Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3200 on: 29/01/2009 16:54:31 »
Hi Deloun,

Thanks for loading up your test results, very helpful!

How is your immune system ? Often get unwell?

How about leaky gut, digestive problems, bloat, stomach pain etc ?

I would recommend Primal Defense Probiotic Formula for friendly bacteria
for your very low friendly bacteria readings.

Wow ... your first test is really messed up!

The mercury Kwik tests and copper probably are the worst.

What has your doc recommended for excreting and chelating the elevated mercurys ??

I will relook over this more in depth later,

Michael




« Last Edit: 29/01/2009 16:56:13 by Michael8028 »

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3201 on: 29/01/2009 17:23:09 »
Deloun,

Do you also have any tests for your neurotransmitters ?

With your diagnosis of Undermethylation, I bet you also have imbalances with your neurotransmitters.

Have you had your adrenals checked? Iam sure I read that Undermethylation can lead to adrenal fatigue.

Also that mercury causes undermethylation depletion of glutathione.Supplemening with high doses
of glutathione would make the undermethylation individual feel alot better.
Best to check with your doc on this.

Very informative read on Methylation status, mercury and many other related inc datas of which supplements
help :

http://jbnat.com/articles/methylation.pdf [nofollow]



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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3202 on: 29/01/2009 17:25:11 »
Hi Deloun,

Thanks for loading up your test results, very helpful!

Thank you for your comments.

Quote
How is your immune system ? Often get unwell?

I believe it could be better but my immune system is not very weak I think.

Quote
How about leaky gut, digestive problems, bloat, stomach pain etc ?

I'm not sure about the leaky gut, but I have had a permeability test for my colon and the results were normal so I think it is OK, regarding that.

Quote
I would recommend Primal Defense Probiotic Formula for friendly bacteria
for your very low friendly bacteria readings.

Indeed, the amount of friendly bacteria in my colon is very low. I've already taken probiotics for a while after the test, but I might do some more and have a test again.

Quote
Wow ... your first test is really messed up!

The mercury Kwik tests and copper probably are the worst.

What has your doc recommended for excreting and chelating the elevated mercurys ??

I will relook over this more in depth later,

Michael

To chelate I'm planning to try the Cuttler protocol with alpha lipoic acid and DMSA, both are known to be very effective mercury chelators. I have a book about this, which contains this protocol. I've posted earlier about this yesterday.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3203 on: 29/01/2009 17:27:52 »
[...]
I have bought a book about mercury amalgam fillings and chelation therapy called "Amalgam Illness" by "Andrew Hall Cutler" (2), which I can really recommend. He is a chemist who himself has been sick by amalgam fillings and he has cured himself. In his book he describes a chelation protocol where alpha lipoic acid and either DMSA or DMPS are being used. I plan to follow the chelation protocol with alpha lipoic acid and DMSA, since DMSA seems to be more effective then DMPS, according to scientific research that I've read online.

(1) http://europeanlaboratory.com [nofollow]
(2) http://www.noamalgam.com [nofollow]

Edit: replaced incorrect second link by correct one

I've quoted the part of my message yesterday regarding chelation.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3204 on: 29/01/2009 17:42:03 »
Michael--I have a prescription for compounded cortisol 5mg. I'm trying to gage how long I should do that before
I begin the thyroid hormone...  I'm thinking at least a week. I don't want to get the side effects that seem to happen with
thyroid hormones, when you have weak adrenals, so I'm being very cautious.  What's your take on this?... I'm continuing
all my natural adrenal supplements as well.

Also when I took my cortisol yesterday, I suddenly became very relaxed and tired. Did you have that experience too? Is
that common? After a few hours it changed to kind of hyper, but initially it felt like a big slowing down.

Lastly, I take regular DHEA and it obviously isn't absorbing well. After 8 years of at least 25-50 mg per day, my
levels are still low range. Where do you get the sublingual DHEA and the cream? It sounds much more effective.
« Last Edit: 29/01/2009 17:44:40 by girlwind »

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3205 on: 29/01/2009 17:42:36 »
Deloun,

Do you also have any tests for your neurotransmitters ?

With your diagnosis of Undermethylation, I bet you also have imbalances with your neurotransmitters.

Yes, I have also requested tests for several neurotransmitters and some of them are indeed deficient, which can indeed be a consequence of poor methylation. The results show low serotonin and deficiencies of noradrenaline (norepinephrine) and adrenaline (epinephrine).

Quote
Have you had your adrenals checked? Iam sure I read that Undermethylation can lead to adrenal fatigue.

I'm not sure, I've requested tests for quite a lot of things, I have to check this.

Quote
Also that mercury causes undermethylation depletion of glutathione.Supplemening with high doses of glutathione would make the undermethylation individual feel alot better.
Best to check with your doc on this.

Indeed, in fact, the orthomolecular doctor already prescribed glutathione, but it is part of the many supplements she prescribed that I mentioned that I still have to take. And I'm thinking about taking the methionine as methylation donor in addition which I mentioned.

Quote
Very informative read on Methylation status, mercury and many other related inc datas of which supplements
help :

http://jbnat.com/articles/methylation.pdf [nofollow]

Thanks a lot for your suggestions and that pdf certainly seems interesting, I'll definitely take a look at it.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3206 on: 29/01/2009 18:15:33 »
Yes, Deloun  posted something about  methylation p135. To be honnest it's not easy to understand . I will read more articles on this.

Michael, did you make the test days after ejaculation ?

If not, it means the hormones depletion is constant ant not just after orgasm. I remember you talked about inflammation and role of diet. I believe inflammation caused by junk food is another factor of hormonal unbalance. Not just repeated ejaculations, or psychological stress.
I will go to my lab next week to ask what tests they do. Saliva test especially for DHEA/cortisol if possible because i believe they are more reliable. My heavy metal test is negative (porphyrins).  

Hi B_Jim,

Yes most of the testing was done the morning after orgasm during POIS
I also did the tests when POIS was not present.

I found Borage Oil high strength 4-5 grams really helped
with inflammation as well as vit B supps and more fruit in
my diet.I agree with you the less junk food is most important
for helping with inflammation especially the day(s) after orgasm.


Dhea/Cortisolx4 saliva is perfect tests for your adrenals.

