:57:01 by Animus »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1206 on: 10/09/2008 21:16:30 »
Hello Animus,
My main symptoms from POIS are just about the same symptoms that I have from CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome),
and include: extreme fatigue, brain fog, lethargy, difficulty concentrating, vertigo/dizziness, aversion to cold, and
low grade infections. I often end up with a cold/flu a few days after orgasm. I also notice that my pulse beats faster
than normal for a day or two. Emotionally, I can feel very cranky/irritable and anxious from the fatigue. 

I do not have joint issues, back pain, burning fingers, or intestinal problems, like some people do.

Most of my CFS symptoms are the result of either poor sleep (common to CFS, due to the hypothalmic disorder) or
even a limited amount of over-exertion, whether that be physical or mental. My theory is that orgasmic release is
just another form of over-exertion, which depletes my endocrine system, consequently aggravates my CFS and
results in POIS symptoms. I have had some definite success with adrenal boosting supplements, which I have listed
a couple times on this forum, and with cutting sugar and grains from my diet.

I am currently awaiting the results from a panel of saliva and blood spot tests I did with the ZRT Labs (which was
recommended by someone here) to test my hormone levels. When I get them back, I will post the results. I also
have re-tested for heavy metals and trace minerals, as I've been informed that toxins (especially from heavy metals)
can interfere with endocrine functioning.  AND... last week I discovered that I have a very significant iodine defi-
ciency, which may be preventing my thyroid from working optimally,  so I just began taking a supplement for that.

Good luck in charting the symptoms. Let us know what conclusions you come to.


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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1207 on: 11/09/2008 03:34:55 »

Hope you're all doing well, I haven't seen any more positive (or negative) reviews posted for the clove-a-day solution, keep me in the loop.

Hi everybody,

I have been trying the one-garlic-clove-a-day method for the past five weeks.  I've waited before posting about it, so I could have a chance to see if the effects were consistent over a number of different POIS episodes (5 so far).


Basically, there was definitely a noticeable positive effect, although not a 100% cure.  Normally my POIS lasts 24 hours, and this number stayed the same.  However, during that period, I felt much better than usual.  Improvements included:

--mentally, I felt pretty good throughout the day.  There was much less 'brain fog.'  I was able to concentrate better, and had an 'up'/positive feeling, in contrast to the painful slowness of thought and mental 'oppression' that normally accompany POIS.

--physically, I felt less of the heavy 'fatigued' feeling.  Interestingly, though, there were times when I felt sleepier than usual (drowsiness taking the place of fatigue?), but that was less pronounced.

--emotionally, I was more able to interact socially, and felt much less anxious/irritable.

Overall, I still felt somewhat 'strange', but it never reached the point of 'bad' like it normally would.  Or, put differently, I would say that while I couldn't say that I felt 'good,' I also didn't feel as 'bad' as usual.

My regiment has been to take one raw clove, crushed, every evening.  A couple of the times when I had a release, I had taken one clove earlier in the evening, and then took another right after the release.  For a couple of the other releases, I had taken one clove earlier in the evening, and then took another early the next morning.  I couldn't say whether those doubling-up times made a difference or not.

So, this all seems very good, and I'm happy to report to the group about it!

(The one downside is having to eat raw garlic every night--although I've found a trick that makes it better: I crush the garlic, put it in a spoon, and then put some water in my mouth, put the garlic in my mouth and swallow it along with the water, and wash it down with more water.  That way, it's only in my mouth for a moment.  This also seems to reduce the garlic-breath effect.)

I'm not sure what I should do next.  I'm definitely not fully cured and I would certainly like to be!  Perhaps I should try taking 2 cloves a day.  We'll see...

Anyway, I hope we all continue to see increased improvements! 

-Guthrie
« Last Edit: 11/09/2008 03:37:43 by Guthrie »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1208 on: 11/09/2008 16:21:22 »
I know nobody has been on this forum for a while, but i just discovered that i have this problem called POIS and it really affecting my daily life. I was just wondering if people have tried the products from the company called Herballove, that claims to solve the problems from POIS.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1209 on: 11/09/2008 17:00:37 »
CC, welcome to the POIS Forum! I went to the website http://www.herballove.com/ and didn't see anything related to POIS problems. Can you point me to the right place on their website? Thank you!

ps - can you tell us more about your POIS experiences?

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1210 on: 11/09/2008 18:02:54 »
I know nobody has been on this forum for a while, but i just discovered that i have this problem called POIS and it really affecting my daily life. I was just wondering if people have tried the products from the company called Herballove, that claims to solve the problems from POIS.

Herballove was the first places I found years ago in an attempt to relieve the symptoms.  There is a section on "over-masturbation" (http://herballove.com/article.asp?Art=216) which describes many of the horrible symptoms of POIS - especially brain fog.  They recommended MoodMax and ViaGrowth III.  Only the former product helped me - my POIS was greatly diminished after taking a tablet after an orgasm, however, it ceased to work in following orgasms experienced shortly after the first.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1211 on: 11/09/2008 19:25:40 »
Concerning Herballove, I tried some of the products as well and they did nothing for me. I am skeptical that "Dr" Lin's products do what they claim.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1212 on: 11/09/2008 19:29:43 »
Demografx, I simply eat at least a clove a day... I chop it up and put it on a cracker with a spread topping to mask it a little. P.O. I tend to eat more than one/day.

