[demografx]

I have recently finished my second bottle of Relora.  That means about two months.  During that time I have had an orgasm on average at least once a day. During that time I have also taken a Centrum Daily tablet every day.  The results:  I have not felt the effects of brain fog and axiety and total mental depression in two months.  However, I have noticed, as a single male who is not sexually active, that I still have emotional problems like loneliness and feeling down some days due to my own emotional problems.  These emotional problems were existant before I started taking Relora and are still there. 

Tarkington, congratulations on your successes with Relora! Did you also have POIS problems with fatigue/exhaustion?

Sorry to hear of the emotional problems. Maybe the improvements in POIS will free you up to better deal with other emotional problems. Are you seeing a therapist?

I just saw B_Jim's post come in same time as mine. Looks like he is saying something similar, Tarkington.

[tarkington]

Concerning fatigue and exhaustion: for three days after orgasm it was hard to get myself to exercise and do physical activity.  When I did do physical activity, sports, work out, etc. I felt like I wasn't "in the game" and almost physically weak. 

No therapist, but I might be overstating my emotional problems. I feel great but I am sure everyone in the world suffers from some emotional problems.  I was just trying to say that POIS is independent of some of those problems.

[SteveD]

Tarkington,

>>>>>

Concerning fatigue and exhaustion: for three days after orgasm it was hard to get myself to exercise and do physical activity.  When I did do physical activity, sports, work out, etc. I felt like I wasn't "in the game" and almost physically weak. 

>>><  I was just trying to say that POIS is independent of some of those problems.

That was my experience too, physically, I had the symptoms with POIS independent of my emotional health...Welcome


Steve D.

[Finally]

check this link on Guaifenesin.
http:fmnetnews,com/rescources-alert-product6.php

It works better like this : http://fmnetnews.com/resources-alert-product6.php

Thank you  Finally for this link, it's interesting, I had to remove "I strongly suggest" ! Sorry for my invasive theory. I was excessively passionate about this because since a very long time I believe that excessive phosphorus intake is one of the cause of my problems. If you check everything you eat you'll certainly find that phosphorus is in excess, at least according to nutrition books. Lack or excess of it is potentially harmful because it's important in the body (works with B vitamins, calcium, magnesium, zinc, involved in carbohydrate metabolism, ATP, constituent of the brain (phospholipids),...)

An other possible explanation about temporary benefits from eating only raw vegetables is the high intake of vitamins not destroyed by heat. Since carbs,proteins need vitamins for their metabolism, theoretically eating cooked food (containing carbs,proteins without vitamins) should be bad..

 I don't know about Guaifenesin but the high Phospherous symptoms are very similar to my long term effects.  How Phospherous retention would increase from Urgasm/sexual stimulation I don't know.  I have had an inclination away from high Phospherous vegetables toward low ones.   The only problem may be carbonated soda. 
My current program of Herbs/enzymes has worked remarkably well in breaking up the "cement" and restoring muscle fleibility.  I am being as abstinent as possible to prevent any setbacks.  It seems as if by restoring the energy levels, the body begins to heal itself?   
I avoid Calcium supplements as the last time I took them I could barely stand up.

[SteveD]

Hi Finally,

>>>>Hi SteveD, but my post address to other as well.
Everytime I eat a vegan diet I feel a peace in the mind, a better nervous system in some way difficult to describe, along with joy. But I'm not willing to do this for a long time however because this effect is not permanent.

I grew up on a cattle farm in Virginia so I love steak, but I've stayed away from it for 20 years, because I feel those effects that you mention above pretty consistently. In the last two weeks though I've added back daily red meat because I am iron anemic and B-12 deficient.


>>>>I am being as abstinent as possible to prevent any setbacks.

I am in the process of negotiating with my partner to be permanently non-orgasmic in our contact with each other. She is bitterly disappointed, so I am trying to make it up to her in other ways, like supporting her in taking care of herself around an abusive family and being there for her around challenges with her two children. It's not the same but I want her to know that I care and am not abandoning even though I am wanting to commit to  this sexual choice.

>>>  It seems as if by restoring the energy levels, the body begins to heal itself?   

That's currently the approach I am using today, an overall health approach.
Have the day off so I did 90" of meditation this morning, fasting until dinner/ but having 4 ounces of homegrown wheat grass, going to work out hard at the gym now, spent time on the phone being helpful to other folks, which , for me, is a very ameliorative process around the POIS symptoms.