Are the tests from your own doc? If so it would be very helpful
if you could ask for full neurotransmitter and hormone tests.


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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3207 on: 29/01/2009 18:38:59 »
Specially packaged from Demografx: " i'm enjoying reading the posts on my cellphone and send my best wishes! demo"

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3208 on: 29/01/2009 18:48:16 »
Michael--I have a prescription for compounded cortisol 5mg. I'm trying to gage how long I should do that before
I begin the thyroid hormone...  I'm thinking at least a week. I don't want to get the side effects that seem to happen with
thyroid hormones, when you have weak adrenals, so I'm being very cautious.  What's your take on this?... I'm continuing
all my natural adrenal supplements as well.

Also when I took my cortisol yesterday, I suddenly became very relaxed and tired. Did you have that experience too? Is
that common? After a few hours it changed to kind of hyper, but initially it felt like a big slowing down.

Lastly, I take regular DHEA and it obviously isn't absorbing well. After 8 years of at least 25-50 mg per day, my
levels are still low range. Where do you get the sublingual DHEA and the cream? It sounds much more effective.

Hi Girlwind,

Once you have reached either 20mg-30mg of cortisol
in going up at 2.5mg of cortisol every 5 days, you can then
add some form of thyroid. Which Thyroid have you been prescribed?

Yes, being cautious is definetly
wise in this situation as you dont want to experience the thyroid dumps
which causes anxiety, overall nervousness and heart palpitations from
adding Thyroid med when you have not enough Cortisol in your
body to accept.

With isocort and hydrocortisone, yes I did feel many side effects
like bloat, heaviness, drained, slower physically and mentally.
It was clear to me that I was not suited to both iso and hydrocort
so I looked for an alternative and found a few people online
doing much better on Medrol. I felt much better on Medrol with
steady energy and a better ability to handle stress and no side effects.

I think I started on 30mg of Armour once I hit 6mg of Medrol but I increased
too quickly on the armour and experienced the thyroid dumps.

I then changed to a 1/2 grain every 3-4 weeks or so depending
on symptoms. If I was feeling Hypo again then I would increase.

I would recommmend you to increase by at the most 1/4 grain first since
you have had adrenal fatigue longer than I.

Sorry Girlwind, I have tried to search for my orders for dhea cream and dhea
sublingual but my email search engine is not working properly.


The 2 dheas I used were called dhea plus life flo cream and
Douglas Labs Dhea Sublingual 5mg 100 Tablets if that helps?

Now I only rub 1 dose of Dhea cream a day since my Dhea levels
gradually got better and rose abit above the upper range.

It is now sitting just under the top range which is ideal.



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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3209 on: 29/01/2009 19:01:17 »
Girlwind,



I forgot to say that I would not recommend Dhea cream until your
Thyroid free t3 is in 1/4 of the top range.

I remember now Dr. Mariano posting that people with Thyroid problems
have thick skin and the gels and creams have a hard time getting though the skin.

Dhea sub should be absorbed fine via the back of the tongue.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3210 on: 29/01/2009 20:05:14 »
Hey Michael--

I have heard some people think that you may have too many "easy answers." So I'd like for you to clarify, if this process
really was as EASY as you make it sound? Or was it a more of a challenge to get all the hormones balanced? And what
about other people that you know who have either POIS, CFS or other out-of-balance hormone conditions... how easy
was it for them to get back in balance? What were/are the main obstacles along the way? How did you/do you deal with
these?  What warnings would you give to people who begin the hormone balancing agenda? What expectations would
be reasonable to have? And are there any other forums you'd recommend to find more information on all this?

I've really appreciated the time you've given to this POIS forum over the last day. It's been VERY informative for me personally.
so, thanks
« Last Edit: 29/01/2009 20:44:46 by girlwind »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3211 on: 29/01/2009 21:41:05 »
Update: I tried Relora 2-4x/day (500-1000 mg/day), every day, for three weeks to a month.  I noticed mild post-orgasm anxiety improvement, but nothing else (other than feeling somewhat tired for the first few days).  Overall, I would say there was no significant effect in my case. I had several releases in that period, so it was "put to the test".  Also, I wasn't getting my cortisol levels checked in this period, so I can't confirm whether or not it had an effect on cortisol.

Note that I was also taking phosphatidylserine (~ 1000 mg/day) during this time. 

And I also tried ashwaganda.  I actually noticed more of an effect with it than with either relora or phosphatidylserine.  It certainly didn't cure me of POIS, or even come close.  But it helped me relax somewhat.

Finally, I have run two one-month experiments with beta blockers, at this point.  The first time, they did seem to help.  My POIS wasn't cured, but symptoms were lessened.  With nadolol (a general beta blocker), I noticed less sensitivity to sugary foods and caffeine (these can bring on POIS like symptoms for me).  Bisoprolol took several weeks to help, and it did seem to diminish symptoms somewhat.

The second time I tried bisoprolol, it wasn't as effective.  It's hard for me to say how much it helped or didn't help.  I think it helped a little, but it certainly isn't the answer for me, on it's own anyways.
« Last Edit: 29/01/2009 21:49:16 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3212 on: 29/01/2009 22:43:31 »
I did not intend to make my success in curing POIS come across easy since
It definetly was not easy.

There was alot of ups and downs since experiencing the first small signs
of POIS, hormone+neuro chemical imbalance and adrenal fatigue in my
late teens. At 21 during a trip to New York that is when I knew something
was seriously wrong.After an orgasm in the NY hotel the next morning
I woke up with flu+cold like symptoms along with headaches, brain fog,
inflammation all over the face, body and also felt exhausted for no reason
and could not go out that day to explore NY but had to sleep in extra
hours to recover somewhat in the NY hotel.

Why did I go from training twice a day in boxing and competing
in amateur matches and having great energy and drive for life as well
as very high libido to ....
someone who felt completely exhausted day and night, feeling dead after
every orgasm for up to 2 weeks at its worst, to having panic attacks
when the house phone rang or being too scared to answer the door.

I tried my local gp/drs and I asked each time for a new doc since
some thought it was all in my head,
one felt pity for me and asked me why I could be so stupid,
blamed it on multi vitamin and other supplements
and said if i stopped them for 6 months everything would go back as normal.