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Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1213 on: 11/09/2008 21:49:29 »
Dear Animus,
The questionnaire can be found at http://pois.olympe-network.com
Your input would be of great value.

sparx: Right now there is no option to edit your responses.  However, there will be an opportunity in a couple months to add to what you've written, or to repost your responses with new information.


Ack.
I just spent over 2 intense hours documenting all my POIS details on the questionnaire website. I got up to make tea, and my computer rebooted itself while I was gone.  Now I have to start all over again. What a pain.

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Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1214 on: 11/09/2008 21:56:28 »
Concerning Herballove, I tried some of the products as well and they did nothing for me. I am skeptical that "Dr" Lin's products do what they claim.

I also tried the herbs from Herballove.  I didn't find that they benefitted me much. I also had a phone consultation with dr. Lin. It was a little difficult to get over the language barrier.
But I find the website very interesting. They don't address POIS as such. But if you look under "over-masturbation" and "over-ejaculation" there are many letters from men who experience symptoms similar to POIS.

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Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1215 on: 12/09/2008 00:37:35 »
Hi Girlwind,
Thanks for your response.  It's very interesting.
I think I agree with you on the point that orgasm is similar to over-exertion. That is my experience too.

Have you been tested extensively for lyme disease? My sister had lyme disease and was diagnosed as having chronic fatigue for years. She finally found out she had lyme and is getting the proper care for it now.

Good luck in your search for clues. I hope we get to the bottom of this.

By the way I am also trying a diet without sugar and without flour.

I wish we could all get together for a conference or seminar on POIS. I also think a wiki page or website on the illness would be helpful.  does anyone know any doctors willing to do some research on this? I'm going to ask around.

Thanks,
Animus.


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Offline Dr. Matt

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1216 on: 12/09/2008 02:39:30 »
Hey Guys/Gals, I'm a pharmacist of 14+ years, and I've gone to medical school for 2 years. I think that we have a good chance of beating this thing, but its going to take everyone's help.

First of all, from my research with this syndrome it is the male version of chronic fatigue disorder. The difference is that most men, are able to keep the infection at bay until they have an orgasm. The orgasm sets in motion a hormonal cascade that is detrimental to the immune system and beneficial to the infection that we all currently have.

I know a lot of you have discussed fungal infections and specifically, Candida. That may be part of it, but is most likely secondary. The candida infection is secondary to a latent L-form bacteria infection that you have that has infiltrated your immune system.

The good news is, there is a cure. The bad news is, it may take up to 5 years in some cases. The reason why most of us do not have full blown Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as discribed by Trevor MARSHALL, Biochemist, is because men in general have a much more robust immune system. While we have a latent infection, keep in mind, its still an infection, we just go on living our lives with very few symptoms.. that is.. until we are stressed out, have sex or experience some sort of physical trauma. This again, causes a cascade of events that allows the latent infection to re-emerge and start producing toxins that cause us significant fatigue, both physical, emotional, and mental. Up until now, many of you have found ways to mask the symptoms or at least bring your immune system back online to bring the fight back to the infection to force it back into latency. If that works for you, great. If not, consider starting the MARSHALL PROTOCOL and start working towards a total eradication of the L-form bacteria, which in turn will take care of the candida, which will take care of the fatigue.

Best Wishes,

Dr. Matt
« Last Edit: 12/09/2008 05:15:00 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1217 on: 12/09/2008 03:19:47 »
There is a section on "over-masturbation" (http://herballove.com/article.asp?Art=216) which describes many of the horrible symptoms of POIS - especially brain fog. 

pyropeach.......Very interesting article!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1218 on: 12/09/2008 03:25:27 »
Hey Guys/Gals, I'm a pharmacist of 14+ years, and I've gone to medical school for 2 years. I think that we have a good chance of beating this thing, but its going to take everyone's help.

First of all, from my research with this syndrome it is the male version of chronic fatigue disorder. The difference is that most men, are able to keep the infection at bay until they have an orgasm. The orgasm sets in motion a hormonal cascade that is detrimental to the immune system and beneficial to the infection that we all currently have.

I know a lot of you have discussed fungal infections and specifically, Candida. That may be part of it, but is most likely secondary. The candida infection is secondary to a latent L-form bacteria infection that you have that has infiltrated your immune system.

