Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2000 on: 17/11/2008 15:53:53 »
I just wanted to update everyone on my status.  I have now finished my first bottle of Relora (90 tablets).  So with three a day that makes one month.  During that time I know I have not had noticable POIS symptoms.  I have had an orgasm at least 15 times that I can think of.  Could the placebo effect still be considered?

The Relora seems to be fine. I think the placebo effect is in the 15 orgasms.

[;D] [;D] [;D]

« Last Edit: 17/11/2008 16:58:17 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2001 on: 17/11/2008 16:54:40 »
B_Jim, I put less sugar in my coffee this morning [:D]

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2002 on: 17/11/2008 21:06:24 »
And coffe is another eenemy for me  [;D]

There is a coffee substitute called Teeccino, which my acupuncturist sells to help people kick the caffeine
habit. I've never been a coffee drinker (allergic to it), but this stuff tastes good. It does have some dates and
figs to sweeten it, but no dextrose sugars. It brews like coffee and comes in several flavors. Hazelnut is the
one I've used.  http://www.teeccino.com/

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2003 on: 17/11/2008 21:50:49 »
I once ordered a sample pack of Teeccino... I didn't like it at all, it's nothing like coffee. I switched to decaf.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2004 on: 17/11/2008 23:54:41 »
I have never had any POIS outside of orgasm. 

I just wanted to update everyone on my status.  I have now finished my first bottle of Relora (90 tablets).  So with three a day that makes one month.  During that time I know I have not had noticable POIS symptoms.  I have had an orgasm at least 15 times that I can think of.  Could the placebo effect still be considered?

Tarkington do you use relora during pois or out of it and did it make you feel sleepy. If it did, did the sedative aspect of it reduce after continuous use.  I have only used about five pills.
I haven't gotten a chance to use it for a long period without Pois kicking in.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2005 on: 18/11/2008 01:15:50 »
For those of you who wish to keep records of your trials and symptoms and wish to do so on the computer, I recommend "Alpha Journal". I have downloaded and sampled various software journals and I liked this one the best and today I purchased it. It allows you to easily flip through entries and automatically saves your work. It also has a 30 day trial period. If anyone knows of a better one let us know, but I'm liking this one.

http://www.alpharealms.com/journal/index.htm


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2006 on: 18/11/2008 02:45:51 »
For those of you who wish to keep records of your trials and symptoms and wish to do so on the computer, I recommend "Alpha Journal". I have downloaded and sampled various software journals and I liked this one the best and today I purchased it. It allows you to easily flip through entries and automatically saves your work. It also has a 30 day trial period. If anyone knows of a better one let us know, but I'm liking this one.
http://www.alpharealms.com/journal/index.htm

Thanks, John, it looks very good. Appreciate your posting it for everyone.

John, since you are the Very First Member of this forum, people here might be interested to know what changes you've seen and experienced here as we approach the 2nd Year anniversary of your post! (February 18, 2007)
« Last Edit: 18/11/2008 02:51:37 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2007 on: 18/11/2008 02:50:19 »
TEECCINO

I loved it. Till the novelty of drinking dates and figs wore off. Besides I could never stay away too long from that Caffeinated Hold on my life...sigh...  [:I]
« Last Edit: 18/11/2008 02:54:19 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2008 on: 18/11/2008 02:57:10 »
And coffe is another eenemy for me  [;D]
Maybe sugar is not bad for you.  [:)]
I do not want to generalize my case for the entire board.

I was just being silly, B_Jim. But seriously, you did influence me to cut the sugar down a little bit at least. I do crash from it.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2009 on: 18/11/2008 03:07:08 »
John, since you are the Very First Member of this forum, people here might be interested to know what changes you've seen and experienced here as we approach the 2nd Year anniversary of your post! (February 18, 2007)

B_Jim, you are the 2nd Member of this forum, posting on June 6, 2007. It would be great to also hear your historical perspective as we approach the Two Year Mark!

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2010 on: 18/11/2008 03:13:15 »
TEECCINO

I loved it. Till the novelty of drinking dates and figs wore off. Besides I could never stay away too long from that Caffeinated Hold on my life...sigh...  [:I]

I'm glad I can't drink coffee. It sounds like heroin, especially the way some coffee drinkers describe their devotion to it.
If something had a "Caffeinated Hold" on my life, I would be inclined to kick it's butt to the curb.  [;)] [:D]

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2011 on: 18/11/2008 05:13:27 »
Same here.

I road a rollercoaster last year and after the ride finished I felt POIS symptoms...weird.  It was like I was on a high during the ride (all thoughs sensations going fast upside-down) and after it was a low.



Go go fenugreek at the amusement park? [:)]

I think I had POIS symptoms after a roller coaster ride once, but then again my girlfriend was sitting on my lap [:)]

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2012 on: 18/11/2008 05:30:14 »
Thanks John for the software. I'll try this.

Girlwind, it's a good thing you're posting about this coffee substitute: I took a similar product for three months every morning and I was incredibly more tired than usual! As soon as I stopped I started to feel better. It contains chicory :
http://www.botanical-online.com/medicinalsachicoriaangles.htm
Toxicity
This plant should not be used by those people who present tendency to produce kidney stones, since the root is rich in oxalates. In the same way, people who have low blood pressure or with tendency to suffer anemias should refrain from eating it. It musn't be used with gastroduodenal ulcers.

