[demografx]

Remember, it is the accidental discovery that often seems to lead the way for cures.

That's exactly what happened with me, POIS, and Levitra!

[Guthrie]

You case is very interesting because you are the opposite of some guys  (Counterpoints and the "Relora testers" for example ) o brain fog but flu-like symptoms. I consider aches, back pain, sweats and chills are flu-like symptoms. You can see in the database cases like this.
Sometimes they write : "i have knees pain " , " i have back pain " but they don't have brain fog. So i suppose adrenals are ok for them. Or at least steroids/cortisol ratio.
I think for all cases for you, if you fight supposed inflammation after orgasm, your condition might be better.

B_jim, your differentiating between 'brain fog' symptoms and 'flu-like' symptoms is very interesting, especially in light of my experience yesterday.  I took 3 solgar fenugreek capsule 1.5 hours before release Thursday night, then 1 more capsule right afterwards, then 1 Friday morning.  Throughout the day on Friday, my brain fog was much better, and I was able to get a lot of work done.  However, starting around evening-time, I wasn't feeling that great--not brain-fog issues, but just 'feeling out of it' and grumpy.  So it may be that the fenugreek helped with the brain fog, but didn't affect some other symptoms as much.

In response to Counterpoint's question about when I take fenugreek:  I had generally been taking it every day, not just right before orgasm.

[Counterpoints]

What's the difference between 'brain fog' and 'feeling out of it'?  Maybe the grumpy symptoms, etc., were unrelated to POIS?

[demografx]

...they don't have brain fog. So i suppose adrenals are ok for them.

B_Jim, do you see any connection between the adrenal gland and what my doctor is doing, trying to explain my high prolactin via the pituitary gland?

[demografx]

I think for all cases for you, if you fight supposed inflammation after orgasm, your condition might be better.

I wonder if some of the 12-hour non-steroidal anti-inflammatory preparations (NSAIDS) sold over-the-counter  - like *Aleve® with Naproxen Sodium - would work on POIS?

I was advised by a doctor once to take a double dose for an inflammation.

*(store-generic brands are less expensive)

[demografx]

                Brain Fog

[Guthrie]

What's the difference between 'brain fog' and 'feeling out of it'?  Maybe the grumpy symptoms, etc., were unrelated to POIS?

Sorry for the somewhat vague description--it's sometimes hard to put my symptoms into words.  The grumpy feelings were distinctly POIS-related--i.e. they are the ones that I often get towards evening-time of the day after release.  In terms of 'brain fog' vs. 'feeling out of it', I suppose by 'brain fog' I meant something specifically mental that makes it hard for me to think and process and interact with others, whereas by 'feeling out of it', I meant a more general 'not feeling quite right', as one might feel in the case of other illnesses, such as a cold or a fever. 

[demografx]

Maybe Relora could help you too.

I'd like to try relora, but it's not in the pharmacy computer system, so I have no way of knowing how it interacts with my other meds.

Fenugreek is in the pharmacy's computer system, but I worry about it increasing what Levitra provides.

[Counterpoints]

In the last couple months, my POIS has become rather unusual.  After one orgasm, I commonly get all of the mental symptoms -- brain fog, social anxiety, etc.  Sometimes a subsequent orgasm can alleviate these symptoms.  HOWEVER, the relief only lasts for a few hours up to a day.  Then I get this symptom of severe distress and anxiety, making it almost impossible to concentrate and develop my thoughts.  This distress does not improve with time.  Rather, it is worst in the morning until early afternoon, and becomes almost non-existent in the evening.  It then gets worse again in the morning, and this cycle repeats.

I'm thinking this might have something to do with cortisol: cortisol is usually highest in the morning, and decreases steadily until you go to bed. If there are any other ideas, though, I'd be happy to hear them.  Alcohol makes this symptom worse.  For example, if I drink in the evening, I will also likely feel this 'distress' in the evening.

[martin88]

In the last couple months, my POIS has become rather unusual.  After one orgasm, I commonly get all of the mental symptoms -- brain fog, social anxiety, etc.  Sometimes a subsequent orgasm can alleviate these symptoms.  HOWEVER, the relief only lasts for a few hours up to a day.  Then I get this symptom of severe distress and anxiety, making it almost impossible to concentrate and develop my thoughts.  This distress does not improve with time.  Rather, it is worst in the morning until early afternoon, and becomes almost non-existent in the evening.  It then gets worse again in the morning, and this cycle repeats.

I'm thinking this might have something to do with cortisol: cortisol is usually highest in the morning, and decreases steadily until you go to bed. If there are any other ideas, though, I'd be happy to hear them.  Alcohol makes this symptom worse.  For example, if I drink in the evening, I will also likely feel this 'distress' in the evening.