Finally one doc was good enough to refer me to an Urologist and then
later on an Endocrinologist. I got papped with Ibrobufen for the migraines
and was told to come back after 3 months.

I eventually got a few hormones checked but I had
printed out many pages of studies and data on what hormones
should be tested for and why.

The Docs spent 20secs to look at it and then put it down.

One said, there was no need to test Estradiol because it was a female
hormone.

I didnt know at that time so i just took his word for it.

After doing my own research I know that if E2 is slightly high
or low, it causes many problems with libibo as confirmed
by Dr Mariano. I believe I made a post a few months back on
this.

They didnt even bother to test Free/Bio test, Dht, Cortisol, Free T3 Thyroid
and many others and simply saying these hormones did not need to be
checked and that I was within range for SHBG, total Test, Dhea &  Prolactin.

So again, I took their words for it but after finding out , my SHBG was way too low,
total test was low, dhea was low and Prolactin was a few points from the top
of the range.I found out that high prolactin could be related to
tumors and pituitary damage and went to have furthur tests done for
prolactin while on POIS and they all came back 2-3x higher than the first test
through the doc when not in POIS.

Luckily no brain tumor or abnormalities were present.

I also had many experiences with Chinese herbal drs where they blamed
it on the false liver fire and that me being too Yang(heat) and not enough
Yin fluids(Cold) present and that was causing the inflammation and headaches.
Also that my adrenals were depleted and had to take their Adrenal
tonics to repair them.

I probably spent over 3 thousand pounds(5000usd roughly)on herbal
treatments. It did help but did no where near curing.

Since I had lost touch with my social life it meant I did not
see my friends anymore and that throughout this period I just stayed
in the house everyday unless I had to go out.

I had not one single
soul to talk to about this and even if I did that person would
not have a bloody clue and I would not want to put all this negative
energy towards them.

The above is a very short version and I usually prefer to keep the sentimental
side to myself but maybe people on this board can relate to this than to hormone chat.

Anyways my previous situation with POIS is not that bad compared
to others who have had it for 10,20 or 30 years.

I have a friend who I have never met who is nearly twice my age
(Although i'm sure he wouldnt like me saying that :)
who has had Chronic fatigue syndrome
for 12 plus years.

He could not climb a flight of stairs without suffering for the
rest of the day.

Now he is doing really well with Osteopathic
and other treatments.He has opened his own clinic
to treat other people with similar symptoms.

The folks on the Anabolic minds and mesomorphosis forums
had really helped me out alot even if they did not know.

Dr Mariano
also posts there and I use to take alot of my time to read his posts.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/members/marianco.html [nofollow]


I was the impatient type and wanted to be cured quickly
and often tried to do too much all at once.

I found out from good and bad experiences and from mistakes,
it is best to fully research and understand what is going on in your
body before even supplementing, especially if it is hormones.

Use the results from your own
data and research scientific studies and ask others who have
had the same problems and have improved their health.

Keep monitoring your levels and adjust accordlingly and also go by
symptoms as well.

The more tests you can get done the quicker you can find out what
is wrong and the quicker you can be treated which will enable
you to feel better sooner than later.

Your welcome Girlwind Iam just going from my experience.

Michael

P.S http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/ [nofollow]
is a very informative forum dealing with Adrenal fatigue and
Hypothyroidism related problems.(It has been closed to post
but you can still read)

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3213 on: 30/01/2009 01:49:14 »
ON tyrosine.  I tried once to eat lots of proteins especially chicken. I saw improvement but only in talking, i talked alot more but memory and cognitive skills were still lacking.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3214 on: 30/01/2009 01:52:47 »
After a week or so of doing that it became less effective

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3215 on: 30/01/2009 06:04:42 »
Girlwind: Life Entension has sublingual DHEA 25mg. LEF.org or Life Extension.com.  They also have some blood testing.   

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3216 on: 30/01/2009 10:01:27 »
I have checked it and the supplement that I've gotten prescribed isn't glutathione, but L-glutamine, which is a precursor to glutathione.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3217 on: 30/01/2009 10:10:18 »
ON tyrosine.  I tried once to eat lots of proteins especially chicken. I saw improvement but only in talking, i talked alot more but memory and cognitive skills were still lacking.

So you are taking tyrosine at the moment you mean, right? I have also ordered free form L-tyrosine of Source Naturals, a while back, but until now I have only tried to take a few tablets a few times and haven't tried it anymore yet. I believe it should at least be taken for a few days in a row and in sufficient dosages for it to be effective. It might help me, since it's known to be a precursor to dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline and thyroid hormones and tests showed deficiencies of noradrenaline, adrenaline and T3. I'm curious to know if it helps you.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3218 on: 30/01/2009 10:25:12 »
This is a question meant for all of you. What do you think of the idea that anyone who wants to, can upload his laboratory test results at the picasaweb space I posted earlier, after the person scanned them and removed all information on the tests that can identify him or her? And then to put each persons test results in a different album with the name of the album containing that persons forum nickname. To remove personal information that can identify you after you have scanned the test results, you can simply open the results in a drawing application like for example windows paint or gimp on linux and painting all the personal information white.

I personally believe it can be quite useful to have different laboratory test results available as reference of different people with POIS, what do you think?

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3219 on: 30/01/2009 11:56:03 »
Alternatively, personal information on the test results can be covered with something before scanning to conceal it and with some scanners and scan applications you can select the scan area.
« Last Edit: 30/01/2009 12:20:27 by deloun »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3220 on: 30/01/2009 16:04:35 »
ON tyrosine.  I tried once to eat lots of proteins especially chicken. I saw improvement but only in talking, i talked alot more but memory and cognitive skills were still lacking.

So you are taking tyrosine at the moment you mean, right? I have also ordered free form L-tyrosine of Source Naturals, a while back, but until now I have only tried to take a few tablets a few times and haven't tried it anymore yet. I believe it should at least be taken for a few days in a row and in sufficient dosages for it to be effective. It might help me, since it's known to be a precursor to dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline and thyroid hormones and tests showed deficiencies of noradrenaline, adrenaline and T3. I'm curious to know if it helps you.