Steve D.

[underwater]

Great Discussion Today:
Hi Demografx--
I too have considered Prolactin to be a possible "culprit" in POIS. I also have thought that quickly elevated Cortisol with a steep decline in Dopamine may also be implicated. Even Epinephrine. The great helper neurotransmitters (besides Dopamine) of Serotonin and Gaba may also play (or not play as it were) their respective parts in the so called recovery phase. I do know from my past experience with Benzodiazepines (taken at very low, subtherapeutic doses)that when my Gaba was increased I felt a lot better all around and during POIS. Unfortunately or fortunately as one may look at such issues, these "better periods" only lasted two months. But at least I knew that Gaba was involved and that I did feel pretty good.
If my body were not to experience tolerance/withdrawal, who knows, I might still be on them? But alas, they don't last long, and I don't like meds anyhow. Ironically, I had more energy on the Benzos than I do without. POIS, or the recovery phase after orgasm, which seem to be very closely relate, is appearing to be very complex, because the nervous system is not only responsive to orgasm but to overall psycho-sexual arousal.
I am pleased to see that there are already some remedies discussed here that may improve the condition of some individuals:Relora, Fenugreek, Garlic, Levitra etc.
There may never be a total "cure", but I for one would be ecstatic if I could reduce my symptoms to "mild discomfort" lasting less than one day. This is my goal.
Regarding Abraham Lincoln, I think he did the best he could given the pathetic state of pharmacology in the mid 19th century. He probably went to drug stores or took some home remedies and made things worse, who knows. For sure, knowledge regarding effective medicine was very little then (in Euroamerican culture) compared to the incredible ethnobotanical knowledge of, let's say, the indigenous indians of California. I still find it very intriguing that some members here at times will actually escape POIS. I also find it fascinating that the intensity and recovery time varies significantly. Thus, I intend to focus on all aspects of my changing physiology: Behavioral (stress, exercise sleep etc), Psychological (attitudes, emotions), Nutritional/Dietary (Foods and Supplements), Immune System, Medical Interventions (prescription drugs if any), Other Professional Interventions (Chiropractor, Acupuncture etc.)and await great discoveries on this Forum!!!!!!!!!
Of course if I can be so lucky as to come upon anything helpful, I will so comment.
I may be making some progress now with my current supplements, but I think I will wait a few weeks before commenting. I am presently avoiding "O" if I can, out of necessity.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Has any body read the book "science of orgasms" 
It talks a lot  how orgasms is centered on the brain.
It also focuses on dopamine, oxycotin, serotonin,prolactin as one of the main chemicals involved orgasms. 
The author mentioned gcortisol should not be byproduct of orgasm.
I recomend reading it since the big "O" seems determined to get us.

The book dose not mention anything similar to our situation other than cortisol can cause depression. 

[martin88]

  How Phospherous retention would increase from Urgasm/sexual stimulation I don't know.

It's always possible but I don't know how! I don't even know if it's a lack or an excess of it.
Phosphorus is probably involved in pois because I took a homeopathic remedy (phosphoric acid) and it was touching exactly the pois problem, specially in the mental symptoms, libido, depression, mental functions were definitely improved in pois. I was more able to communicate with other people. The side effect : not possible to fall asleep at night. I searched "phosphoric acid onanism" in google
Phosphoric-Acid
Debility from loss of animal fluids; bad effects of onanism; difficulties arising from rapid growth, grief, chagrin or care; great prostration, and nervous weakness; chronic diarrhoea.

I say it again for new people, I do not recommend to take homeopathic products if you're nervous. Not all are harmful but you'll probably have serious aggravations of your condition. That's my experience.

My current program of Herbs/enzymes has worked remarkably well in breaking up the "cement" and restoring muscle fleibility.  I am being as abstinent as possible to prevent any setbacks.  It seems as if by restoring the energy levels, the body begins to heal itself?   
I avoid Calcium supplements as the last time I took them I could barely stand up.

I know you took a lotof supplements at the same time. Do you have an idea which one was the best to achieve these results. It's great that you have some success !

[Animus]

Hi Friends,
I see this site has grown a lot since I last visited.
My theory has always been that my problems are in large part due to excessive semen loss.
Background:
I was fine with ejaculation until I began taking VigRX- which caused an increase in semen production and heightened sexual intensity. After VigRX I began having lots of problems, mental and physical.