I don't really have a solution, but I know alcohol causes a lack of vitamin B1. This vitamin works with manganese in the body. In a book about oligotherapy they say that manganese is given for allergies, fatigue in the morning, and probably eczema if I remember well. Also they give manganese-copper after sexual excess. I'd suggest to increase food rich in manganese and B1. For manganese:(oat,hazelnuts,..). B1 is easily destroyed by heat.

[girlwind]

It seems to me that exhaustion, fatigue and the other common symptoms of POIS require an incredible energy expenditure. We get into this deficit, and it takes time to come out of it. Our bodies require rest and rebalancing of hormones, neurotransmitters etc. Our nervous system has to return to "normal". Do we burn calories faster than others and at an intensity that puts us into a fight or flight response even though this excitatory period is relatively short, and we are obviously not in fear. For one, I've often thought that I'm releasing adrenaline almost as if there is a "wiring" error and my hyper-excitatory state is mistaken for danger. How else to explain the exhaustion and associated physical conditions? Lately my thought process has taken me to consider adrenal exhaustion as a possible cause of my problems and a nervous system that needs to be seriously built up. I definitely believe that my overall predispostion to anxiety contributes to the intense excitatory state that precipitates POIS and that my body may just become too overloaded. I wish it weren't like this; HOWEVER, I'm hopeful we will find a variety of natural solutions to boost our immune system (for lack of a better term)or strengthen our nervous system and improve our lives. This forum is the best place to brain storm and share ideas no matter how crazy. Remember, it is the accidental discovery that often seems to lead the way for cures. My latest experiments will be with Valerian Root and Holy Basil extract, just to improve my sleep and reduce anxiety. I'll go from there.

Underwater: I also have an overly sensitive nervous system. I think that that and adrenal fatigue go together.
CFS is the primary cause for MY adrenal fatigue, and being struck by lightning in 1979 is one of the main causes
of my weak, and tweaked, nervous system.

What I've noticed over much time observing my exhaustion is that in my case both the anxiety and the depressive
symptoms are caused by being overly exhausted. When I have "more" energy, (relatively speaking for someone
who has CFS), then I DO NOT have any anxiety or depression. But if my adrenals are drained by even minimal over-
exertion, then my fatigue manifests as a kind of hyperactive anxious state. If I push further and drain myself more,
then I go down further into the depressive level. As soon as I take action to restore my adrenals with: regular meals
and an early bedtime, deliberate efforts to "chill out" and not push my energy, and supplements that aid in the pro-
cess, the anxiety and/or depressive symptoms disappear. At this point I can get on top of them in 2-3 days, as long
as there is no serious stress factors in my life at the time.

Adrenal boosting herbs like Siberian ginseng and schizandra, and adrenal boosting vitamins like Vitamin C and B5
(pantothenic acid) have been life savers for me. Also Holy Basil, Rhodiola, and phosphotidyl serine, which are all
cortisol lowering, have been helpful at certain times as well. For the nerves, one of the best things I've taken is a
mineral supplement called Macro Night, which is locally made, and extra magnesium--which has been fantastic for
my nerves as well. Lately I've also made a real effort to include yoga breathing exercises into my day--just remem-
bering to stop and take some deep breaths whenever I am stressing or rushing, has been so helpful to reprogram
my nervous system to not go into overdrive. There is nothing quite as basic and as powerful as deep breathing. In
our culture we have definitely lost touch with that.

[girlwind]

I think for all cases for you, if you fight supposed inflammation after orgasm, your condition might be better.

I wonder if some of the 12-hour non-steroidal anti-inflammatory preparations (NSAIDS) sold over-the-counter  - like *Aleve® with Naproxen Sodium - would work on POIS?

The problem with NSAIDS is that they can cause stomach problems for some people. And kidney problems as well.