The good news is, there is a cure. The bad news is, it may take up to 5 years in some cases. The reason why most of us do not have full blown Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as discribed by Trevor MARSHALL, Biochemist, is because men in general have a much more robust immune system. While we have a latent infection, keep in mind, its still an infection, we just go on living our lives with very few symptoms.. that is.. until we are stressed out, have sex or experience some sort of physical trauma. This again, causes a cascade of events that allows the latent infection to re-emerge and start producing toxins that cause us significant fatigue, both physical, emotional, and mental. Up until now, many of you have found ways to mask the symptoms or at least bring your immune system back online to bring the fight back to the infection to force it back into latency. If that works for you, great. If not, consider starting the MARSHALL PROTOCOL and start working towards a total eradication of the L-form bacteria, which in turn will take care of the candida, which will take care of the fatigue.
Best Wishes,
Dr. Matt
"Dr. Matt"(is that an MD or PhD?), from my own 30+ years' studying and cure attempts with POIS, including significant success, I'm not at all convinced that infection or CFS has anything to do with POIS. Are there research studies that have been conducted to prove this? If you read through the 500+ posts from the 100+ POIS sufferers here at this Forum, several of us, after 1 and 1/2 years, and building on the pioneering published POIS work of Dr. Marcel Waldinger, MD, at Leyenburg Hospital in the Netherlands in 2002, are positively on track with immediate POIS cures. We have been looking for outside help from a research endocrinologist to go through our findings and make some recommendations for concrete studies with our data and listmember cooperation, perhaps in "live" studies. It would take a tremendous amount of convincing evidence - including the results of double-blind test/control group studies on infection - to switch to something that could take 5 years!
« Last Edit: 12/09/2008 17:09:06 by demografx »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1219 on: 12/09/2008 03:43:50 »
Thank you for telling me about herballove.com i didnt want to spend fifty dollars for no result.
whoa there is an experienced person in the mix, i thought this was rarely known by doctors.
What is this five year treatment?

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1220 on: 12/09/2008 04:11:22 »
CC, welcome to the POIS Forum! I went to the website http://www.herballove.com/ and didn't see anything related to POIS problems. Can you point me to the right place on their website? Thank you!

ps - can you tell us more about your POIS experiences?


I noticed symptoms of pois when i started getting curious about why i am sometimes the most talkative in a group and other times i cant put in a word. When I noticed it was caused by ejaculation, i realized for about a week and half after ejaculation i had this symptons - extremely tired first two days, cant hold conversations, a kind of back burn that last a couple of days, lack of concentration, common sense questions become a problem for me, seriously bad memory, when it is really bad i cant even read a book without feeling that nothing is registering, and wanting to eat a lot for a couple of days.
 After the week and the half i get a very high boost of energy. During this period my memory comes back, socialization becomes all to easy, am not a good essay period, but during this period essay was not problem. I have timed may essays for these period.  This high energy last for couple of days and then i return back to normal.
However lately that cycle is not occuring.

I was wondering does weight add to this problem, because when i loose weight i tend to improve and when i gain it gets kinda worse.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1221 on: 12/09/2008 04:18:50 »
THE MARSHALL PROTOCOL IS A RISKY CHOICE. APPROACH IT WITH CAUTION.

The Marshall Protocol is VERY extreme and requires a multi-year regimen of low dose antibiotics, along with
an anti-hypertensive (Benicar), no Vitamin D, OR foods with Vitamin D... AND NO SUN EXPOSURE. People on
"the MP" are instructed to wear dark glasses and to carry umbrellas, in order to avoid even minimal sun ex-
posure. This is not just for a few weeks or months, but can be UP TO A FEW YEARS. Any side effects or health
problems that people encounter while on The MArshall Protocol are reduced by the MP-ers to what they call
"immunopathology," or a Herxheimer reaction (in other words a healing crisis). Though sometimes this can
be a valid call, the danger is when the Herxheimer reaction is used as a blanket rationalization to convince
patients that the protocol they are on could NOT POSSIBLY be the cause of any side effects they are suffering,
and that any side effects or health issues they have are ALL part of the "healing crisis."

In my research on the MP I found complaints made by people on other websites about some of the side effects
and setbacks they suffered with their health because of the protocol. I also found a woman who had been a
moderator on the MP website, who was BANNED FROM IT, just for questioning the protocol. IN her own words:
"I was banned because I expressed concern for a patient who had been vomiting three days, had elevated kidney
tests, and needed IV fluids. This patient's doctor had stated these things. When I encouraged this patient to
follow the doctor's directions, and that minocycline and Benicar both can affect kidney function, my post was
deleted.... When I protested the deletion of my cautionary message I was banned."
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.med.diseases.lyme/2005-08/msg01797.html

That's the part of the MP that feels rather scarey. There have been complaints of a certain "cultish" quality
among the MP-ers, as they do not appreciate any skepticism or doubt about the protocol, despite the fact
that the protocol is in fact based on an UNPROVEN THEORY, and NOT a proven conclusive study. By doing the
protocol you will volunteering to be a guinea pig in that study. So it's best to approach it with much caution.
 
You can check out some of the risks at this website.
Risks are discussed here http://www.natmedtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1643   

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1222 on: 12/09/2008 05:09:57 »
girlwind, thank you very much for this MARSHALL PROTOCOL warning!
« Last Edit: 12/09/2008 05:44:02 by demografx »

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Offline digitalmac

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1223 on: 12/09/2008 14:38:21 »
It is a big encouragement to find this thread. I've been following it for about a week and have read nearly every post over the past 54 pages.