I did not use tyrosine pills, i just ate alot of chicken and meat, it help at first but stoped being effective. and it only helped with talking.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3221 on: 30/01/2009 16:06:07 »
I did not intend to make my success in curing POIS come across easy since
It definetly was not easy.

I was the impatient type and wanted to be cured quickly
and often tried to do too much all at once.

I found out from good and bad experiences and from mistakes,
it is best to fully research and understand what is going on in your
body before even supplementing, especially if it is hormones.

Use the results from your own
data and research scientific studies and ask others who have
had the same problems and have improved their health.

Keep monitoring your levels and adjust accordlingly and also go by
symptoms as well.

The more tests you can get done the quicker you can find out what
is wrong and the quicker you can be treated which will enable
you to feel better sooner than later.

Your welcome Girlwind I am just going from my experience.

Michael

Thank you so much Michael, for your very intimate detailed account of your healing process. I am personally
very grateful for your time and generosity with the wealth of information you have presented. Because I am
just a newbie with the hormone balancing thing, I appreciate the accounts of one who is a "veteran" in this process.
I have lived with CFS and POIS for 30 years, (the CFS being at least a hundred times more devastating to my life and
functioning than POIS), so I can totally empathize with how hard it was for you during your collapse. But now
feel very hopeful knowing that there is something CONCRETE that I can do to change my body and energy for the
better. I also understand that it will not be an easy ride, but I'm much better prepared for it, due in part to all the
information that you have provided me with. 
« Last Edit: 30/01/2009 16:58:20 by girlwind »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3222 on: 30/01/2009 16:55:38 »
Girlwind: Life Entension has sublingual DHEA 25mg. LEF.org or Life Extension.com.  They also have some blood testing.  

Thank you! I will certainly check that out.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3223 on: 30/01/2009 17:09:41 »
I have checked it and the supplement that I've gotten prescribed isn't glutathione, but L-glutamine, which is a precursor to glutathione.

HEY DELOUN--

According to what I have read, N-A-C (n-acetyl cysteine) is a precursor to glutathione, which is A KEY COMPONENT in
liver detoxification.
It has worked WONDERS for me in helping remove some of the heavy metals in my body--arsenic and
uranium in particular.  I also took PCA-Rx for heavy metal detox., which has been very helpful as well.

Whereas L-glutamine, as I've used it, has had anti-inflammatory properties, particularly for the gut. I used to have
problems with leaky gut syndrome, due to candida issues, and L-glutamine was awesome in helping resolve that. I had to take
it religiously every morning and evening on an empty stomach (very important, or it will be digested as protein) for 6 months
to completely heal the leaky gut. I still take it now when I have gut aggravations. For me, it has been a very helpful and easy
supplement to take.
« Last Edit: 30/01/2009 17:13:40 by girlwind »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3224 on: 30/01/2009 19:10:37 »
Michael-
Re: Blood Brain Barrier Permeability, Oxygen and Age

I was wondering if you can tell me how long it took you to solve POIS, from your initial, devastating experiences until your successful conclusion recently? Also, I assume you were in great shape physically (boxing/training etc) when POIS started? But did you continue to exercise vigorously during your recovery period? What was your routine? Can you also tell me your age?

I'm asking these questions because I'm interested in how medications, supplements etc. affect different people differently if, for their efficacy, they need to pass the BBB. One of my theories is that if a person has good circulation and plenty of blood OXYGEN (the universal detoxifier), they may respond differently to medications.
Perhaps faster with a stronger impact? I don't know. This may (theoretically) be a result of our brains with billions of cells continually cleaning cellular waste and toxins; removing them. A young person in great shape with plenty of circulating oxygen may very well have an easier time with the BBB permeability issues. This may explain how your intake of GABA and 5HTP so "easily" found their receptors. Thus, my theory suggests that doses of different supplements (such as amino acids) may be totally different for different people or may never work at all.

For me, whatever I take goes right to my brain. For example, I just took 100 mg. of L Theanine the other day and it went right to my brain---the same power as a psychotropic. You obviously are strong and respond quickly to meds, and you can change things up quickly. I also am a life long athlete in very good shape, but I'm 60 yrs. old and I'm losing strength and power and endurance. This is a bummer. Right now for me, I have concluded that I will continue my experiments with supplements at MUCH lower doses (due to age). For me, I think this issue of Oxygen, Circulation and BBB is significant. I don't ever want to return to any modern, psychiatric medications. My psychiatrist was quite puzzled last year how taking 1 mg. of Valium a day worked so fast and effectively for 3 months, since it is NEVER given in such low doses, not even to babies). I assume it was ushered in right past all barriers.

Thanks Michael, your answer will help me in my experiments with swimming, breathing, posture, and how to take my supplements.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3225 on: 31/01/2009 03:10:48 »
I everyone i went to urologist to get test, he could only check for prolactin and testosterone  but the good news is, when he saw the waldingers paper and ny times article and micheal's story  there is no way he could tell me it is psychological.

Great feedback, CC! Those papers have given us a major credibility breakthrough.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3226 on: 31/01/2009 03:20:17 »
Michael,

We've been in communication privately, and wanted to thank you publicly for all your detailed info.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3227 on: 31/01/2009 16:37:40 »
I thought cortisol is a stress hormone. But it's not so easy : cortisol can be seen as anti-stress hormone too.
Some studies show supplementations of glucocorticoids help people with phobias :
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=16967
The depletion of cortisol is the real state of stress.

http://www.cuvillier.de/flycms/de/html/30/-UickI3zKPSj3cUk=/Buchdetails.html
Quote
Cortisone treatment significantly reduced anxiety levels by 37% in patients suffering from social phobia, as compared to placebo treatment and further significantly decreased heart rate reactivity.

Thank you B_Jim for this clarification. I had questions about cortisol along these same lines. According to my understanding,
I also thought cortisol was a "stress hormone" and that it increased when one was "stressing out."

I just began taking hydrocortisone this week--as a naturally compounded prescription. I can verify that it does NOT give me
a stress reaction when I take it. In fact, the first time I took it, I noticed (half an hour later) that it was slowing me down and
making me feel more relaxed, almost sluggish.