I don't know if it was because of chicory/BP but definitely this product was causing fatigue in my case.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2013 on: 18/11/2008 10:32:53 »
Demografx, I am still as amazed that so many people found the site merely be searching for a solution. I'm sure new people will keep popping in...it must be daunting when someone finds the forum now, there is so much to read! I am grateful to everyone who has contributed.

I am personally much better off now than 2 years ago, due to my NEs being POIS free as of late.
« Last Edit: 18/11/2008 11:20:43 by John21 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2014 on: 19/11/2008 00:15:44 »
I wish you success with the tests. I'm surprised they have accepted. You'll have plenty of time to recover before the holidays !

Martin, I am seeing the university endocrinologist as an individual patient (anyone can go). Not as part of any research study. But it might also be a good way to find out if there is a possibility for them to do POIS research eventually.
« Last Edit: 19/11/2008 00:18:00 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2015 on: 19/11/2008 00:23:51 »
Demografx, I am still as amazed that so many people found the site merely be searching for a solution. I'm sure new people will keep popping in...it must be daunting when someone finds the forum now, there is so much to read! I am grateful to everyone who has contributed.

I am personally much better off now than 2 years ago, due to my NEs being POIS free as of late.

John, I'm much better off, too, than two years ago when you started off this forum. If it weren't for this forum, I might not have been aware enough to see the connection between Levitra and POIS. I might have just thought I was simply improving with age.

ps - I am amazed too at how many people find us. But then again, POIS can be a very desperate condition. Especially when most of the world has no clue what we're going through!

POIS can be a living hell.
« Last Edit: 19/11/2008 17:19:17 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2016 on: 19/11/2008 00:29:16 »
Historical perspective for the last 2 years ?
When i joined the forum i was in moderate depression. I tried sport and daylight exposure without success. St John's Wort quickly removed my depression.
In May, a friend said to me he found a diet against POIS symptoms.
- I seriously start it in July and i have first results. For the first time i understand that diarrheas were caused by sugar and not "stress" .
- In August, I started to have less hypoglycemias.
- September , i start to eat only proteins after orgasm and my POIS symptoms start to decrease.

I think POIS may have multiple causes. If someone think his POIS is linked to adrenal glands, he should avoid caffeine and try to controle glycemia (reduce sugar and high GI food). I don't think it's effective to follow the adrenal fatigue's diet recommanded by naturopaths/nutritionists without removed these stressors in a first time. And i think modern medicine makes a major mistake by underestimating physical stressors as sugar or others one. All stressors are not psychological.

B_Jim, thank you for all your terrific contributions here. I hope coffee is not contributing heavily to my POIS. If it is, I guess I must accept it. Or else!

Because of your experience, I am paying much closer attention to protein vs. Carbohydrates.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2017 on: 19/11/2008 00:41:52 »
I think I had POIS symptoms after a roller coaster ride once, but then again my girlfriend was sitting on my lap [:)]

Now this requires some serious science: take a roller coaster ride again with said female removed. If symptoms persist, try bumper cars or boat rides!
« Last Edit: 19/11/2008 00:52:55 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2018 on: 19/11/2008 00:51:45 »
Hi Counterpoints (or whoever else has access to the questionnaire form),

I just filled out the form at http://pois.olympe-network.com/.  However, I just noticed that I made some errors in doing so.  Is there a way for me to edit my responses?  Or, if I need to fill it out again, would someone be able to delete my first version for me afterwards?
Thanks!

Guthrie, how have you been feeling lately?

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2019 on: 19/11/2008 01:40:17 »
Hey Demografx: I found this article on the Natural News website.
It has a long list of health experts commenting on caffeine's detrimental effects on the adrenals.   [xx(]
http://www.naturalnews.com/012352.html

The hidden dangers of caffeine: How coffee causes exhaustion, fatigue and addiction
"After prolonged "caffeinism," your body enters a state of adrenal exhaustion. Your caffeine consumption has simply
pushed your adrenal glands so much that they've burned out. Ralph T. Golan, ND, describes this unfortunate state in
his book, Herbal Defense: "Caffeine forces your glands to secrete when they don't have much left to give, and they
have to keep digging deeper and deeper, making you more and more tired over time. And over the years, it takes
more and more coffee to get the same result. Some people reach the point of drinking half a dozen or more cups of
coffee to get the same result and it's barely keeping them awake. That's severe adrenal depletion."

In other words, caffeine affects your body just like any drug. You start taking it slowly, but as your body develops a
tolerance to it, you need more and more to feel the same effects. Eventually, your body reaches a point where it can't
be without it; otherwise, you will start to experience withdrawal symptoms."

« Last Edit: 19/11/2008 01:51:23 by girlwind »

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2020 on: 19/11/2008 07:25:17 »
I think I had POIS symptoms after a roller coaster ride once, but then again my girlfriend was sitting on my lap [:)]

Now this requires some serious science: take a roller coaster ride again with said female removed. If symptoms persist, try bumper cars or boat rides!