"Adverse effects of NSAIDS

The widespread use of NSAIDs has meant that the adverse effects of these relatively safe drugs have become increasingly
prevalent. The two main adverse drug reactions (ADRs) associated with NSAIDs relate to gastrointestinal (GI) effects and
renal effects of the agents. These effects are dose-dependent, and in many cases severe enough to pose the risk of ulcer
perforation, upper gastrointestinal bleeding, and death, limiting the use of NSAID therapy. An estimated 10-20% of NSAID
patients experience dyspepsia, and NSAID-associated upper gastrointestinal adverse events are estimated to result in
103,000 hospitalizations and 16,500 deaths per year in the United States, and represent 43% of drug-related emergency
visits. Many of these events are avoidable; a review of physician visits and prescriptions estimated that unnecessary pre-
scriptions for NSAIDs were written in 42% of visits. (Green, 2001)"


"Renal ADRs
NSAIDs are also associated with a relatively high incidence of renal adverse drug reactions (ADRs). The mechanism of these
renal ADRs is due to changes in renal haemodynamics (blood flow), ordinarily mediated by prostaglandins, which are affect-
ed by NSAIDs. Prostaglandins normally cause vasodilation of the afferent arterioles of the glomeruli. This helps maintain
normal glomerular perfusion and glomerular filtration rate (GFR), an indicator of renal function. By blocking this prostaglan-
din mediated effect, NSAIDs ultimately may cause renal impairment."[/i]
[/i]

[SteveD]

I am grateful to have found this forum.

I have been working on this problem since May of 91 when I first felt it in me.
I have noticed, in myself and a few others, various stages of depletion prior to orgasm according to my level of sexual activity.

Anyone noticed that?

Once again, grateful to know that there are others who have had this experience.


Steve D.

[demografx]

NSAIDs Are Safe, Effective for Prostatectomy Pain

Study finds no increased risk of bleeding in patients given non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.

from
http://www.modernmedicine.com/modernmedicine/Modern+Medicine+Now/NSAIDs-Are-Safe-Effective-for-Prostatectomy-Pain/ArticleNewsFeed/Article/detail/570745

NOTE: This is not to invalidate Girlwind's NSAIDS points; it's just to provide more info for balance []

[demografx]

Hi, SteveD, welcome to The POIS thread of the Naked Science Forum!

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. MessageID: 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video. A first!

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/


Looking forward to more of your posts!

[demografx]

Hi, everybody, thanks for everything. It's been very nice making new friends here! - Demo

[demografx]

I have noticed, in myself and a few others, various stages of depletion prior to orgasm according to my level of sexual activity.

Anyone noticed that?

Steve, I'm not sure I understand. Can you elaborate just a little?

[martin88]

Happy holidays. Hi, everybody, thanks for everything. It's been very nice making new friends here! - Demo

Thank you Demo for these greetings.

Happy holidays to ALL pois sufferers!

[SteveD]

  My experience has been, for 18 years, that when I am orgasmic I feel "pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization”, I think what you would call ‘brain fog’ plus myalgia. It’s a stupor, a physical, not emotional, depression. I notice I lose my clarity, intuition, resilience and personal power in relationships . It takes two full days to recuperate just physically. The third day I call ‘blip day’ because intermittant desires to be sexual again begin to appear. The third day I call ‘cavalier day” because I am forgetting how poorly I felt four days before and begin to act carelessly. The fifth day is “I am ready day”.  Completely healed, I once more feel all the natural urges of a healthy man and have completely forgotten the first two days of suffering.
  The nefarious aspect of this illness, for me , is that about 1-1 ½ times out of 10 times I can be orgasmic with absolutely no consequences…

  This is what noticed first, but, over the years, I began to notice  other stages in the illness …and that’s what I’m curious to ask other folks on the blog site about...

   Secondly, I noticed that when I roll the sexual activity back to being non-orgasmically, but still genitally, sexual there seems to be considerably less loss of energy and the symptoms are dramatically reduced…but they are still present. Here, Waldinger’s proposition that there is an ‘allergic reaction’ occuring makes sense...so with less contact there is less reactive loss.
  Thirdly, having gained some ground on the illness, I thought I’d try to roll the sexual activity level back to hugging, kissing (without tongues), just to see what would happen. A whole new level of “wellness” appeared accompanied with a sense of what can best be described as a sense of bouyency.
  Fourthly, I rolled back to dating with absolutely no contact…I improved noticibly.
  Fifthly and finally, and this seems to infuriate people for some reason, I tried no dating and no thoughts of dating there was absolutely no sign of this illness anywhere to be found and it stayed that way for as long as I stayed that way.

  I have noticed this in dozen’s of other men and a few women and wanted to know if anyone here has noticed any of their own anticipatory stages to the onset of this debilitating disease.

Steve D.

[Counterpoints]

  The nefarious aspect of this illness, for me , is that about 1-1 ½ times out of 10 times I can be orgasmic with absolutely no consequences…

Yes, I have that too.  Except probably more like 3 out of 10 times.  I don't really understand your point in regards to relationship activity. For example, if you try "no dating and no thoughts of dating" is there "no sign of the illness" even when you have orgasm?  You can't indefinitely postpone orgasm, since there will be nocturnal emissions, etc.