I am a 20 year old male. About a year ago, I started experiencing somewhat random fatigue and extreme brain fog. Getting out of bed was becoming a struggle on certain days (even after a good nights rest). Only recently did I realize that it is not random. The symptoms always started the day after a nocturnal emission. They last 2-3 days then completely disappear by the 4th day. I've got no heath issues, and consider myself to be in reasonably healthy person.

I have experimented taking a Cortisol supplement called Isocourt. Certainly doesn't seem to have any affect during POIS, but does boost my energy after the POIS symptoms are over.

For those saying that it's a physiological issue, I say that it most certainly is not. I'm hoping that there is a relatively simple fix to this problem. Would be great to get a doctor to investigate this for us. Looking forward to becoming a part of this community and finding a cure!

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Offline Dr. Matt

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1224 on: 12/09/2008 14:39:43 »
The initial reaction from my post should be taken with extreme scepticism. I took the Marshall Protocol with the same scepticism and was too banned for suggesting using oral Vancomycin instead of metronidazole for the c. difficile that the antibiotics of the protocol caused one woman.

What I can tell you is, there is nothing wrong with most of us, the hormonal imbalances are caused by this infection, we all can successfully treat the symptoms, as I too have done, or we can get to the root of the problem and never have to take another thing.

Like I said, I only offer the truth - Morpheus


Those of you that are getting off of dairy, keep in mind that milk protien (casein) contributes heavily to neurotransmitter production. Make sure you suppliment with enough tyrosine and phenylalanine if you are no longer eating dairy products. (Tyrosine is phenylalanine with a hydroxl group on the 4th carbon of the aromatic ring).

Those of you that have had success with Garlic therapy, keep up the good work! This helps the immune system fight off the L-form bacteria. Please consider adding Vitamin C 500-1500mg three times a day (water soluable vitamin) to your treatment.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1225 on: 12/09/2008 17:16:44 »
...the [POIS] hormonal imbalances are caused by this infection...

"Dr Matt", prove that POIS is caused by infection, state your credentials, and convince us you've actually studied POIS here or elsewhere or please don't bother posting your advertising here again or it will be deleted. Thank you.
« Last Edit: 12/09/2008 20:07:29 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1226 on: 12/09/2008 17:40:22 »
digitalmac, welcome to The POIS Forum! Thank you very much for your contributed post, and I look forward to reading more about you in future posts.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1227 on: 12/09/2008 18:40:00 »
For those saying that it's a physiological issue, I say that it most certainly is not.

digitalmac, then what do you think it is?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1228 on: 12/09/2008 20:11:41 »
Thanks demografx, I was going to write something similar.  How does "Dr. Matt" know anything about POIS?  Every physician I have talked to (and I have talked to many) has not heard of this problem.  It is rare.  Dr. Matt, how could you be so sure that this works against POIS without having done some extensive research on it?  Did someone come to you with POIS? Did you have POIS? 

Again, I think pretty much everyone missed the nuance in what I was suggesting in regards to psychological issues.  I wanted to emphasize the point that there isn't this big disconnection between the psychological and physical that most people think there is.  I get the sense girlwind agrees with this point (as does Coreman), as would most of you if you had seen the research behind it (which I would be happy to provide). 

I have this problem too -- and it affects me quite badly sometimes.  I want to get better, and I am doing what I can to help myself, and others too.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1229 on: 12/09/2008 20:21:20 »
Re: Immune system argument.

I don't think a weakened immune system is contributing to POIS, at least not with me.  First of all, it seems almost impossible that the immune system would weaken so profoundly following orgasm that we would feel such powerful symptoms immediately.  Secondly, orgasm is known to improve the immune system response, and I believe this is the case with me, despite the awful symptoms.  Many years ago, I would have orgasm only a couple times a month.  Every year I would get quite sick about three times, with some sort of flu; this happened consistently and for about 7 years.  When I began to have orgasm more often, I never got sick at all for years.  Given that I did not make any significant other changes, this seems like more than a coincidence.

I think this is a chemical problem.  Perhaps a problem with the adrenal glands.  I'm doing experiments that would test this (at least for me).  I am likely going to try the garlic after I finish these experiments (for the sake of figuring out what each remedy is specifically doing).  I was wondering how I could possibly eat whole gloves of garlic though! :).  Thanks for the tip about chopping up + water.  I was thinking garlic pills might be the way to go, but then I wouldn't want to risk missing some sort of 'active ingredient'.

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Offline poisONoUS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1230 on: 12/09/2008 20:22:20 »
Hey Dr. Matt,
I just wanted to raise a question about the L-form bacteria that might be causing POIS. It is an interesting theory, but I jsut feel that doesnt completely make sense. As you mentioned in your posting, the bacteria gets out of its latency state whenever our immune system goes down: after sex, stressing out, having a cold, etc. However, whenever I have a cold or a flu and my body is feeling very weak, how come this bacteria doesnt take any action? How come I dont feel the same symptoms that I would after orgasm? I definitely feel mentally and phisically weaker when I am sick, but it is not like my brain is fogged up. It is just tired... just like the rest of my body. It is not like it is any slower. The speed at which thoughts are going thru my head is pretty much the same as when I am not sick. As many of us have described in here, the feeling after POIS is something very unique, and it is hard to compare it to the feeling of being sick.