I was only kidding about that.  I really don't recall

SeriouslY though I did experience a similar stiffness and pain after taking a calicium supplement.  I am beginning to think that my symptoms might be caused by a lack of blood flow through capilaries( either a costriction or blockage).  Calcium through food in it's natural method delivery won't cause a problem but ingestion of bone meal or coral calcium suplements causes severe prolems
 Since others have found relief through Levitra which is used to treat ED and I have used an herbal mixture of Maca
(seems most effective) Yohimbe and Horney Goat Weed over the last 3 weeks that has been more successful than anything I have tried in the last 30 years.  When I
Also I mentioned alcohol earlier having a similar effect to POIS.  Alcohol causes constriction of blood vessels.
When I have had injuries having an orgasm will seem to slow  or halt the healing process or even worsen it.    
Perhaps what causes muscle stiffness in some by reducing the supply to muscles results in a reduced flow to the brain causing brain fog and dizziness in others?
Also some people experience this by acending too quickly in high altiudes.
« Last Edit: 19/11/2008 07:42:02 by Finally »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2021 on: 19/11/2008 17:04:27 »
Girlwind, thanks for the dead-smiley and the million reasons caffeine's bad for you. You've heard your friends say it can have a heroin-intensity hold on people. I've given up a million times. But the Caffeine Monster sneaks into my bedroom at night and forces me to make a deal with the devil, so what can I do? I would replace it with good sex, but we all know where THAT leads <wink>.

I'm just not truly ready yet to quit, 3 physicians' pleas notwithstanding. But seriously, I do appreciate your concern.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2022 on: 19/11/2008 17:08:40 »
...I have used an herbal mixture of Maca (seems most effective) Yohimbe and Horney Goat Weed over the last 3 weeks that has been more successful than anything I have tried in the last 30 years...

Finally...thank you.

I hate to be a party pooper, but the following article talks about some serious risks and side effects of Maca and Yohimbe and advises to
see a medical professional
when taking them:

http://www.myfittribe.com/articles/20080716/maca-and-yohimbe.html

Also please see the following article's discussion on "Safety" re. Horny Goat Weed:

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/HornyGoatWeed.htm

Since these plants work similarly to Levitra and other ED drugs, it's not surprising that they carry risk as well!

It seems that several of us here respond well to this group of agents and with more research - and caution - we might find some answers to POIS!

We have had one theory evolve from this: that these agents increase Nitrous Oxide, and that NO is somehow implicated in POIS. An intriguing part of their action as it relates to POIS is that they increase sexual desire and potency. Do they somehow "replace" what POIS "takes away"? Are Levitra and the agents discussed above only helpful to older men? Could there be a relationship to Fenugreek and Relora which affect Cortisol, which is implicated in sexual function?
« Last Edit: 19/11/2008 18:49:18 by demografx »

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Offline Porke

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2023 on: 19/11/2008 18:41:31 »
I just want to respond to to the Fenugreek comment some people made.

I went and bought some this week, and tried it this weekend. Took one friday night and one on saturday morning after 'some action' :P

I did feel much better than I usually do. Normally i feel very drained, with an almost headachy feel inside my head for a day or two after.. Very down generally. This time i did not have any strange feeling in my head, and did not feel as 'drained'. I wasnt bouncing off the walls, but I could tell that I was doing much much better than usual. By sunday, i felt 100% - so this stuff def helps - FOR ME. I bought Solgar (very expensive - but a top quality product) as most other brands are so hit and miss with this sort of thing.

Ill def keep experimenting with it. I believe a 'cure' is out there. I don't think im necessarily sick, just that I get depleted from whatever hormone or chemical after sex. Whether it be an adrenal or brain issue, I think I just need to find that one herb or supplement that's going to replenish me quicker than I can by myself.

Other supplements that have helped me out too is your typical flu medication (Vitamin C, synephedrine, asprin, antihistamine) those combo fizzys. They make me feel better, and I might take one every once in a while.




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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2024 on: 19/11/2008 18:42:54 »
Finally...thank you.

I hate to be a party pooper, but the following article talks about some serious risks and side effects of Maca and Yohimbe and advises to
see a medical professional
when taking them:

http://www.myfittribe.com/articles/20080716/maca-and-yohimbe.html

MACA IS NOT SO BAD, YOHIMBE MORE RISKY
Excerpts from the article Demografx posted

"Maca is a Peruvian plant with a history of consumption for warriors, livestock, and Peruvians. The reason maca is being
brought up in the same conversation as sex is that it has been shown to increase libido and semen quality. However, its
important to note that a diet high in maca and low in iodine has been associated with high rates of goiter. In rats, it has
been shown to enlarge prostate glands. However, maca is consumed in many parts of the world as a dietary staple with
minimal risks.

Yohimbe, on the other hand, poses a far more serious risk. Its promoted as a natural aphrodisiac and alternate option to
medications such as Viagra. Yohimbe relaxes and dilates blood vessels in the penis, allowing enhanced blood flow and
erection. While research has shown small benefits for men with erectile dysfunction of organic origins, the health risks
outweigh the advantages. Yohimbe has been linked to seizures, kidney failure, dizziness, nausea, insomnia, high blood
pressure, anxiety, and rapid heartbeat."


