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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline John21 (OP)

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1660 on: 22/10/2008 10:29:31 »
Demografx, yes that is generally correct, any NE throughout my life would normally produce NE symptoms.

Pyropeach, I would suggest you try raw garlic and/or fenugreek, you may want to ease onto the fenugreek slowly. Bacopa...I don't really know much about that one, I was just surfing around and mentioned that it looked interesting, it might be a shot in the dark.

Disclaimer: check with your doctor for medical advice, ie. possible drug interactions of any herbal supplement
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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1661 on: 22/10/2008 15:12:51 »
In this document about pde5 inhibitors, perhaps there is an answer concerning the differences between levitra (vardenafil) and cialis (tadalafil). They say that vardenafil has more potency than the other. And I'm not sure, levitra has a better affinity for pde 2,3,4,7,8,10,11 than cialis . What can we do with this. It won't be me ! http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/reprint/24/6_suppl/S52.pdf
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 03:07:52 by martin88 »
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Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1662 on: 23/10/2008 00:39:57 »
Just got the results of my thyroid test back. According to the test, my thyroid is workin good. My read out was:
TSH 0.74, T-3 total = 111, and Thyroxine free = 1.4. So I guess I don't have hypothyroidism...at least not according to the doc.

On a different note, tomorrow I'm going to see a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine. I'm going to get a full Diagnosis. I don't know what you guys all think of Chinese medicine but they have been at it now for about 2 thousand years so there has to be something to it. Maybe they will have an insight. Anywho, I'll let you know what they have to say about POIS.

Also, I just started taking Kyolic aged garlic supplement. We will see how it goes. I'm hesitant to take fenugreek until I know more about it. Demorafx scared me when he said it was advertised as a way for women to increase breast size. I'm going to wait and see if anybody gets breast...then I'll give it a shot:) I'll also ask the TCM doctor about fenugreek.

Tip of the day: massage before sex seems to lessen my POIS symptoms(oxytocin boost) Give it a shot.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1663 on: 23/10/2008 02:05:16 »
Quote from: pyropeach on 22/10/2008 08:30:15
Can anyone tell me the link to that place where you can request your own blood test?  I've been lookin through the forum, but can't find it...and my pois isn't exactly helping any.

I've ordered bacopa and fenugreek to give them a try.

I think that was ZRT Labs, posted by girlwind.
http://www.zrtlab.com/default.aspx?s=1
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 02:35:31 by demografx »
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1664 on: 23/10/2008 02:19:34 »
Quote from: Chewbacca on 23/10/2008 00:39:57
Demografx scared me when he said it was advertised as a way for women to increase breast size. I'm going to wait and see if anybody gets breast...then I'll give it a shot:) I'll also ask the TCM doctor about fenugreek.

Sorry to have scared you. My googling was uninformed, and also the random search result didn't say how fenugreek affects males. Chewbacca, I'm just trying to introduce a little caution here so that people don't blindly ingest substances - based on someone's enthusiastic post - even though they seem innocuous on the surface. Fenugreek seems harmless enough, but knowing that my body - like everyone's - is unique, I just would want to know a little more from someone more knowledgeable than me. Like my doctor, or like my local health food store owner who is a professional nutritionist, athlete and college instructor and someone whom I've known for years.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1665 on: 23/10/2008 02:31:06 »
Quote from: martin88 on 22/10/2008 15:12:51
In this document about pde5 inhibitors, perhaps there is an answer concerning the differences between levitra (vardenafil) and cialis (tadalafil). They say that vardenafil have more potency than the other. And I'm not sure, levitra have a better affinity for pde 2,3,4,7,8,10,11 than cialis . What can we do with this. It won't be me ! http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/reprint/24/6_suppl/S52.pdf

Martin, excellent finding, that was very interesting! I've wondered - and others here too, I think - about Levitra/Cialis differences. And now we know there is a difference!