So again.. the question is: How come this bacteria doesnt take the opportunity to attack my body when I am sick? Why does it only happen after orgasm?

Thanks for your postings and the tip about the casey protein being lacked in the dairy diet.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1231 on: 12/09/2008 20:24:45 »
Reminder: questionnaire can be found at http://pois.olympe-network.com
Filling it out helps us better understand and formalize this problem.

Also: Many thanks to Martin88 for his technical assistance.  He found the olympe-network host.
:)
« Last Edit: 12/09/2008 20:34:39 by Counterpoints »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1232 on: 12/09/2008 21:47:43 »
Matt,
Quote
While we have a latent infection, keep in mind, its still an infection, we just go on living our lives with very few symptoms.. that is.. until we are stressed out, have sex or experience some sort of physical trauma

I can conceive that it might be a latent infection that emerges by some mechanism post sex, but stress or trauma most certainly have never initiated my POIS.

It is also quite peculiar how we seem to have such a wide variety of symptoms, mine were mainly of a mental nature, while I have never experienced fatigue issues like others have. Perhaps we have multiple bugs on the loose.

I am glad that I have something that is working for me, as I am not tempted to try this extreme experiment you are suggesting. I am curious to read the thoughts of this Trever Marshall, but obviously, depriving oneself of vitamins doesn't sound wise.
« Last Edit: 12/09/2008 22:04:22 by John21 »

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Offline neilep

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1233 on: 12/09/2008 21:58:03 »
Can I just say that it's fantastic to see the solidarity of fellowship amongst the wonderful people here in this thread.

Demografx and everybody else does a wonderful job to investigate and continue the motivation to find a cure/treatment. Demografx is a fantastic moderator !

You are all extremely correct to treat any new information with skepticism and question everything...and do keep questioning !..This is of course how true results are found by asking and empirical research !

Hopefully Dr Matt will respond with some evidence not just of his findings but also his/her credentials. If Dr Matt is bonafide then he/she should not step away from the questions but relish the opportunity here to elaborate further.


Good on you all !!


Hugs


neil
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1234 on: 12/09/2008 22:43:56 »
Again, I think pretty much everyone missed the nuance in what I was suggesting in regards to psychological issues.
I may have missed it, too. Perhaps from too many years (decades actually!) of dead-end frustration chasing my tail with psychologists, psychiatrists and "spiritual guides". I'll try to be more open.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1235 on: 12/09/2008 22:50:15 »
Can I just say that it's fantastic to see the solidarity of fellowship amongst the wonderful people here in this thread.

Demografx and everybody else does a wonderful job to investigate and continue the motivation to find a cure/treatment. Demografx is a fantastic moderator !

You are all extremely correct to treat any new information with skepticism and question everything...and do keep questioning !..This is of course how true results are found by asking and empirical research !

Hopefully Dr Matt will respond with some evidence not just of his findings but also his/her credentials. If Dr Matt is bonafide then he/she should not step away from the questions but relish the opportunity here to elaborate further.


Good on you all !!


Hugs


neil

THANKS MUCH, NEIL, FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT AND POSITIVE FEEDBACK!!!!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1236 on: 13/09/2008 03:26:57 »
No worries Demo. I completely relate to how you feel.  I'm fighting a battle with myself to try and be objective, and it's hard.  It's so annoying when someone just dismisses things that are really affecting you, when they obviously haven't given you a fair hearing, and hardly know anything about your particular situation. 

John: Your case and mine seem quite similar.  I do not have marked physical symptoms.  Just excruciating mental ones.  I get a horrible feeling of agony when I try to exert myself mentally, when symptomatic. I also have terrible difficulty expressing myself -- even simple thoughts.  And my speech is quite obviously interrupted, and quite frequently, by forgetting the names of even very simple words -- bench, mat, trunk, etc. I'm hoping the garlic will help and I will keep everyone posted.  Is there anything else you are trying?

CCconfucius: From the amount I am linking the form (http://pois.olympe-network.com), I'm guessing it is no surprise I recommend filling it out.  After you are finished, you are automatically given a link to other people's responses -- including their theories.  I would recommend printing some of these responses, and showing them to your Dr.

Also, you can look through the forum.  B_jim, amongst others, have some good thoughts on the potential cause of this problem.

Thank ewe Neil. ;)
« Last Edit: 13/09/2008 03:30:03 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1237 on: 13/09/2008 17:12:59 »
On The immune system theory: 
1. My lymphe nodes swell.  So wouldn't that be a symptom of my immune system going into high  gear?
2. With a shut down immune system  I would then be succeptable to various illnesss.  Other than POIS I hardly ever get anything.  During Flu season I will hand around those who have the FLU and haven't had it for years.  The last bad one was in 1991 and I know that I had a very busy schedule for a couple of weeks and would have avoided orgasm to have enough energy. overall fatigue probably contributed.  I had a mild case in 96 but I had ended a relationship and was in a very unsexual mode.  I had also just gotten over a prostate infection and had taken antibiotics.  Depression may have also contributed to them
3.Since I have benefitted in recovery process with Vitamins. Why would I delete them?  They don't seem be part of the problem> Plus Probotics help by increasing Gut bacteria.  Doses of antibiotics would kill the essential bacteria.  This seems similar to Chemo and Radiation for Cancer patients.  You need to get the Cancer cells so to kill them do mass destruction.  When totally desperate that may be the ony hope.  The alernative is death.
 Avoiding sunlght as well sound like a cure where you push your body to the brink of death so you come back but rhe bacteria may not.   