I have taken Maca on and off for a few years, and as long as I stay at or below the recommended dosage on the bottle,
it works well to help me recuperate energy after over-exertion. Also, there is some evidence that it can actually help women
balance their hormones when they get peri-menopausal. Interesting how they note that it's important that maca must be
kept in balance with getting enough IODINE in your diet. Don't I know that  one!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2025 on: 19/11/2008 19:12:36 »
I just want to respond to to the Fenugreek comment some people made.

I went and bought some this week, and tried it this weekend. Took one friday night and one on saturday morning after 'some action' :P

I did feel much better than I usually do. Normally i feel very drained, with an almost headachy feel inside my head for a day or two after.. Very down generally. This time i did not have any strange feeling in my head, and did not feel as 'drained'. I wasnt bouncing off the walls, but I could tell that I was doing much much better than usual. By sunday, i felt 100% - so this stuff def helps - FOR ME. I bought Solgar (very expensive - but a top quality product) as most other brands are so hit and miss with this sort of thing.

Ill def keep experimenting with it. I believe a 'cure' is out there. I don't think im necessarily sick, just that I get depleted from whatever hormone or chemical after sex. Whether it be an adrenal or brain issue, I think I just need to find that one herb or supplement that's going to replenish me quicker than I can by myself.

Other supplements that have helped me out too is your typical flu medication (Vitamin C, synephedrine, asprin, antihistamine) those combo fizzys. They make me feel better, and I might take one every once in a while.

Terrific post, Porke, I really appreciate it.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2026 on: 19/11/2008 19:27:56 »
MACA IS NOT SO BAD, YOHIMBE MORE RISKY

Girlwind, thanks for clarifying!
« Last Edit: 19/11/2008 19:46:02 by demografx »

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Offline Andreas_F

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2027 on: 20/11/2008 00:54:55 »
Hi Everyone. My name is Andreas and I just want to say how relieved and thankful I am for such a good turn of fate that has led so many people with with this condition to come together to talk about it. 

I am a 24 year old healthy male with no health problems whatsoever.  I am a personal trainer at the moment and do a good 10 hours of varied exercise a week, don't drink or smoke and have a very strict diet ( With regard to proper vitamins, minerals; eating carbohydrates and proteins at the correct intervals in the correct proportions relative to my body weight etc etc).  As yet I have suffered no ill health other than mumps as a child.
5 years ago I noticed that orgasms were better after periods of abstinence of a few days and progressively so after periods of abstinence of up to a month. After a year or so I noticed a general state of well being after the 4+ day point and at the 28 day mark a fantastic level of mental clarity and confidence.  That's when I started to notice my symptoms.  Like so many others the 2 most exaggerated and debilitating symptoms were the 4 day confusion/lack of concentration ( as an extra note I tend to repeat a word or song in my head repeatedly and annoyingly during this time) and of course the constant desire to sleep even though no amount of sleep is enough.

I was so happy to hear that I was not alone and there was hope I simply had to tell you guys ( this is my first forum post by the way).

Although my level of physical activity means that I can deal with the physical symptoms quite easily ( my sleepiness is only in the morning when I wake up) it's the cognitive impairments that are my biggest problem.
For me I get a strong sense of disassociation with the world, lack of ability ( that causes a complex) to socialise and connect with peers, friends and colleagues; a complete lack of ability to focus on a point ( I deviate horribly and cannot return to a previous train of thought) as well as an inability to see a broad perspective of things ( I use  my chess playing as an analogy with me only concentrating on small battles taking place on a portion of the board as opposed to considering the board as a whole) and a lack of deliberate direction.  Most of these happen internally but for me the most horrifyingly outwardly noticeable symptom is stuttering and inability to pronounce words or construct sentences verbally properly (especially when under stress) for at least 2-3 weeks.  All of these symptoms decline and eventually disappear in the fourth week of abstinence.

Conversely, I thought I would add that my writing vocabulary (speed at which I find the exact word I'm looking for) and Long term memory are vastly better for 1-2 weeks immediately post orgasm.

I have similarly approached doctors and been greeted with looks that contain mixtures of mild bemusement and a lot of "hmm, I've never heard of that before..."s followed by the usual booklet on "Anxiety & Stress Management".

I too suffer the symptoms after conscious or sleeping orgasms.

Like so many others abstinence at my age killed many relationships.  There was simply no way I could put it so they were comfortable.  Two years ago I managed to salvage a love life (and sex life) by discovering Novocaine and extra thick condoms.

I have only managed to read through a few pages of thread tonight but I have to say I was visibly ecstatic when I saw positive posts in the last few threads above.
My lifestyle is as good as practicably possible and I have no major psychological issues so I am (like many of you are) convinced it is hormonal and looking forward to reading what success you guys have had with different drugs.

Again a big big thanks to he first posters for starting the thread and maybe we'll see it become the best love life saviour since Viagra!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2028 on: 20/11/2008 01:16:13 »
Andreas, welcome! Funny you mention Viagra as a "love life savior"...Levitra (a competing brand) has been my "POIS life savior". One other individual here has also reported positively about Levitra. But please don't experiment without a physician, especially at your age. And I assume you've read about Relora, Fenugreek, garlic, etc., which hold out much promise for future "POIS cocktails" in my opinion. Again, please read the cautions too.