I'm lucky that I was given Levitra first. If it was Cialis and I had the same poor result as before, I would have never thought about ED meds - or their components - possibly helping POIS!
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 02:32:41 by demografx »
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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1666 on: 23/10/2008 03:17:58 »
Quote from: pyropeach on 22/10/2008 08:30:15
Can anyone tell me the link to that place where you can request your own blood test?  I've been lookin through the forum, but can't find it...and my pois isn't exactly helping any.

It could be also in this post : http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg199872#msg199872
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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1667 on: 23/10/2008 03:23:51 »
Quote from: demografx on 23/10/2008 02:31:06
Martin, excellent finding, that was very interesting! I've wondered - and others here too, I think - about Levitra/Cialis differences. And now we know there is a difference!
For the Vardenafil it seems that maybe it's not the pde5 but the pde 2,3,4,7,8,10,11 which are helping you. We are stuck with this now ! We can just play the lottery with these numbers !

Quote from: Chewbacca on 23/10/2008 00:39:57
On a different note, tomorrow I'm going to see a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine. I'm going to get a full Diagnosis. I don't know what you guys all think of Chinese medicine but they have been at it now for about 2 thousand years so there has to be something to it. Maybe they will have an insight. Anywho, I'll let you know what they have to say about POIS.
Hi Chewbacca, this is great! Let us know about the results. Where did you find this practitionner ? I hope he's knowing something about herbs. I sent a letter recently to a TCM clinic in Germany but they didn't answer, it's a deception for me. I think I'll send them another letter.
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 03:45:45 by martin88 »
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Offline Shahnameh

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1668 on: 23/10/2008 04:53:00 »
The Fenugreek all but cured me. Hurray, thanks for the great advice.

I've been keeping up with this thread for a while now, but I never felt the need to post. I simply didn't have anything to add to the discussion. My symptoms are typical of the ones this thread describes: for a couple of days after an orgasm, I can't sustain any thinking longer than a few seconds. Some slight depression also hit me during these post-orgasm periods.

But now that the Fenugreek has proven that it can clear that oppressive brain fog, I just want to give my appreciation to Hurray. I probably would never have stumbled upon Fenugreek on my own.

If anyone out there doesn't know which of the many proposed remedies to try, definitely give Fenugreek a try. I've been through three orgasm to post-orgasm cycles, and the Fenugreek has worked every time. After orgasm, there's only a slight sluggishness for an hour or so. After that, I'm back to being active and alert. Maybe three cycles isn't enough to prove conclusively that the Fenugreek isn't merely a placebo, but the Fenugreek has yet to let me down.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1669 on: 23/10/2008 06:17:11 »
Quote from: Shahnameh on 23/10/2008 04:53:00
The Fenugreek all but cured me. Hurray, thanks for the great advice.

I've been keeping up with this thread for a while now, but I never felt the need to post. I simply didn't have anything to add to the discussion. My symptoms are typical of the ones this thread describes: for a couple of days after an orgasm, I can't sustain any thinking longer than a few seconds. Some slight depression also hit me during these post-orgasm periods.

But now that the Fenugreek has proven that it can clear that oppressive brain fog, I just want to give my appreciation to Hurray. I probably would never have stumbled upon Fenugreek on my own.

If anyone out there doesn't know which of the many proposed remedies to try, definitely give Fenugreek a try. I've been through three orgasm to post-orgasm cycles, and the Fenugreek has worked every time. After orgasm, there's only a slight sluggishness for an hour or so. After that, I'm back to being active and alert. Maybe three cycles isn't enough to prove conclusively that the Fenugreek isn't merely a placebo, but the Fenugreek has yet to let me down.

SHAHNAMEH, WELCOME TO THE POIS FORUM!

YOUR POST IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL ENDORSEMENTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE POIS FORUM!

TO EVERYONE: I CONTINUE TO ADVISE CAUTION. ASK YOUR TRUSTED HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL IF FENUGREEK IS RIGHT FOR YOU. I HOPE IT IS!
(FOR YOUR BODY CHEMISTRY, INTERACTION EFFECT WITH OTHER SUBSTANCES TAKEN...AND POIS!)