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1238 on: 13/09/2008 17:40:37 »
This is a delayed response about the psychosomatic discussion (it took a while to write).

It is generally but not always assumed that if something has a significant psychosocial factor, it therefore has a psychosocial solution and any bio-psychological abnormalities will mostly correct themselves. How Counterpoints defined psychosomatic sounds more specific (rather than broader) than girlwind's suggestion, because it mostly deals with brain chemistry. However, he also then makes a good point that non-psychological issues could be closely intertwined with psychosomatic symptoms. If POIS is psychosomatic in the sense that a psychiatric dysfunction/weakness is causing physical symptoms after sexual activity, it doesn't necessarily imply a primary psychological causation as such; the direction of causation is debatable even for "mental disorders" as they can be "neuropsychiatric". I generally agree with demografx's statement: "POIS is largely physical, and not psychologically rooted - ALTHOUGH early psychological trauma may have contributed to its early development." Any existing psychological factors (some of which have been expressed at this forum) are obviously a personal issue that varies between individual cases, and may or may not have an important role. However, we are now heading into a very grey area when trying to determine what role and what degree this plays a role.

I agree with girlwind's notion of psychological stresses having potential longterm damage that can spread outside the usual realm of biological psychiatry. Psychological stress and psychiatric illness are both associated with increased risk of developing a range of serious diseases, but research into the exact mechanisms has a long way to go. Whether or not this makes them "psychosomatic" depends on the definition used. Psychiatric illness itself often if not usually involves secondary physical symptoms, which only confuses the issue because the relationship isn't fully understood. The mind-body problem remains unsolved and the history of psychiatry itself seems to reveal a relatively poor accuracy on the issue.

Some interpretations of "psychosomatic" that I have come across include:
(a) people experience mental-emotional distress "as" physical symptoms (it somehow gets "converted");
(b) people confuse mental-emotional distress with the consequential physical symptoms because they can't tell the difference;
(c) people undergoing mental-emotional distress are "focusing too much" on "ordinary" physical symptoms;
(d) people's mental-emotional distress has "sensitized" their nervous system to physical sensations;
(e) people have a reduced tolerance and are simply complaining about "ordinary" physical sensations that everyone else accepts as normal;
(f) chronic mental-emotional distress causes a secondary disruption of biological systems, giving rise to chronic physical symptoms, especially under load;
(g) chronic mental-emotional distress is a catalyst for the development of other diseases.

The classification of an illness is difficult without knowing much about the mechanisms. Keeping in mind, both the terms "psychological" and "physical" have a broader context than some people may realise. Psychological factors are obviously mediated through biological mechanisms, while physical dysfunction doesn't necessarily mean "organic". I think that some answers will be found in psychoneuroimmunology, but there is some way to go yet. The medical profession seems just as confident as ever that essentially all (important) diseases have been discovered, and the tendency to over psychologise other peoples "medically unexplained" physical symptoms is probably just as common as it was in Freud's era, and yet we shouldn't overestimate the scientific understanding of "somatisation".

It is unlikely that POIS will be generally accepted as an actual disease any time soon, at best it might be viewed as a "functional somatic syndrome" or interpreted within a "biopsychosocial" framework, which generally means a psychiatric undertone and has been used synonymously with psychosomatic illnesses as a euphemism for them. Along with this comes the usual old arguments about being "stress induced" (it will go away once you're no longer psychologically stressed) or "belief based" (conditioning yourself to experiencing POIS), and your disagreement will be seen as a form of denial or evidence that you lack the insight to realise the "real" source of your problems.

Food for thought!

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1239 on: 13/09/2008 19:11:48 »
Thank you Post-chronic, for your very well articulated thoughts. At least, we in the West have gotten
beyond illness viewed as "demonic possession." [;D]  Or maybe we've just exchanged the term "demons"
for that of psycho-pathology.
« Last Edit: 13/09/2008 21:18:09 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1240 on: 13/09/2008 22:42:18 »
At least, we in the West have gotten beyond illness viewed as "demonic possession." [;D]  Or maybe we've just exchanged the term "demons" for that of psycho-pathology.
girlwind, this is great. But I still need to know if my periodic depression is caused by black or yellow bile. I'm also considering a POIS cure of blood-letting [:)]
« Last Edit: 13/09/2008 23:33:17 by demografx »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1241 on: 13/09/2008 23:07:23 »
post-chronic, you sound like you have some serious scientific training in your background, is that correct?
« Last Edit: 13/09/2008 23:28:53 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1242 on: 14/09/2008 01:32:54 »
I think this is...perhaps a problem with the adrenal glands.
Counterpoints, this is exactly what a longtime Oriental medicine practitioner concluded about my POIS years ago. Specifically, she said my adrenal glands were "too small" - presumably to withstand the shock of orgasm?
« Last Edit: 14/09/2008 01:41:11 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1243 on: 14/09/2008 04:39:49 »
Demografx: I'm not an expert in physiology, and I haven't carefully studied the adrenal gland possibility -- I plan to do so soon -- but here are some loose points I have collected, in a somewhat disorganized way, over time.