I've heard from several people now, including Michael, and my naturopath, and my doctor as well, that it's important to get
one's adrenals in an optimal state, BEFORE TAKING ANY THYROID MEDS. Otherwise, if one's adrenals are weak, (as is cortisol
deficient), then one can be inclined to get anxiety attacks and heart palpitations from increasing the thyroid. This is more
indication of how all the hormones work together,  and how tricky it can be to get them in a balance with each other.

Here's an article that tells more about cortisol's functions and health benefits.

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/hormones/cortisol.php
« Last Edit: 31/01/2009 16:46:37 by girlwind »

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3228 on: 31/01/2009 17:51:56 »
I have checked it and the supplement that I've gotten prescribed isn't glutathione, but L-glutamine, which is a precursor to glutathione.

HEY DELOUN--

According to what I have read, N-A-C (n-acetyl cysteine) is a precursor to glutathione, which is A KEY COMPONENT in
liver detoxification.
It has worked WONDERS for me in helping remove some of the heavy metals in my body--arsenic and
uranium in particular.  I also took PCA-Rx for heavy metal detox., which has been very helpful as well.

Whereas L-glutamine, as I've used it, has had anti-inflammatory properties, particularly for the gut. I used to have
problems with leaky gut syndrome, due to candida issues, and L-glutamine was awesome in helping resolve that. I had to take
it religiously every morning and evening on an empty stomach (very important, or it will be digested as protein) for 6 months
to completely heal the leaky gut. I still take it now when I have gut aggravations. For me, it has been a very helpful and easy
supplement to take.

Hey Girlwind,

OK, I have gotten prescribed an orthomolecular medicine for liver detoxification called Ultra Clear Plus and I've looked at the ingredients and it indeed contains n-acetyl cysteine.

I believe that I've gotten L-glutamine prescribed because of a deficiency of methione, glutathione, poor methylation and to support detoxification.

I haven't taken either of them yet, although I do have them here, by the way.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3229 on: 31/01/2009 18:30:20 »
Hey Girlwind,

OK, I have gotten prescribed an orthomolecular medicine for liver detoxification called Ultra Clear Plus and I've looked at the ingredients and it indeed contains n-acetyl cysteine.

I believe that I've gotten L-glutamine prescribed because of a deficiency of methione, glutathione, poor methylation and to support detoxification.

I haven't taken either of them yet, although I do have them here, by the way.

Back to you, Deloun--

Ultra-Clear...that sounded familiar. I remember taking it years ago for detoxification and nutritional supplementation.
One side effect for me was ULTRA- diarrhea. I'm not saying that you'll have that, but I sure did!

I read more on L-glutamine and found out that it's used commonly by body builders and by those with IBS (irritable
bowel syndrome). Check it out.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/supplements-reviews/glutamine-side-effects-benefits.htm
http://www.irritable-bowel-syndrome.ws/l-glutamine.htm
« Last Edit: 31/01/2009 18:31:56 by girlwind »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3230 on: 31/01/2009 21:37:46 »
[...]
To remove your mercury, not all dentists have the right equipment to do this. (Maybe you know this already..)  Take someone who is qualified and who have the required material (expensive). Otherwise you can do more harm than good. 

Thank you for reminding me for this, I have also received your PM about it.
I have thought about making an appointment with a dentist that is specialized in removing mercury amalgam fillings, but in the end I have chosen to make the appointment with my own dentist, for the beginning of march. But I have asked him to take extra precautions to limit the risks involved regarding the mercury. I have asked him to make use of the Scania Dental Clean Up (1), which is some kind of vacuum cleaning device that should be placed around the tooth, and a rubber dam (cofferdam). I have also asked him to clean any residues of amalgam, that are left over after the fillings have been removed. I hope that this is enough, what do you think, do you have any other suggestions?

(1) http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/AMALGAM/NL/cleanup.htm

Deloun,
I suggest that you write to the website I gave you PM to ask what's the difference with other dentists (procedures & equipment). You can also read this protocol about how to remove mercury :
http://www.iaomt.org/articles/files/files288/Safe%20Removal%20of%20Amalgam%20Fillings.pdf
It seems that a tool to breathe clean air would have been an additional protection.
Also doing small job at one time, put a lot of water and succion, and taking some supplements may help. Hope you'll pass through this easily.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3231 on: 01/02/2009 02:40:05 »
TESTOSTERONE

In my 2nd week of T-patches, continuing to feel better.

I passed on specific concerns/comments from 2 others here (thanks, guys!) to my endocrinologist, who will discuss them with me in our March appt., and meanwhile, he replied about comments/concerns: "not to worry" (and i won't...that is, unless my derriere falls off [:)])

Unless I see overwhelming evidence (numbers, studies, etc.) to the contrary, I will play out my current strategy - primarily with physician MD's, till it succeeds or fails. And, of course, modifications along the way - possibly including supplements.

I wish everyone the utmost success, regardless of their strategy. Keep in mind, no one has yet written a book, "The Cure For POIS". We're all different.

« Last Edit: 01/02/2009 02:45:11 by demografx »

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3232 on: 01/02/2009 13:32:14 »
Re: Michael and hormone rebalancing.
Michael you have made some great posts. Well done Michael on your perseverance. You are lucky to have an understanding and cluey doctor. From the sounds of it you doctor shopped. Was the guy you ended up with an endo? From your outcome, it would seem that POIS is not caused by just one defective bio-chemical but by a number of defective hormones/neurotransmitters/enzymes, which is why it is proving elusive in mapping it to just one compound and why symptoms differ across the forum members as they would differing results to varying degrees or even other bio irregularities.