THANK YOU FORUM-MEMBER HURRAY FOR PUTTING THIS IN MOTION!
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 06:34:31 by demografx »
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1670 on: 23/10/2008 06:29:29 »
Shahnameh, would you kindly describe your Fenugreek protocol? Timing, dose, and any other consideration. Thank you!
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1671 on: 23/10/2008 09:00:44 »
And Fenugreek just may be the direct-hit of oxytocin that is needed for POIS? The Wisconsin article that B_Jim shows above says that enough is not known yet about ED drugs such as Levitra's stimulation of oxytocin production...in humans. Maybe it's hit or miss? Maybe that's why I had no relief from Cialis? And why Levitra is inconsistent? (sometimes 50% alleviation of POIS, other times 75%)
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 09:12:14 by demografx »
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1672 on: 23/10/2008 09:30:39 »
Yes, B_Jim, I agree, it seems that the lack of oxytocin production is a major factor in POIS and why Levitra and Fenugreek are showing success!
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 11:34:40 by demografx »
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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1673 on: 23/10/2008 14:49:32 »
I'd like to know how can you know that oxytocin is the effective ingredient from fenugreek ?

From the Waldinger's paper :
A few studies in males and females have shown that during and after orgasm prolactine and oxytocin concentrations are increased
AND
However, oxytocine has been suggested to negatively interfere with cognition

I took fenugreek when I was in my mid twenties but it's frustrating, I didn't notice it was so helpful. There was a slight improvement of pois symptoms but not enough. Maybe I'm not a typical case of pois and I have mixed diseases along with pois so I'm not a reference. Also my fenugreek pills had sugar around them, I couldn't find an other brand. I think fenugreek has other properties : it lowers potassium and blood sugar level. Remember Finally's post, he's better with salt which is decreasing potassium, and one of my post states I'm aggravated by vegetables (in pois), however if I'm sexually abstinent I'm improved with vegetables. There is a link between adrenals and potassium/sodium.

It's written below, do not take St John's Wort with fenugreek (I know some of you take this). And also with garlic there is a risk of bleeding for some people !

VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT FENUGREEK:
Quote
Interactions
Interactions with drugs, supplements and other herbs have not been thoroughly studied. The interactions listed below have been reported in scientific publications. If you are taking prescription drugs, speak with a health care professional or pharmacist before using herbs or dietary supplements.

Interactions With Drugs
Fenugreek may interfere with the absorption of other drugs that are taken orally, and fenugreek should be used at least two hours before or after any prescription drug. In theory, fenugreek may increase the risk of bleeding when used with anticoagulants (blood thinners) or antiplatelet drugs. Examples include warfarin (Coumadin), heparin and clopidogrel (Plavix). Some pain relievers may also increase the risk of bleeding if used with fenugreek. Examples include aspirin, ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) and naproxen (Naprosyn, Aleve, Anaprox).

Fenugreek may lower blood sugar levels. Caution is advised if you are also taking drugs that may lower blood sugar levels. Patients taking oral drugs for diabetes or using insulin should be monitored closely by a health care professional while using fenugreek. Dosing adjustments may be necessary.

Because fenugreek may lower potassium levels in the blood, its use with some diuretics, such as hydrochlorothiazide; mineralocorticoids, such as fludrocortisone (Florinef); or laxatives is not recommended because potassium levels may become too low.

Several other drugs interactions have been suggested, but there are no data in humans proving that these interactions exist. Fenugreek may increase the side effects of monoamine oxidase inhibitors or estrogens, may alter the effects of thyroid hormones, may increase the toxic effects of digoxin (Lanoxin) or may inhibit the activity of corticosteroids, such as prednisone.

Interactions With Herbs And Dietary Supplements
Very few interactions between fenugreek and herbs or supplements have been reported. Fenugreek may lower blood sugar levels. People using other herbs or supplements that may alter blood sugar levels, such as bitter melon (Momordica charantia), should be monitored closely by a health care professional while using fenugreek. Dosing adjustments may be necessary. In theory, fenugreek may increase the risk of bleeding when also taken with other products that are believed to increase the risk of bleeding. Examples include Ginkgo biloba and garlic (Allium sativum).