- Orgasm affects dopamine levels
- Very low dopamine levels associated with many of the symptoms we have experienced (see ref. 1).
- Very high dopamine levels can also cause some of our symptoms (I remember reading this in the past - a good ref. would be useful).
- Dopamine is a catecholamine closely related to adrenaline and noradrenaline
- The adrenal glands chiefly responsible for regulating the "stress" response through the synthesis of corticosteroids and
catecholamines (wikipedia).
- Adrenal glands produce the catecholamine hormones adrenaline (epinephrine) and noradrenaline (norepinephrine). These water-soluble hormones, derived from the amino acid tyrosine, are part of the fight-or-flight response initiated by the sympathetic nervous system. (Wiki)
- I often feel as though I'm engaged in the "flight" response during periods of POIS
- Beta blockers block the action of endogenous catecholamines (epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) in particular), on β-adrenergic receptors, part of the sympathetic nervous system which mediates the fight or flight response.(Wiki)
- Imre1 recovered after using Emconcor (bisoprolol), a fairly selective Beta-1 blocker
- There are three known types of beta receptor, designated β1, β2 and β3. β1-Adrenergic receptors are located mainly in the heart and in the kidneys. β2-Adrenergic receptors are located mainly in the lungs, gastrointestinal tract, liver, uterus, vascular smooth muscle, and skeletal muscle. β3-receptors are located in fat cells. (Wiki).
- I have an anaphylactic allergic reaction to peanuts; as a result, I've had to be directly injected with adrenaline many times in my life.  While this certainly has an effect on me, it has not caused POIS symptoms.

Some possible conclusions:
- Following orgasm, unusual levels of dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline, or some other corticosteroid or catecholamines, may be causing some of our symptoms.
- Based on Imre1's solution, Beta-1 receptors may be more relevant to this problem than Beta-2 or Beta-3 receptors.
- Adrenaline may not be as relevant as other catecholamines to this problem (based on my reaction to adrenaline injection).

Routes:
- Interesting to see the results of non-selective beta blockers (like nadolol), and selective beta blockers, on our symptoms.
- Wellbutrin, a dopamine and noradrenaline re-uptake inhibitor, is likely also worth testing, though it could have an opposite effect to betablockers. 

(Note: I tried Wellbutrin for a couple days, and then stopped.  It did not have a markedly bad or good effect on the symptoms, though I would likely have to try it for many weeks to really know.  I did feel more focused, and got more work done than usual with the Wellbutrin.  It felt somewhat like having taken Ritalin.  Anxiety increased somewhat.  I would recommend talking about this med with your physician.  I have also tried nadolol and bisoprolol, though I used the nadolol inconsistently.  I am still testing bisoprolol, but I can say I have not felt any adverse effects on symptoms, and believe I am feeling some improvement.  I cannot be sure yet, however.).

This information is not authoritative.  I encourage others to do their own research.  I plan on discussing this with a physician, and doing some thorough research, when I have time.

References (I encourage others to read, they are very informative and not long):
1: http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress
2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_glands
3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker

« Last Edit: 14/09/2008 04:42:45 by Counterpoints »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1244 on: 14/09/2008 17:16:59 »
I am currently reading about overactive thyroid disorders, hyperthyroidism. I have explored this before and found a dead end when the blood tests were negative, yet I am again curious due to symptoms that fit my profile: insomnia, double vision, etc. The fact that the amount of sugar consumption has a direct relationship to how early I wake at night makes me suspicious of a metabolism problem, which is apparently what the thyroid hormones control. Another symptom is frequent bowel movements. Due to my healthy diet I am regular every morning (unless I am trying new diets), but it often consists of more than one movement, three is not unusual. There is always the tendency to see our own symptoms in unrelated diseases, but I feel I have to explore this some more.

If I do have a thyroid problem it may be secondary to POIS, resulting from the havoc that POIS wrought. Or perhaps POIS is actually an unusual manifestation of a thyroid problem... hyperthyroidism symptoms are quite varied and include attention span problems and fatigue.

Has anyone else here been tested for thyroid problems?

Compare your symptoms: http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsforthyroid/a/selftest.htm



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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1245 on: 14/09/2008 17:52:08 »
I think this is...perhaps a problem with the adrenal glands.
Counterpoints, this is exactly what a longtime Oriental medicine practitioner concluded about my POIS years ago. Specifically, she said my adrenal glands were "too small" - presumably to withstand the shock of orgasm?

