[Limejuice]

Relora results: Reduction in symptoms (approximate amount 50%)

I began taking Relora Friday and released Saturday(released twice to ensure no placebo effect).  The results were that all symptoms were reduced such as brain fog, social anxiety, and concentration; however, sleep issues and libido still remain.

I will test once again this week after full recovery.

After that I will try the fenugreek.

[demografx]

We have never been so close of the truth. I would like to know if dr Waldinger followed the evolution of glycemia when he examined the two cases.

"And I do get similar symptoms to POIS when I have high concentrations of sugar.."
 [] Defintly.

So, after orgasm we can't controle glycemia ?

B_Jim, I searched Dr. Waldinger's paper for glycemia, hypoglycemia and hyperglycemia and found no results [:-'(]

[demografx]

...released twice to ensure no placebo effect...

all in the name of science! []

Thanks much for posting, Limejuice!

[demografx]

Relora is still working great for me.

Very encouraging, Tarkington. Thanks for posting!

[tarkington]

Thanks Limejuice for testing Relora.  How many times per day do you take Relora?

[demografx]

RESEARCH SOURCE FOR SUPPLEMENTS (and Rx meds)

According to my pharmacist-lawyer friend, www.pdrhealth.com is a good, credible source for Rx drugs AND herbal medicine and supplements, like Fenugreek, which is shown below. He advises to always check for interaction effects of herbals/supplements with other meds/supplements you're taking. Your pharmacist can check for those interaction effects, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

Fenugreek example
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/altmed/altmed-mono.aspx?contentFileName=ame0071.xml&contentName=Fenugreek&contentId=234

[John21 (OP)]

Limejuice,
Does your insomnia problem happen specifically post-sex, or is it a chronic condition that becomes worse with POIS?

[Limejuice]

...released twice to ensure no placebo effect...

all in the name of science! []

Thanks much for posting, Limejuice!

Thanks Limejuice for testing Relora.  How many times per day do you take Relora?

I've taken 250 MGs three times per day for a total of 750 MGs (that is the recommended dosage according to the bottle).  Perhaps a higher dosage would reduce the affects even more.  How does that compare to your dosage?

Limejuice,
Does your insomnia problem happen specifically post-sex, or is it a chronic condition that becomes worse with POIS?

John - I've always been a light sleeper but after release it's extreme.  Its funny because after release I'll feel tired all day but when bedtime comes I'm wide awake (specifically when closing my eyes).  The insomnia will decrease at the same rate of the other symptoms, usually after 4 days.  I know this sounds bazzar but its true.

[John21 (OP)]

Ok thanks I was just curious. My insomnia is chronic early morning waking with difficulty getting back to sleep, it is not affected directly by sex. My suspicion is that it arose in part because of the extreme stress of dealing with severe POIS for so many years.

By the way people, fenugreek is most likely available for sale at your local Indian grocery, in different forms: seeds (to grind), preground, etc. This method might not be a precise way to measure how much you are consuming, but if the stuff works for you and you want to make take it routinely it might save you money.

[girlwind]

Ok thanks I was just curious. My insomnia is chronic early morning waking with difficulty getting back to sleep, it is not affected directly by sex. My suspicion is that it arose in part because of the extreme stress of dealing with severe POIS for so many years.

I have the same kind of insomnia--waking up btwn 3-5 am, and not being able to get back to sleep.
It's common among those with CFS, and has something to do with a hypothalmic/adrenal imbalance.
I have found L-tryptophan in combination with magnesium and to be my most effective remedy for this.

[girlwind]

Relora is still working great for me.

I've tried Relora this week and it does nothing for me. I can't even feel it.

[tarkington]

I take 750 mg per day.  I sleep fine.  It sounds like everyone has their own cure.  I am not sure why it works for some and not others.  All I know is that it is worth the try.

I wasn't able to sleep when I used to have an orgasm before I went to bed.  After I started taking Relora I sleep fine when I have an orgasm and when I dont.

[acronym]

RE: Girlwind - sleep post
I also have had the same problem for years with being a light sleeper. Sleep issues have alternated from having difficulty falling to sleep when I was younger to later also having the problem of waking up btwn 3-5 am, and not being able to get back to sleep. I had sleep study done (instigated due to low GH/IGF) and it showed I hit all 4 sleep stages but with many wake ups in the 3-6am range. Supplements that help me in various configurations are : Valerian herb, plus also those other sleepy time herbs like hops + passionflower are okay, decent dose of chelated magnesium + calcium, melatonin, and the drug Surmontil very low dose - is great for positive dreams, and Baclofen. L-tryptophan was also pretty good, but is harder + more expensive to get thanks to pharmaceutical coys + AMA pressure on the govt that make an essential amino acid a regulated.

RE : Relora
In relation to Tarkington's post on Relora for relief from POIS and this treatment for stressed and anxious relief. I have found over the years that stress reduction helped my POIS to a reasonable extent. More so when I was younger, post POIS, my stress and anxiousness levels would rocket up, so dealing with this helped to ameliorate symptoms. There were periods when I took high dose Ca + Mg + also relaxation herbs + mega Vit-B, L-theanine, Tryptophan, relaxation CDs, etc. and my CFS/POIS was not as bad.  Beta-Blockers never made any difference for me however. Downside of this higher does regime was that it made it difficult to study or to do well in the gym or be aroused. When I subsequently had a girlfriend and backed off a bit on this + also increased frequency of orgasm, my stress + anxiety levels soon returned with a vengeance. I can relate to recent post by someone where they said their health would steadily improve over the weeks as they went without orgasm, but as soon as they had one they were soon back in POIS territory.