There is a POIS video I'm sure you will enjoy (popcorn is optional), created by Girlwind:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

Counterpoints has also created a questionnaire for outside researchers' and other forum listmembers' use:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

This is a very friendly group because we have all suffered the same "bemused" blank stares by medical "professionals" - not to mention the agony of POIS symptoms.

I look forward to reading more about you.
« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 01:20:28 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2029 on: 20/11/2008 01:38:14 »


               LOCAL POIS DEALER!
          Fenugreek, Relora, Maca, Yohimbe
              No Appointment Necessary!
                1-800-POISonOUS


                THANKSGIVING SPECIAL!
                Horny Goat Weed
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« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 03:53:21 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2030 on: 20/11/2008 01:55:38 »
IMPORTANT UPDATE:

High cortisol, or possibly wild cortisol fluctuations, are extremely plausible explanations for many cases of POIS on this forum.
1) Imre1 was helped with beta blockers -- beta blockers lower cortisol.
2) Our symptoms -- lack of concentration, social anxiety, lack of creativity, etc. -- are characteristic of high cortisol.
3) Several people on this forum have been substantially helped with cortisol-lowering supplements. (relora, and fenugreek?).
4) Sugary diets raise cortisol.  Some people have been helped with high protein, low sugar diets.  (e.g. B_Jim).

Two weeks ago, I took a PM cortisol test, and my levels were noticeably high: ~425nmol/L, vs the 50-300 nmol/L reference.
Last week, I took ACTH, AM cortisol and PM cortisol tests. The AM cortisol test was flagged (about 750 nmol/L. morning ref has a max of about 650 nmol/L). ACTH was on the upper end of normal (taken in the morning).  This time, the PM cortisol test was in the upper end of the reference (~280 nmol/L).  I am going back for further testing.

The fact that my cortisol was suppressed in the evening is good in the sense that it
1) It is unlikely I have Cushing's
2) My higher levels are probably not caused by a tumor leaking cortisol.

However, my levels are high.  This can be problematic, and is the biggest definitive clue I've had in explaining my symptoms.  I encourage everyone to get these harmless blood tests, in addition to the 24 hr urinary cortisol test.  I suggest taking these while feeling symptomatic, and possibly getting a repeat test -- perhaps one shortly after orgasm (hours), and one a day or two afterwards.  If you get the AM, try to also get the PM test.  But if you only get one test, make it AM cortisol, since physicians will take it more seriously.  You will probably need to take the test prior to 10 AM (possibly before 9 AM).

Best regards.
« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 02:04:03 by Counterpoints »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2031 on: 20/11/2008 02:01:43 »
HEY DEMO--WHO NEEDS A DEALER or A DOCTOR. MAYBE HE HAS THE ANSWER TO POIS!


[attachment=5309][

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Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2032 on: 20/11/2008 02:27:13 »
RE: Finally

The Maca and yohimbe don't really strike me as anything special......But what does strike me as noteworthy is the horny goat weed. Maybe about a month ago a forum member here(sorry I can't remember who it was) mentioned an article they saw on yahoo! about horny goat weed. The Article stated that Italian researchers found a PDE-5 inhibitory effect from horny goats weed. Viagra, Levita, and cialis are PDE-5 inhibitors. Consequently, they are going to make a engineered version of the plant and sell it as an herbal viagra that is just as effective as the real thing.

What interests me is that, like horny Goat Weed, Levitra is a PDE-5 inhibitor. As demografx will tell you, this has been his own personal cure(at least it reduced his symptoms 50-75%). PDE-5 inhibitors increase oxytocin levels during orgasms when taken before sexual stimulation. Oxytocin release during orgasm and during the preorgasm phase lowers cortisol levels, lowers prolactin and increases dopamine(as I can remember it anyway).

i guess what I'm trying to say is that horny goat weed seems worthy of further investigation as Finally has had success with it and since it's mechanism of action seems to be congruent to the mechanism of action for levitra....a product that has worked for two forum members.

Finally....what brand of Horny Goat Weed are you using....what dose?

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Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2033 on: 20/11/2008 02:37:36 »
Also, for any of you interested in traditional chinese medicine.... here is a link to a website that tells how Horny Goat Weed is used(it's chinese name is yin yang hua. Not surprisingly....it used for kidey and liver deficencies. A condition mentioned in TCM i belive is linked with POIS.

newbielink:http://alternativehealing.org/xian_ling_pi.htm [nonactive]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2034 on: 20/11/2008 02:56:27 »
...Maybe about a month ago a forum member here(sorry I can't remember who it was) mentioned an article they saw on yahoo! about horny goat weed. The Article stated that Italian researchers found a PDE-5 inhibitory effect from horny goats weed. Viagra, Levita, and cialis are PDE-5 inhibitors. Consequently, they are going to make an engineered version of the plant and sell it as an herbal viagra that is just as effective as the real thing.

Chewbacca, maybe the post you mention above was the one I posted below?