I can relate to some but not all of your results:
Low Total Test + abnormal low free test
Normal Cortisol (but strongly suspect it was high yrs ago)
Abnormal Low DHEA
Normal T3 + T4. My request for Free T3 and T4 was dismissed
Normal Prolactin
Estriol+Estrone - Never tested.
Low DHT
No neurotransmitter tests performed.
Abnormal low IGF/GH

My experience in dealing with these outcomes above are as follows:
Testosterone - As a couple of others have commented here - I do not think testosterone is the answer to POIS. It may however be a piece of the jigsaw.
Finally after a number of years of complaining I found a doc who tested for Free Test. Kudos to him, however the way he went about treating it was not ideal. I was given sustanon250 injections, but only 1 a month. He said because I was not old and the hysteria over steroids he could give me too much test. Trouble was with this high dose infrequent regime - I was on a hormonal roller coaster. The high dose by day 7 would signal the hypothalamus to reduce my own production, so by day 30 I was stuffed and desperate for another shot.
Testosterone helped in a couple of ways but I was also disappointed in other aspects. It was better than any anti-depressant, my memory improved, my endurance improved, my strength improved, my body tone improved. It did not however improve my poor appetite, nor did I put on any weight. No improvement in motivation or competivness or confidence or libido. In fact my libido was screwed and confidence levels were worse which baffled me. I decided to increase dose to 2 x 250/mth. I noticed no difference apart from some increase in aggression + oily skin, which again surprised me.
I then gave testosterone cream a try. I was disappointed with this. Less of the positives and more hair loss. I am now on sus100 inj 3 a month. You'd be extremely lucky to find a doctor to prescribe you HCG (which kick starts your gonads). Disappointingly I also find Horny Goat Weed and Tribulus don't do anything for me either whereas yrs ago I got an effect from Tribulus. (Q for Michael - You found a doc who prescribed you HCG? Its not cheap either)

DHEA - I tried dhea I think it was 50mg caps x 1 a day. I did not notice any improvement in health but only took for a short while as I was loosing hair badly on this. I have since tried with 10mg/day and don't notice much health wise. This was disappointing as dhea is a master hormone involved in a number of biochemical pathways that I wondered if it was a key to pois.

IGF/GH - Have been prescribed a few drugs that had side effect of supposidly boosting GH. For instance muscle relaxant Baclofen. While it improved my sleep and my health to small degree, I continue to have very low readings. Because I have a couple of low but just normal readings in the past few yrs the endo thinks thatís good enough for him.

Thyroid - While my TSH + T3 + T4 results came back as normal, I have noticed that I have more energy when I have taken a tonic that contained iodine + selenium. Over this time I have also had a lessening in pois symptoms but it has not been a direct correlation to taking this tonic + I have taken a number of other treatments specifically to deal with my CFS. If you are wondering about your thyroid and yr doc wont give you a blood test for anything beyond TSH, you could try seaweed extract as girlwind recommended and also a selenium extract (Brazil nuts are high in selenium). If you are hyperthyroid this is going to possibly exacerbate your condition.

I have wondered about my Estriol levels but didn't push for a test because I did not exhibit any signs of gynecomastia. I assumed my disappointment with testosterone inj. was because I had high SHBG levels, and that the extra test I was taking was largely getting bound to by SHBG. 

Adrenals - I have no doubt I had adrenal burn out years ago. One of the things that helped me get back to work with CFS was mega dose vitamin C injections. This past couple of yrs one of the herbs I have taken that I have rated highly is liquorice (or Glycyrrhizin) which nourishes the adrenal glands. I also have minimal sugars in my diet and take Mg + High dose Vit-B supps daily. I've never had an ACTH stimulation test. I recorded high ACTH levels in the past when I was taking the anti-viral herb sutherlandia and I did have more energy when on this.

Neurotransmittors -
Serotonin - I have been prescribed a number of ADs over the years, to treat mild depression associated with having CFS year after year. I have never felt better on any of them, in fact I felt worse. Some studies have shown that a significant % of CFS patients have in fact high serotonin levels, and I suspect this might be me. From my perspective low serotonin does not explain pois.

Gaba - I am not sure on this. One of the best episodes of good health I have had was when I took Gabapetin. This is a drug used by epileptics and is being used off list in a number of other conditions. I felt awesome both mentally and physically on this drug, no pois/CFS whatsoever...however the effect wore off after 12 days. Increasing the dose did not work. Going off and on it only made it work for a day. I then tried valpoic acid which is supposed to increase gaba. It did not work for me. I then tried Lyrica which is the new and improved version of Gabapentin..again no luck, just works like a sedative. I tried gaba powder (sublingually), but this only had very weak effect. It does not cross the blood brain barrier, otherwise if it did it would be a controlled substance.

Noradrenalin - Not sure on this. I was given a drug that was supposed to help boost levels of this NT, which I felt more alert on but the effect wore off after a week. Increasing the dose did not make much difference. I am wary of ramping up ADs to high levels and staying on them continually. For me it does not account for pois.

Acetylcholine - My doc thought I could well be deficient here. I was prescribed Pyridostigmine which is supposed to help boost levels. I noticed some improvement in mental wellbeing but nothing dramatic and no real effect on pois. I tried phospatidylserine yrs ago and found it helped a lot with brain fog but it is hard to get where I live and very expensive.

Vasopressin - never tested.

Dopamine - I have suspected this might be a problem for me. I have never been given any med that acted on this NT because the doctors were wary given I have high stress + anxiousness levels, plus they only seem comfortable dealing with SSRIs + trycyclics. A number of yrs ago I took an Indian herb called Kaunch. This contains L-dopa and is used in Ayurvedic medicine similar to ginseng. Unfortunately it proved a disappointment. I felt a bit better on the amino acid Tyrosine (building block for dopamine + noradrenalin) however, though it was no pois killer.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3233 on: 01/02/2009 18:06:28 »
\
Re: Michael and hormone rebalancing.
You are lucky to have an understanding and cluey doctor. From the sounds of it you doctor shopped. Was the guy you ended up with an endo? From your outcome, it would seem
that POIS is not caused by just one defective bio-chemical but by a number of defective hormones/neurotransmitters/enzymes, which is why it is proving elusive in mapping it to
just one compound and why symptoms differ across the forum members as they would differing results to varying degrees or even other bio irregularities.

Thanks Acronym, for your long informative post. I'm just a beginner with the hormone balancing process, so I still
have much to learn about its intricacies and complexities. But I agree that finding a good doctor or even a naturopath who
is HIGHLY SKILLED in the field, and knows how to order the RIGHT tests, interpret them according to OPTIMAL levels, and
then treat the diverse hormonal imbalances in a way that actually works for their patient, is the key. UN-fortunately this is
a daunting, if not nearly impossible, task. It's a BIG PLUS to be very well self educated on the topic, and this forum has
certainly encouraged that! 