One of the blood tests I have is for homocysteine. I have quite high levels and am having hard time getting it to come down. I gather it’s tied in with stress levels, and is somewhat of a biochemical marker for aging. I also read med publications that link homocysteine with Nitric Oxide. When NO is high homocysteine is low and vice versa. Not sure if it has implications for POIS but just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else has had theirs measured.

Because increase in my level of stress is a major symptom for me with regards to POIS I had made the connection to Cortisol years ago as well. I have had 1 or 2 24 hr urinary cortisol pathology tests and I showed up as being normal, so it's a shame I cannot make a solid connection there. I remember someone making the comment in this forum that sex is good for the immune system, but I remember also reading where increased frequency of sex was in fact immunosuppressive. I think it was at the level of greater than 4 times a week, and they determined this by measuring the subject’s level of cortisol.

[girlwind]

Thanks Acronym for all your input re: sleep and insomnia remedies. I think that in my case there is sometimes
a histamine reaction (to pollen, mold, chemicals, etc) that affects my sleep as well. At those times anti-oxidants like
grapeseed extract or pycnogel can be helpful.  Or that really strong herbal anti-inflammatory herb mix--Zyflamend.
I've had many causes to that 3-5 am insomnia cycle (infections, allergies, stress reactions, POIS, toxic exposures),
but the symptoms of restlessness and frontal brain agitation are always the same. The remedy in each case is different
though, which can make it tricky to find the relief. There have been a few times that I've resorted to Benadryl, and it
worked, but gave me a rebound effect later, where all my symptoms worsened.

L-Tryptophan is the most consistently helpful for my insomnia, and I've had no problem finding it. I buy it from the
Vitamin Shoppe. (And btw it's on sale now for about $15--for 60 caps, so I've stocked up!)

[demografx]

IMPORTANT: OXYTOCIN AND RELORA - PLEASE READ!

From my pharmacy-lawyer friend:

OXYTOCIN

"Oxytocin is a prescription drug and very dangerous if used incorrectly. It is used primarily in obstetrics to induce labor and can precipitate abortion. DO NOT TAKE THIS DRUG.  It can also cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Deadly combo if used with Viagra."

RELORA

"Relora is a plant extract. Because the actual active ingredients are not discernible, there's no way to know what the interactions with other drugs might be. Therefore, I would recommend not taking it with Rx drugs,or with OTC drugs either.

This is what the manufacturer says: [Note the elevation in BP]

'side effects also include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure.'  "

[Chewbacca]

RE: Demografx..Oxytcin...Relora

I remember reading somewhere...I think it was on the "reuniting sex" website that girlwind mentioned in an earlier post, that oxytocin cannot get into the Central nervous system(post pituitary gland) either orally or through the blood stream because of the blood brain barrier. I think nasal sprays are the only exception. However, taking fenugreek is not like taking oxytocin. fenugreek is an oxytocin synergist. Meaning it causes your body to produce more oxytocin, it does not supply oxytocin. The mechanism through which it is believed that fenugreek increases levels of oxytocin is a steroidal saponin called neotigogenin. I would never take oxytocin directly, even in a nasal spray(there have been no studies done on POIS and oxytocin!)Having said all that, I still don't think RX drugs are good to mix with fenugreek.

The active ingredients in Relora are Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense. Not sure how these interact with RX meds, but probably better to be careful as well as demografx suggests.

Other possible oxytocin synergists I've read about are: red raspberry leaves, cotton wood bark, Blue Cohosh and a few others. fenugreek is just one!

[Limejuice]

Thanks for the information!  Nice to know what were putting into our bodies.

[girlwind]

IMPORTANT: OXYTOCIN AND RELORA - PLEASE READ!

From my pharmacy-lawyer friend:

OXYTOCIN

"Oxytocin is a prescription drug and very dangerous if used incorrectly. It is used primarily in obstetrics to induce labor and can precipitate abortion. DO NOT TAKE THIS DRUG.  It can also cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Deadly combo if used with Viagra."

Oxytocin may be dangerous, but it is quickly becoming the new rage with researchers as a
"CURE" for shyness.  Check out this article in the London Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article4187791.ece

[demografx]

...I would never take oxytocin directly, even in a nasal spray...

Thanks, Chew, that was the main concern!

[longwalkhome]

I'm afraid I have to report a major setback with Fenugreek  [:-[]. I was okay twice while I've been taking it, with only a few minor problems (as I said in my last post). But the third time around POIS came back in full swing, and work has been hell today. This is disheartening to say the least. I will use up the bottle of Fenugreek pills that I bought and see if this was an exceptional experience, but right now I'm a little skeptical about its effects.

How do you explain your condition to your family and co-workers? For me it would be just too big an embarassment to tell them the truth ...