I found an interesting site which backs up my theory on semen loss:

http://www.semenloss.info/node/6

I have had an oriectomy (both testicles removed) and am on a low dose of testosterone.  There was considerable improvement after this.
I am pursuing further surgery to remove the seminal vesicles, reduce the prostate, and cauterize the ejaculatory ducts. The aim is to achieve a minimum of semen production, and dry ejaculation.
I have this surgery planned for next week, and will update you on the results.

[SteveD]

Animus,


>>>>My theory has always been that my problems are in large part due to excessive semen loss.

I like that theory. The Hindu's believe that, as did the pre-Reformation Christians.

Florence Nightengale, The Beguines, The Shakers, Van Gogh, Newton, Tolstoy, Gandhi. All these folks had some serious concerns around sex and decided to stop.
Mohammed Ali wasn't sexual for 6 weeks before a title fight.
My favorite story though  is that JH Kellogg invented corn flakes to help in dulling the tastes to minimize potential sexual behavior...LOL


A good night to all

Steve D.

[Coreman]

Hi all,

I'd like to tell you that I've found something that really helps for me!

Its name is Alpha 20C. Manufactured by Sunrider.

Effects: my brain fog terminated, my good mood returned, as well as my physical strength. Together with my sense of humour and association skills.   

Administration:  I take 2,5-5 grams (one pack) right after an evening orgasm, and 5 grams(one pack) - in two portions - the day after.

It may not be placebo, owing to the situation I found it.
The way I discovered it: I felt under the weather thanks to a flu.A good friend of mine suggested taking it, in order to strengthen my immune system against the virus. I started to take it. Afterwards, a POIS episode started, and I took 5 g in the office, as a matter of course, against flu! Remarkably, my brain fog wore off in 10 minutes. I began to see the world much more clearly. My physical strength came back, too. I was over the moon!

So I started to take it directly against POIS. It helps a LOT.
(Important note! I also take Clonazepam, Wellbutrin, Ca+Mg, and Vitamin C, not solely Alpha 20C)     

I wonder if it would be useful for others. If somebody else takes a try, please leave feedback)

Conclusion: no conclusions. However, the "immunostimulant" character is more than interesting.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Coreman

[Limejuice]

So much positive news!

tarkington - how did you do it? I know, I know.  Are you still taking Swanson brand three times a day?  I'm going to try my bottle of it starting now.

Demo - nothing needs to be said for your management and leadership of this 'team'.  It would be all to fitting if your medical results found the culprit.

Coreman - Nice going!  I'll have to try it.

I've be chugging along in life still using fenugreek.  Something I've noticed after much use is that fenugreek suprising manages my blood sugar levels well.  Blood sugar is a problem area in POIS and may be the reason why fenugreek works for me.  Over and out.

[demografx]

So much positive news!

tarkington - how did you do it? I know, I know.  Are you still taking Swanson brand three times a day?  I'm going to try my bottle of it starting now.

Demo - nothing needs to be said for your management and leadership of this 'team'.  It would be all to fitting if your medical results found the culprit.

Coreman - Nice going!  I'll have to try it.

I've be chugging along in life still using fenugreek.  Something I've noticed after much use is that fenugreek suprising manages my blood sugar levels well.  Blood sugar is a problem area in POIS and may be the reason why fenugreek works for me.  Over and out.

Limejuice, thanks for the summary/update...and for the nice compliment!

[demografx]

SEMEN LOSS

Fascinating subject. I chased Taoist Master/Author Mantak Chia's "orgasmic sex w/o ejaculation" theories and methods for years, and they failed me. Maybe because his technique simply diverts semen to the bladder and is thereby still "lost"?

(Semen Loss theories - they are numerous - generally posit that when semen leaves man, it takes a portion of his own life, leading to POIS-like results. Conversely, semen retention builds strong, healthy, vigorous life.)

My two big questions
1. If the ancient wisdom of semen loss/retention is true, why doesn't everyone in the world suffer POIS?To my understanding, the opposite is true: many people experience rejuvenation following orgasmic sex.

2. Nocturnal emission. This is involuntary and still causes the agony of POIS? Could the "God", or the Universe - that of the ancients - who created this system be so cruel? Should we wear eye-blinders so that we will never be stimulated, even ever-so-slightly, during the day?

[demografx]

POIS, or the recovery phase after orgasm, which seem to be very closely related, is appearing to be very complex, because the nervous system is not only responsive to orgasm but to overall psycho-sexual arousal.