Although not studied in humans, fenugreek may, in theory, increase the toxicity of glycosides, such as foxglove, or of agents with monoamine oxidase inhibitor properties, such as St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum). Fenugreek may also increase the laxative effects in people who use agents such as psyllium or may increase the estrogenlike effects in those using phytoestrogens such as red clover (Trifolium pratense).

« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 15:55:55 by martin88 »
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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1674 on: 23/10/2008 16:22:17 »
Quote from: martin88 on 23/10/2008 14:49:32
I took fenugreek when I was in my mid twenties but it's frustrating, I didn't notice it was so helpful. There was a slight improvement of pois symptoms but not enough. Maybe I'm not a typical case of pois and I have mixed diseases along with pois so I'm not a reference.

WOW, you guys are really on a roll with fenugreek. I'm glad it's been helpful for some of you.
Like you, Martin, I've tried fenugreek in the past, but I don't recall it being helpful. 

In the mean time, I am working on hormonal issues (adrenals, thyroid, estrogen, DHEA)--which are much more complex
(and annoying) than I imagined.   [???] [???]  Also, my hopes for finding a really good compassionate and brilliant MD
were dashed once again. I think there is something in medical school training that programs doctors to be authoritarian
know-it-alls, nixes their compassion and demolishes their capacity for analytical thinking. It's a fact that most doctors
don't read medical journals and learn very little new once they've graduated med school. What I think I'm saying is that
I'm pissed.  [>:(]  I spent $250 out of pocket for a doctor visit that was fruitless, totally unproductive.  But the good news
is that I found a DO who works at the local health food store on Wednesdays, and does ten minute consults FOR FREE.
I got all my questions answered and walked out cured of the doctor visit!  [:D]

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Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1675 on: 23/10/2008 17:58:18 »
Just to keep everyone up to date, my results from Relora are still great.  I had an orgasm last night, slept fine -- no cold sweats or waking up every hour. I still feel "normal" and this was my four orgasm in one week. I would highly recommend Relora if you suffer from mental anxiety and confusion/brain fog after orgasm.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1676 on: 23/10/2008 18:48:29 »
Quote from: martin88 on 23/10/2008 14:49:32
I'd like to know how can you know that oxytocin is the effective ingredient from fenugreek ?

From the Waldinger's paper :
A few studies in males and females have shown that during and after orgasm prolactine and oxytocin concentrations are increased
AND
However, oxytocine has been suggested to negatively interfere with cognition

I took fenugreek when I was in my mid twenties but it's frustrating, I didn't notice it was so helpful. There was a slight improvement of pois symptoms but not enough. Maybe I'm not a typical case of pois and I have mixed diseases along with pois so I'm not a reference. Also my fenugreek pills had sugar around them, I couldn't find an other brand. I think fenugreek has other properties : it lowers potassium and blood sugar level. Remember Finally's post, he's better with salt which is decreasing potassium, and one of my post states I'm aggravated by vegetables (in pois), however if I'm sexually abstinent I'm improved with vegetables. There is a link between adrenals and potassium/sodium.

It's written below, do not take St John's Wort with fenugreek (I know some of you take this). And also with garlic there is a risk of bleeding for some people !

VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT FENUGREEK:
Quote
Interactions
Interactions with drugs, supplements and other herbs have not been thoroughly studied. The interactions listed below have been reported in scientific publications. If you are taking prescription drugs, speak with a health care professional or pharmacist before using herbs or dietary supplements.

Interactions With Drugs
Fenugreek may interfere with the absorption of other drugs that are taken orally, and fenugreek should be used at least two hours before or after any prescription drug. In theory, fenugreek may increase the risk of bleeding when used with anticoagulants (blood thinners) or antiplatelet drugs. Examples include warfarin (Coumadin), heparin and clopidogrel (Plavix). Some pain relievers may also increase the risk of bleeding if used with fenugreek. Examples include aspirin, ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) and naproxen (Naprosyn, Aleve, Anaprox).