I just began my hydrocortisone at a tiny dose, and am going to increase it incrementally over the next few weeks, before I
begin the thyroid hormone. I'm not taking any other hormones until I have some experience with the adrenals and thyroid,
and hopefully some success in terms of symptom relief.  I think when you have a lot of deficiencies, like me, like you, and
probably like others who have POIS, it will take longer to get on top of all of them and manage them in a workable way. I
am reminding myself that patience and perseverance will come in handy.  [8D]  [8D]  [8D]


« Last Edit: 01/02/2009 18:09:02 by girlwind »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3234 on: 01/02/2009 20:23:50 »
Hi Girlwind--
I couldn't agree with you more: Patience and Perseverence

I've been experimenting with my GAD/POIS "symptoms" for the last week or so with basicallly just three amino acids and a few other adrenal support supplements.
At times, I'll get real good feedback and feel better (way better) for a longer period of time than I've felt in 20 months. Then, I'll get a "dip" and try to remind myself to "just go through it" without any added, internal psychological drama. I have to force myself to be patient (like you said) in order to distance myself from, and fully measure, the "down episode". This is so I don't make a hasty assumption that I need to "tinker" (soon or in the next hours etc). I may not need to "tinker".
I ask myself this question in the fine tuning challenge: To what extent am I naturally adjusting to the changes as I go in the right direction, or will I be required to make a decision to alter the ingredients? It makes you a bit neurotic.

 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3235 on: 01/02/2009 20:30:36 »

[Michael's] POIS is not caused by just one defective bio-chemical but by a number of defective hormones/neurotransmitters/enzymes, which is why it is proving elusive in mapping it to just one compound


An old friend, a biophysics PhD-Harvard lecturer who was a pioneer in HIV/AIDS cure, thinks bromocriptine might be an answer for high prolactin POIS. I'm not willing to try it, it's not a benign agent.

I agree that testosterone is only a piece of the puzzle. But my combination last year of testosterone and Levitra came awfully close to a cure (75%+) on many repeated trials.

Eventually, I think we'll have to choose between a shotgun and a rifle approach.
« Last Edit: 01/02/2009 20:39:10 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3236 on: 01/02/2009 20:37:43 »

To what extent am I naturally adjusting to the changes as I go in the right direction, or will I be required to make a decision to alter the ingredients? It makes you a bit neurotic.


Underwater, that seems to explain some of my experience with Levitra and testosterone.

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Jiddu5

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3237 on: 01/02/2009 23:00:10 »
Hello. I have suffered from mild symptoms of POIS, just really symptoms of malaise, a general feeling of weakness, nervousness and irritability for a day or two or sometimes a few days after ejaculation. I tried many ways to sort it out, diet, vitamins etc., which may have helped (havent really tried eating junk food all the time and not taking vitamins to see what happens!)  but I think the real factor in my recovery has been the Buteyko breathing method. It would take a while for me to describe it, and its best known for treating asthma, but here is a link which will describe it in detail for me:

http://www.buteyko.ie/correctbreathing.php#2

Its a page by an Irish guy, whose book 'Close Your Mouth' was what introduced me to the method. You can get the book on the page, I highly recommend it. The article sounds very techincal, but in fact you don't really have to understand the mechanics of it too much.
I just do the exercise 'steps', a breath holding from the book (actually its presented as an exercise specifically for children but I emailed Patrick McKeown, the author, for advice and he recommended to do it 20 - 30 times daily, morning afternoon and evening) - it will be very difficult at first, but it takes perserverance!

I really don't know if this will work for everone or not, like I said I only had mild symptoms, which were not present consistently, and I suspect they may have been brought on by psychological/emotional issues which came first...

Nonetheless, I though it would be worth it to share it anyway, and I am positive that even if this is not the panacea, it will undoubtedly raise the standard of your health if you practise it regularly. It certainly has done for me.

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Jiddu5

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3238 on: 02/02/2009 02:21:43 »
Hello again. It occured to me that perhaps I wasn't clear enough about the Buteyko method in my post. As well as doing exercises, it involves becoming much more aware of one's breathing habits throughout the day, and reducing the volume of one's breathing (as the article will outline - read right from the top of the page, I know its long but its worth it) and takes quite a while to get the hang of. Also, I forgot to mention that Patrick McKeown recommended doing the 'steps' exercise if you are young and relatively healthy. There is an exercise called 'reduced breathing' that is usually recommended for adults - it might be a better idea to try it first depending on the circumstances, if you are interested enough that is. In fact, there are DVD's by various experts on the method available online also, which could be found with google. Anyway, if you are interested, I recommend you either get a book (I think 'Close Your Mouth' is the most popular one) or a DVD which outlines it in detail. Hope this helps.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3239 on: 02/02/2009 02:33:23 »
Hello Jiddu. I would be willing to try a breathing exercise if it was simple and easy. But this is too complicated for me
right now. Thanks for your posts about it, but I think I'll pass.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3240 on: 02/02/2009 02:36:54 »
Jiddu--
Welcome----You're SO right about breathing. A mistake I made about 3 1/2 years ago really triggered my current GAD episode and made my POIS a lot worse. I was doing quite well until then. Then slowly, from mid 2005, I started to slowly sink into my current distressing situation which kicked off around late spring 2007. I was swimming 80 minutes a day up to spring 2007, doing great Yoga and then working with my weights.
The problem was; I thought it would be great to get washboard Abs. What an IDIOT. I didn't need that at my age. I got down to 32 inch waist. Then crash in spring 2007! Hello GAD Hello bad POIS----I did it to myself. I hate to think about it. Why wasn't I happy the way I was? I was in great shape anyhow. STUPID me. What happened is simple. I created many, many tiny knots in my abdominals. They were so tight that they pulled up on my pelvic floor. I lost all of my natural breathing abilities. ETC
Then came my anxiety condition and my bad POIS. To make a long story short, I work on getting my breathing back every day in the pool. I used to be more like a fish. Now I struggle to get rhythm, because I am not breathing from my stomach. In fact, I always massage my abs to relieve tension. Sometimes I'm in a state of anxiety and tension and the massage will immediately eliminate my condition. Can you believe that?
Anyhow, you are right. Getting a correct balance between oxygen and CO2 is ESSENTIAL.
The other morning, I got into correct breathing rhythm and was fantastic all day.
I hate to learn the wrong way at my age. It's a bummer to have to massage abs everyday in order to breath right. When I get my abs softer and get out the kinks, I will definitely feel better. I will breathe better, and my GAD will be gone. Until then, I work on the biochemistry part of it. I did it to myself. "Calm down me, breathe deeply!"