INTERESTING (and humorous) NOTE FROM MY PHARMACOLOGY-LAWYER FRIEND

...there is a natural product which is touted to be a natural Viagra. I'm not making the name up.  Italian scientists have extracted the active ingredient and claim that in clinical trials it is as effective as Viagra, et al. It is also, allegedly, an herb which is effective for treating artherosclerosis and allergies. It's called Horny Goat Weed [translation from the Chinese]. There was an article about the Italian clinical trials on Yahoo last week. The active ingredient does have a similar effect to the PDE5 inhibitors.

Here is one of the articles:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/123010.php
« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 03:31:40 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2035 on: 20/11/2008 03:21:53 »
HEY DEMO--WHO NEEDS A DEALER or A DOCTOR. MAYBE HE HAS THE ANSWER TO POIS!

WHICH doctor are you referring to? [;D]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2036 on: 20/11/2008 03:27:41 »
IMPORTANT UPDATE:

High cortisol, or possibly wild cortisol fluctuations, are extremely plausible explanations for many cases of POIS on this forum...
...Our symptoms -- lack of concentration, social anxiety, lack of creativity, etc. -- are characteristic of high cortisol...

Counterpoints, very interesting. I think that extreme fatigue/exhaustion is a leading POIS symptom. Is that a high cortisol symptom? If not, perhaps a "cocktail" of cortisol+fatigue-attack could be a curative hypothesis?
« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 03:29:35 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2037 on: 20/11/2008 04:59:31 »
POIS - DUALITY IN TREATMENTS :
Did you notice a duality in treatments for POIS ?

1)Some are most often aphrodisiacs (not all) and help right after orgasm.
For example (ginseng, horny goat, meat, low sugar diet, high protein diet, B6, E, phosphorus, zinc, Levitra etc...)

2)On an other side other treatments are helping to stay sexually abstinent (antiandrogen FLUTAMIDE prescribed by Dr Waldinger, lettuce, hops, lotus ?, heavy work/long physical exercise, SSRI, etc...)

Treatments from Category 2 are the best for me, I feel the cure is more complete.

I'm not sure but I think that treatments from category 1 are a temporary cure for pois, and are never FULLY effective and will probably finish to cause more problems.

(I don't know where to put garlic,fenugreek,relora in this)

About beta-blockers, in which category do you place them?
I'd say 2 because Imre said his desire was completely suppressed on it and he was happy for this. Is it possible that beta-blockers are only effective if you're sexually abstinent?
If it's true maybe they are not touching the deficiency we all feel after orgasm.

Quote
It is still possible that beta blockers cause depression in some cases, cautions psychiatrist Stuart C. Yudofsky of Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. Beta blockers are known to affect serotonin, a brain chemical that may be associated with depression, he says.
It's written on internet that beta-blockers are sometimes causing depression. This disease is frequently coming with high levels of cortisol. To be sure I'd make the cortisol test without taking them.

« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 05:12:35 by martin88 »

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2038 on: 20/11/2008 06:30:46 »


Finally....what brand of Horny Goat Weed are you using....what dose?

Horney Goat Weed
Planetary Herbals
600 mg tablets 1 AM 1 PM

Also Fenugreek( Natures Answers) 600 MG 3x day

Dhea Complete( Life Extension) 25mg Am & noon

Maca ( Parasdise Herbs)Maca root extract 7:1 250 mg 2-3 X day

Yohimbe bark extract(GAIA HERBS) liquid drops 250mg 3x day dilute in fruit juice

I purchase the Above from Life Extension (LEF.Org.?)

Restore (garden of Life)muscle and tissue Recovery
enzymes(Bromelain, Papain Protease) 2  275 mg tablets 3x day

Primal defense Ultra(Garden of life) 1 tablet 2-3  x Day

Fruits of life (garden of life) fruit concentrate 2/3 tsp 3x day mixed with  4 oz water and 4oz tonic water.

1200 - 1800 mg phenylalnine

400-600mg taurine  

I also use Sea Salt.

This is what I have taken with no real side effects. No large increase in libito as expected.  a lot still depends on a stimulus.  Erections are a little firmer and fuller.  My result were more for long term than immediate effects although I have only done one test so far.   

I am taking these for now. Hopefully I can taper soon to a maintenance level much lower.  I also am a large person so the dose/lb & effect would be greater on  a smaller person. Anyone should start small and gradually increase doses.  I was willing to take a risk but I wouldn't recomend anyone else doing it.      
I am not a big believer in the superiority of conventional practitioners.  I almost died from taking Vioxx for a knee injury. I ended up wandering around in a haze with dangerously low BP.  I survived by stumbling into a convenience store and downing energy drinks. I had severe chest pain for months after.
The pharmeceutical industry puts out articles trashing alternative medicine and tries to push for regulations that would require prescriptions for vitamins because they fear them.  Hospitals and drug companies are conglomerates intersted in a bottom line.  The old family doctor is almost extinct.  My mother died in a hospital because the epinephrine they gave in the ER wouldn't work because her dcoctor had upped the dose of high blood pressure medicine
I worked in medical research.  The labs are paid big bucks to get results for drugs. They get positive test results. If not there is always a paper shredder nearby.  The lack of oversight is a "joke".      