Fenugreek may lower blood sugar levels. Caution is advised if you are also taking drugs that may lower blood sugar levels. Patients taking oral drugs for diabetes or using insulin should be monitored closely by a health care professional while using fenugreek. Dosing adjustments may be necessary.

Because fenugreek may lower potassium levels in the blood, its use with some diuretics, such as hydrochlorothiazide; mineralocorticoids, such as fludrocortisone (Florinef); or laxatives is not recommended because potassium levels may become too low.

Several other drugs interactions have been suggested, but there are no data in humans proving that these interactions exist. Fenugreek may increase the side effects of monoamine oxidase inhibitors or estrogens, may alter the effects of thyroid hormones, may increase the toxic effects of digoxin (Lanoxin) or may inhibit the activity of corticosteroids, such as prednisone.

Interactions With Herbs And Dietary Supplements
Very few interactions between fenugreek and herbs or supplements have been reported. Fenugreek may lower blood sugar levels. People using other herbs or supplements that may alter blood sugar levels, such as bitter melon (Momordica charantia), should be monitored closely by a health care professional while using fenugreek. Dosing adjustments may be necessary. In theory, fenugreek may increase the risk of bleeding when also taken with other products that are believed to increase the risk of bleeding. Examples include Ginkgo biloba and garlic (Allium sativum).

Although not studied in humans, fenugreek may, in theory, increase the toxicity of glycosides, such as foxglove, or of agents with monoamine oxidase inhibitor properties, such as St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum). Fenugreek may also increase the laxative effects in people who use agents such as psyllium or may increase the estrogenlike effects in those using phytoestrogens such as red clover (Trifolium pratense).


Thank you, Martin! This gives us much more to think about.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1677 on: 23/10/2008 18:52:45 »
Girlwind and others, perhaps we got too carried away, prematurely, with Fenugreek? If in fact I did, I apologize. Sometimes we all get into that state of wishing that we could finally - after many years of suffering! - arrive at "the solution"!

Girlwind pointed out the danger in doing that.

And perhaps there NEVER will be one solution that works for everyone.

After all, even with cancer, not everyone benefits from the same standard treatments of chemotherapy and radiation!
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 18:58:58 by demografx »
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1678 on: 23/10/2008 19:00:11 »
Quote from: tarkington on 23/10/2008 17:58:18
Just to keep everyone up to date, my results from Relora are still great.  I had an orgasm last night, slept fine -- no cold sweats or waking up every hour. I still feel "normal" and this was my four orgasm in one week. I would highly recommend Relora if you suffer from mental anxiety and confusion/brain fog after orgasm.

Tarkington, congratulations with those terrific results! And thank you for posting them!
« Last Edit: 24/10/2008 00:34:37 by demografx »
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1679 on: 24/10/2008 00:21:29 »
FENUGREEK INTERACTION WITH Rx REGIMEN

I asked my pharmacist today if Fenugreek could be analyzed for its interaction with prescription meds I'm taking, including Levitra.

To my surprise, Fenugreek was in the pharmacy computer system (not all non-prescription drugs, supplements, etc. are in the system, e.g., Relora was not)

The analysis showed no negative interactions between Fenugreek and all other medications I'm taking.

When gathering information to make decisions about alternative remedies, the pharmacist said to be careful when getting info on the Internet, it shouldn't be from just one source. She said that the best information is usually put together from multiple sources.

I'm sure this is old hat to the experienced alternate therapy users here.

Just thought I'd pass this on to let you know that your pharmacy might be able to easily check your regular Rx meds regimen against Fenugreek...and other herbal/alternate remedies.

Determining dosage is a little trickier. I will rely on my health food/nutritionist friend.
« Last Edit: 24/10/2008 00:44:27 by demografx »
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