Hi, Underwater, interesting to see that some people here are affected by arousal. Thankfully, it doesn't affect me negatively.

There may never be a total "cure", but I for one would be ecstatic if I could reduce my symptoms to "mild discomfort" lasting less than one day. This is my goal.

For over 30 years, I gave up hope on that. But since this very active forum/thread began, I now believe it's possible for everyone.

Regarding Abraham Lincoln, I think he did the best he could given the pathetic state of pharmacology in the mid 19th century.

In my previous Lincoln quote, it seems to me that he believed willpower, not chemicals, was the way out of depression: "Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." (Emphasis mine) I agree, Underwater, it was pathetic back then; too bad we couldn't give the poor guy a retroactive-Prozac trial packet!

I intend to focus on all aspects of my changing physiology: Behavioral (stress, exercise sleep etc), Psychological (attitudes, emotions), Nutritional/Dietary (Foods and Supplements), Immune System, Medical Interventions (prescription drugs if any), Other Professional Interventions (Chiropractor, Acupuncture etc.)and await great discoveries on this Forum!!!!!!!!!
Of course if I can be so lucky as to come upon anything helpful, I will so comment.
I may be making some progress now with my current supplements, but I think I will wait a few weeks before commenting. I am presently avoiding "O" if I can, out of necessity.

Underwater, this is most comprehensive and inspirational! Best wishes!

[demografx]

It seems i was wrong and Pyropeach was right but i need to read it and read it again to have a good analysis.

Have you seen Pyropeach lately? Since I didn't see him, I "took over" his job of emailing listmembers who want it Dr Waldinger's POIS Study of 2002. Hope he's well.

[demografx]

ALPHA 20C/Sunrider

Very little I could find about the product, so I asked my pharmacology-lawyer friend, and will post his reply.

Meanwhile, I found this on a cancer forum about Sunrider. This is not to disparage Alpha 20C/Sunrider. I just feel obligated to report info on new POIS ideas when I see it.

from http://www.cancerforums.net/about10516.html
"What I don't like is that Sunrider's marketing scheme is basically a MLM [multi-level marketing]system where you either pay $30/yr to buy direct online or $140 one time to be a "distributor" and get a 40% discount ordering online. These products are also expensive. It costs me $400/mo for the products my wife and I use but I personally believe they are quality products I just wish they had a better way to go about marketing them. Basically I love the products but I'm not really interested in marketing them to others in the "Amway" fashion they try to employ."

[CertainlyPOIS]

srry about last post i was just testing to see if it works.   

On the Semen loss theory

I dont think is semen loss but probably orgasm because i had an orgasm without emission while i was sleeping. 
I knew this because of my dream and also waking up to check my surroudings for signs of emission, which there was none.
I was sure i had an orgasm when the previous day my daily life was superb i was socializing with ease, memory fine and thinking better than i expected but the next day all my nightmares returned. 

[CertainlyPOIS]

On Fenugreek
I used two tablets and got great night rest after orgasm.  I saw some improvements, brain fog dissapeared, tiredness improved , however socializaion and thinking problems where not changed at all.

[SteveD]

>>>>Hi, Underwater, interesting to see that some people here are affected by arousal. Thankfully, it doesn't affect me negatively.

I am affected by arousal, but not near to the degree that orgasm affects me.

I am affected by orgasm in that, last night, I experienced some seminal loss with my partner.
This morning I felt needy, hurt, sad, lonely (A meta-feeling I describe as grief, which is quite different from depression). I felt numbed, low self esteem, a tendency toward self pity, negativity, isolation and thinking I was different ( in a negative way).

I also felt physically exhausted but the overwhelming feeling was physical weakness.

I am able, through attitudinal shifts, to nurture myself through grief, and I did this morning, but the physical weakness is something different.
It's extremely common in therapy circles to ascribe these symptoms, after orgasm , to unresolved childhood abuse issues.
That's not my experience...

There is a neurochemical loss in my brain upon being orgasmic regardless of my emotional or physical wellness. I experienced that last night and reported it immediately to my partner. She, thankfully. has gotten to where she doesn't take POIS personally, and I am grateful.

I've gotten to where I accept that, this is fact, in me, and choose to look at it like money. I can save/invest money or spend it on vacation. Both are excellent activities, but I can't do both with the same money (read-sexual energy)

Thanks for the forum,

Steve D.