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Offline Andreas_F

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2039 on: 20/11/2008 10:16:01 »
Thanks for the welcome B_Jim and Demo, I feel fortunate to find so many posters who are attacking the problem with a logical and open minded approach.  I get a sense that there's no real panacea here but rather a good mix of remedies that need experimentation.  No need to worry though Demo, I have no intention of experimenting with any drug without proper medical supervision!
I haven't had time to read through the entire thread yet so I'm reluctant to ask any questions out of courtesy but I was wondering if testosterone levels had been abandoned as a possible cause and if so why?  I ask because I notice a proportional rise in libido to decline in my symptoms of POIS. Was I wrong to think of testosterone as the primary agent here?

Thanks again everyone.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2040 on: 20/11/2008 13:20:23 »
Hi Andreas, we've the same global view of pois.
It's not clear about testosterone. It hasn't been abandoned.
You can always make an advanced search in our forum only.
Search for this in google :
pois testosterone site:thenakedscientists.com/forum

B_Jim I agree with you for the big number of treatments.
In my post I was insisting on two types of opposites treatments:

Example:
Low carbs diet to raise libido after orgasm+
DHEA
Or
High carbs diet to destroy libido and stay sexually abstinent+
Antiandrogen Flutamine

This is important to specify (stay sexually abstinent or not) when we take a treatment, otherwise it may be not effective.
« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 13:28:26 by martin88 »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2041 on: 20/11/2008 15:28:53 »

Quote
It is still possible that beta blockers cause depression in some cases, cautions psychiatrist Stuart C. Yudofsky of Baylor
College of Medicine in Houston. Beta blockers are known to affect serotonin, a brain chemical that may be associated with
depression, he says.

It's written on internet that beta-blockers are sometimes causing depression. This disease is frequently coming with high
levels of cortisol. To be sure I'd make the cortisol test without taking them.

"There are certain drugs that are known to have an effect on thyroid function, including CAUSING hypothyroidism."
One of the drugs listed is Propranolol, a beta-blocker. from the book Living Well With Hypothyroidism by Mary Shomon
« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 15:42:21 by girlwind »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2042 on: 20/11/2008 15:40:01 »
I am not a big believer in the superiority of conventional practitioners.  I almost died from taking Vioxx for a knee injury. I ended up wandering
around in a haze with dangerously low BP.  I survived by stumbling into a convenience store and downing energy drinks. I had severe chest pain
for months after.
The pharmeceutical industry puts out articles trashing alternative medicine and tries to push for regulations that would require prescriptions for
vitamins because they fear them.  Hospitals and drug companies are conglomerates intersted in a bottom line.  The old family doctor is almost
extinct.  My mother died in a hospital because the epinephrine they gave in the ER wouldn't work because her dcoctor had upped the dose of high
blood pressure medicine
I worked in medical research.  The labs are paid big bucks to get results for drugs. They get positive test results. If not there is always a paper
shredder nearby.  The lack of oversight is a "joke".      

Thank you, Finally, for your input on this. I have a 90 year old friend who is a retired doctor, and who is disgusted with
the lack of real patient care these days, now that big bucks pharma industry and the insurance scam industry run the show.
As he puts it, "all the doctoring has gone out of being a doctor."
« Last Edit: 20/11/2008 15:57:28 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2043 on: 20/11/2008 18:21:51 »
Martin, which category do you put Levitra in? That's been a powerful remedy for at least two people here, myself included.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2044 on: 20/11/2008 18:46:58 »
Okay everyone, I have a question. For the past 6 weeks I've been fighting off a recurring sinus infection,
my energy has been down because of it, and my CFS has been worse because of it. I have had zero libido,
and zero interest in sex during this time.

So WHY is it, that when my energy has been clearly dragging and I'm in no mood for anymore draining of it,
have I managed to have three nocturnal orgasms all in the past month? My POIS has been generally better,
since I began the Ashwaganda and iodine for my thyroid problem, but the last orgasm was just too much for
me to handle right now. It added even more fatigue to this equation. So I don't get it.

Why would an orgasm happen when there is no desire for it and no reserves of energy to spare?  Isn't that
"counter-intuitive" for the body to pull off? Or do cold viruses stimulate the sex organs? It's bizarre....
Any ideas?    [???] [???]  [???]

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2045 on: 20/11/2008 20:40:15 »
Martin, which category do you put Levitra in? That's been a powerful remedy for at least two people here, myself included.
Category one since it doesn't push you to be sexually abstinent. I have no doubt that Levitra is powerful and effective for you. But you say it's only a 50-75% cure.
Avoiding orgasm promotes well being, and prevents you to have pois. But can we really say it's a cure for pois (since our disease is post-orgasmic!)

Martin, I am seeing the university endocrinologist as an individual patient (anyone can go). Not as part of any research study. But it might also be a good way to find out if there is a possibility for them to do POIS research eventually.
I understand that you'll probably have to find the boss there to ask how to initiate a research! Obviously anything we can try to be able to start something will be very welcome.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2046 on: 20/11/2008 21:20:13 »
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/06/990617072302.htm
The track we are following with cortisol seems like a very plausible path because this articles supports high cortisol level for short period affects memory functions.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2047 on: 20/11/2008 21:44:23 »
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080311182434.htm
another article on short term stress and how it affects memory.
And I guess everybody knows cortisol affects REM sleep.