According to my understanding of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), the emphasis there is not so much on
the physical pathology, but more on the function of the organs and movement of chi (energy) through them.
Also, the diagnostic labels of what define "an organ" are much broader in definition than those of Western
medicine. So it surprises me that a TCM practitioner would actually conclude that your adrenals are too small....?
Which isn't to say that they're not, it's just that it seems a rather a presumptuous diagnosis. Maybe... considering
that TCM divides chi into two categories--one being the chi (energy) gathered from food and air and water, and
the other being the source energy, or what they call the "congenital chi," what she meant was that your congenital
chi is weak or deficient. Just a thought...

Usually, in my visits with acupuncturists and TCM practitioners, I've been diagnosed as having a "kidney
deficiency" (among other things), and being both kidney yang and kidney yin deficienct. The kidney yang
correlates most closely in Western terms to adrenal functioning, and more generally to the functioning of
the energy metabolism and the endocrine system. The yang of the kidney--adrenals is considered the
"root energy" of the body, like the pilot light for our entire energy system. The kidney yin refers to all
the fluid aspects of the body--like blood, lymph, reproductive juices, hormonal secretions, etc. Tonifying
the yang deficiency, without upsetting the yin, is rather tricky and requires someone very skilled with herbs.

There are tonic herbs that are prescribed for something like this, and some of these have been very helpful
for me. However, one of the best practitioners I've met emphasized the importance of personal habits as
being a key element in repairing any kind of deficiency condition. As she put it, "you can gobble down tonic
herbs until the cows come home, but if you keep on burning LIKE THAT, you'll never catch up on the energy
you've lost." The main "habit" that I've had to address (sometimes less successfully than I'd like to) is NEVER
“RUNNING ON EMPTY,” when it comes to rest and food. This means: ALWAYS eating a nourishing breakfast
before beginning any activity, ALWAYS eating regular meals with some protein at each meal, AVOIDING
overdoing to the point of exhaustion, (very hard with CFS), getting to bed as EARLY as possible, ideally by 10
pm., and sleeping at least eight hours, and developing really good TOOLS for coping with stress, so as to
avoid those cortisol spikes that cause so much burn-out.

I know it's a lot easier to take a pill, which is my inclination with all the supplements I eat each day, but I
think the really holistic approach that includes the above has to be included for real healing to happen and
to last. That has been my intention.



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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1246 on: 14/09/2008 18:12:13 »
Has anyone else here been tested for thyroid problems?

Compare your symptoms: http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsforthyroid/a/selftest.htm


Funny you should mention it, but I am currently awaiting my complete hormone profile test results
from ZRT Labs., including a thyroid panel. Will keep you posted on the results.

In the mean time, I have discovered that I have a very significant iodine deficiency, which I think
has been undiagnosed a problem for some time now. I began reading about the thyroid a few weeks
ago and came across a very helpful article/interview with Dr. Joseph Mercola.
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/mercola.htm

According to Mercola, there is a simple test for iodine deficiency.

"A simple way to determine if one requires (iodine) is to paint a patch of tincture of iodine on your
skin the size of a half dollar. The iodine brown coloration should last at least 24 hours. The faster it
is absorbed the greater the body's iodine deficiency."


My iodine patch was gone in 3 hours, so I did another one just to verify, and sure enough this one
had disappeared in 3 hours as well. After this I researched and purchased the supplement below.
http://www.modifilan-seaweed-extract.com/AboutModifilan.aspx?rd=1&categoryid=1&keyword=organic%20seaweed
I've been taking it for only one week and already I have noticed a change in my energy level and in
the almost total relief of a uncomfortable squeezy feeling in my throat. Also, my last orgasm produced
very little in the way of mental fog POIS symptoms, and only the physical fatigue, which lasted only one
day. There could be other factors influencing the minimal POIS as well (my CFS is better right now), but
the addition of the thyroid boosting iodine is something I will be paying close attention to.




« Last Edit: 14/09/2008 18:17:27 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1247 on: 14/09/2008 18:20:30 »
- I often feel as though I'm engaged in the "flight" response during periods of POIS
Counterpoints, in your excellent scientific exploration above, this sentence stands out. I am clearly in "flight" mode in POIS. And POIS definitely clobbers my "fight" mechanism!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1248 on: 14/09/2008 18:30:51 »
So it surprises me that a TCM practitioner would actually conclude that your adrenals are too small....?
Which isn't to say that they're not, it's just that it seems a rather a presumptuous diagnosis.
girlwind, I can't vouch for my TCM practitioner's credibility except to say that she had (now deceased) a successful practice. This may sound silly, but I thought she knew my adrenals were small from touching them (she gave a _brutal_ massage, which felt good afterwards. Maybe because she finally stopped the torture? [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1249 on: 14/09/2008 19:14:57 »
According to my understanding of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), the emphasis there is not so much on
the physical pathology, but more on the function of the organs and movement of chi (energy) through them.
I wasted many years (on and off) chasing the Taoist Mantak Chia's 5,000 year old idea that releasing sperm = losing chi = POIS. His books seemed to me to describe POIS, and that "losing" sperm is the culprit and should be avoided at all costs. So I finally learned his technique of achieving orgasm without ejaculation. But my POIS still raged on its destructive path as badly as it ever did!
« Last Edit: 14/09/2008 19:26:24 by demografx »