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3241 on: 02/02/2009 04:10:35 »
while waiting for doctor, i was thinking of overdosing on vit b6. I read at about 200mg it can reduce prolactin amount in body.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3242 on: 02/02/2009 05:06:19 »
while waiting for doctor, i was thinking of overdosing on vit b6. I read at about 200mg it can reduce prolactin amount in body.

Overdosing on B6?  This sounds like a very bad idea. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Toxicity .
Also, do you even know you have high prolactin?  I don't have high prolactin.  And neither did the people in Dr. Waldinger's study.  I would guess that many people here do not have high prolactin.  100 mg/day of B6 is probably ok.  But
1) You don't know if you have high prolactin
2) You don't know if B6 will reduce prolactin
3) Taking B6 in high doses (e.g. 200 mg+/day) is harmful.  Most physicians would warn you against this.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3243 on: 02/02/2009 12:08:34 »
Hey Girlwind,

OK, I have gotten prescribed an orthomolecular medicine for liver detoxification called Ultra Clear Plus and I've looked at the ingredients and it indeed contains n-acetyl cysteine.

I believe that I've gotten L-glutamine prescribed because of a deficiency of methione, glutathione, poor methylation and to support detoxification.

I haven't taken either of them yet, although I do have them here, by the way.

Back to you, Deloun--

Ultra-Clear...that sounded familiar. I remember taking it years ago for detoxification and nutritional supplementation.
One side effect for me was ULTRA- diarrhea. I'm not saying that you'll have that, but I sure did!

I read more on L-glutamine and found out that it's used commonly by body builders and by those with IBS (irritable
bowel syndrome). Check it out.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/supplements-reviews/glutamine-side-effects-benefits.htm [nofollow]
http://www.irritable-bowel-syndrome.ws/l-glutamine.htm [nofollow]

Hmm, ultra diarrhea, that doesn't sound very good, did you also notice that it helped detoxifying the liver?

By the way I meant to say methionine in stead of methione, to correct a typo.

Thank you for the interesting links.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3244 on: 02/02/2009 12:19:00 »
[...]
To remove your mercury, not all dentists have the right equipment to do this. (Maybe you know this already..)  Take someone who is qualified and who have the required material (expensive). Otherwise you can do more harm than good. 

Thank you for reminding me for this, I have also received your PM about it.
I have thought about making an appointment with a dentist that is specialized in removing mercury amalgam fillings, but in the end I have chosen to make the appointment with my own dentist, for the beginning of march. But I have asked him to take extra precautions to limit the risks involved regarding the mercury. I have asked him to make use of the Scania Dental Clean Up (1), which is some kind of vacuum cleaning device that should be placed around the tooth, and a rubber dam (cofferdam). I have also asked him to clean any residues of amalgam, that are left over after the fillings have been removed. I hope that this is enough, what do you think, do you have any other suggestions?

(1) http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/AMALGAM/NL/cleanup.htm [nofollow]

Deloun,
I suggest that you write to the website I gave you PM to ask what's the difference with other dentists (procedures & equipment). You can also read this protocol about how to remove mercury :
http://www.iaomt.org/articles/files/files288/Safe%20Removal%20of%20Amalgam%20Fillings.pdf [nofollow]
It seems that a tool to breathe clean air would have been an additional protection.
Also doing small job at one time, put a lot of water and succion, and taking some supplements may help. Hope you'll pass through this easily.

Thanks martin, I've read that they also mention the clean-up suction tip and rubber dam that I asked my dentist to use. I do have all six amalgam fillings, of which 5 small ones, removed during one appointment though, during about one hour.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3245 on: 02/02/2009 12:25:10 »
Demografx, nice to hear that the testosterone makes you feel better at the moment, do you notice any side effects?

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3246 on: 02/02/2009 12:33:21 »
Jiddu and underwater, I have tried another breathing therapy a few times in the past which might be of help, called holotropic breathing [nofollow].

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3247 on: 02/02/2009 15:36:25 »
Hmm, ultra diarrhea, that doesn't sound very good, did you also notice that it helped detoxifying the liver?

By the way I meant to say methionine in stead of methione, to correct a typo.

Thank you for the interesting links.

I don't know if Ultra Clear helped me all that much with detoxification. What helped me most was going to an expert TCM
doctor, who was really good with detox protocols using Chinese herbs. This is someone who studied in China, has taught
acupuncture school for 25 years, and has written many extensive research papers on Chinese herbs. (Because he is in LA,
traveling to see him was hellish for me, but definitely worth it.) The herbs that he used were the Sun Ten/Brion herbs, (which
are the cleanest herbs on the planet), and the formulas I took were specifically made for my needs at the time. There was
nothing that worked better than those formulas.  Other than that, the N-A-C was of great help... and so was taking saunas
to induce detox through sweating.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3248 on: 02/02/2009 19:35:33 »

demografx 
  what is your doctors plan on restoring testerone level, are u going to have to use T-patch for rest of life or is there a different way


Thanks, CC, great question. The initial plan is to just see if the patches succeed in lowering prolactin, which is possibly my big POIS culprit. The injectables I took before created an erratic flow of testosterone. The patches mimic the body's steady T-flow.

But no, I don't plan to wear them forever. Maybe 2X/year, who knows? And maybe they won't work at all in lowering prolactin, in my case. In that case, we move on to new strategies. But I sure as heck don't want to try the "proven" solutions, like bromocriptine. I'm not that much of a risk-taker.

And to be honest, I'm not sure how much patience or perseverance I have. I don't want to spend my life studying endocrinology.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3249 on: 02/02/2009 19:43:02 »
http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com/our-adrenal-system/
It's an Adrenal fatigue quizz. I find the first point very intersesting :
"I often feel dizzy, faint, like I havenít woken up, or like Iím in a dream."


B_Jim, that describes my personality! [;D]