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Offline Andreas_F

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2048 on: 20/11/2008 21:59:22 »
Hi Guys.

Just wanted to let you know that as part of a mass building phase I went through I incorporated a highly rated (amongst body builders mostly) package of various vitamins, minerals and herbs, aminos etc. (Please see attached list with dosages below).  The product's name is "Animal Pak" <- Correct spelling!  manufactured by Universal Nutrition.

 I took the product for about 4 months straight and the physical symptoms although still there were slightly less pronounced. Of course this could equally be attributed to the increased level of physical activity ( including a lot of weight lifting ) but that's not my point.  My point is that there was absolutely no noticeable improvement in any of the cognitive or emotional symptoms of POIS.
The one disappointment for me looking back is that Phosphatidylcholine is pouted as a pretty good cortisol inhibitor in gym circles and if this is true then either I need a more aggressive cortisol inhibitor or cortisol is not the primary cause of my symptoms.  Of course before anyone says it I need to actually get my levels checked before and during supplementation and I plan to in December when I go back into a mass building phase.

Anyway I hope it helps with the statistical side of the arguments here at least.

Regards

***************************************************************************************   

Ingredient Amount Per Serving   % DV


Calories   16   
Total Carbohydrates   1g   <1%*
Protein   3g   6%*
Vitamin A(as Acetate & 66% As -Carotene)   9900IU   198%
Vitamin C(as Ascorbic Acid)   1g   1,667%
Vitamin D(as Ergocalciferol)   680IU   170%
Vitamin E(as D-A-Tocopheryl Acetate)   300IU   1,000%
Thiamin(as Thiamin HCL)   76mg   5,067%
Riboflavin   76mg   4,471%
Niacin(as Niacinamide)   82mg   410%
Vitamin B6(as Pyridoxine HCL)   72mg   3,600%
Folic Acid   400mcg   100%
Vitamin B12(as Cyanocobalamin)   6mcg   100%
Biotin   300mcg   100%
Pantothenic Acid(as Calcium Pantothenate)   76mg   760%
Calcium(as Citrate, Carbonate)   2g   0%
Phosphorus(as Calcium Phosphate)   228mg   23%
Iodine(from Kelp)   150mcg   100%
Magnesium(as Oxide)   133mg   33%
Zinc(as Oxide)   30mg   200%
Selenium(as Selenite)   50mcg   71%
Copper(as Sulfate)   600mcg   30%
Manganese(as Sulfate)   11mcg   550%
Chromium(as Picolinate)   6mcg   5%
Potassium(as Sulfate)   200mg   6%
Amino Acid Blend   
Lysine(from Lactalbumin)   300mg   **
Methionine(from Lactalbumin)   500mg   **
Leucine(from Lactalbumin)   100mg   **
Valine(from Lactalbumin)   760mg   **
Threonine(from Lactalbumin)   48mg   **
Glutamic Acid(from Lactalbumin)   700mg   **
Phenylalanine(from Lactalbumin)   560mg   **
Arginine(as L-Arginine)   2g   **
Performance Optimizers   
Siberian Ginseng(Root)   2g   **
Oriental Ginseng(Root)   250mg   **
Smilax Officinalis(Root)   500mg   **
Protogen A(Thioctic Acid)   200mcg   **
Inosine(Hypoxanthine Riboside)   500mg   **
Pyridoxine-A-Ketoglutarate   200mg   **
Carnitine(as L-Carnitine)   25mg   **
Chromium Picolinate   50mcg   **
Coenzyme A   20mg   **
Coenzyme B12   10mg   **
Phosphatidylcholine   200mg   **
Para-Aminobenzoic Acid(PABA)   400mg   **
Colostrum(Bovine)   25mg   **
Argentine Liver(Bovine)   3.9g   **
Shark Cartilage   1g   **
Choline Complex   1.2g   **
Bioflavonoids(Citrus)   1g   **
Essential Fatty Acid Complex   
Linoleic Acid   200mg   **
Oleic Acid   100mg   **
Digestive Enzymes   
Betaine HCL   200mg   **
Pepsin   64mg   **
Papain   64mg   **
Pancreatin   700mg   **
Mycozyme   64mg   **
* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet
** Daily Value not established
Other Ingredients
Maltodextrin, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Citrate, Magnesium Stearate, Stearic Acid, Parsley, Goldenseal, Don Quai, Burdock, Alfalfa, Water Cress, Rice Bran, Cellulose, Rose Hips

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2049 on: 21/11/2008 08:07:52 »
Hi, haven't posted for a bit due to not having internet access.

The fenugreek supplements are still working very well - I am taking 3 capsules of Solgar fenugreek before and after orgasm, as well as having a protein-heavy meal shortly after. On a couple of occasions the POIS symptoms have hardly happened at all, on a couple more they have been very substantially reduced (70%). On one occasion when I left out the protein meal and did not take fenugreek after the event, the POIS effects were only partly alleviated.

So it is still very successful for me!