[Counterpoints]

I have recently finished my second bottle of Relora.  That means about two months.  During that time I have had an orgasm on average at least once a day. During that time I have also taken a Centrum Daily tablet every day.  The results:  I have not felt the effects of brain fog and axiety and total mental depression in two months.  However, I have noticed, as a single male who is not sexually active, that I still have emotional problems like loneliness and feeling down some days due to my own emotional problems.  These emotional problems were existant before I started taking Relora and are still there. 

Great news Tarkington.  I understand what you mean.  My POIS symptoms seem mostly independent of my emotional state.  (I say "mostly", because being in a good mood always tends to diminish other problems, slightly.  But sometimes I've been in a very bad mood, and still been completely free of POIS!).

How long did it take you to see dramatic improvement with Relora?  I have been taking Relora about 3x/day (250 mg) for 2 weeks.  I've also been taking about 300 mg of phosphytidylserine per day.  And 5 mg bisoprolol/day (beta-blocker).  Plus some B6, and Ashwaganda.  So a lot of cortisol reducing supplements!

[martin88]

An interesting website from University of Maryland, talking about supplements and complementary medicine. http://www.umm.edu/altmed/

[demografx]

On the Semen loss theory

I dont think is semen loss but probably orgasm because i had an orgasm without emission while i was sleeping. 
I knew this because of my dream and also waking up to check my surroudings for signs of emission, which there was none.
I was sure i had an orgasm when the previous day my daily life was superb i was socializing with ease, memory fine and thinking better than i expected but the next day all my nightmares returned. 

CCc, this is very interesting. I experienced this and researched it and it was called "brain orgasm". But brain orgasms never led to POIS for me. But brain orgasms w/nocturnal emissions did.

[demografx]

On Fenugreek
I used two tablets and got great night rest after orgasm.  I saw some improvements, brain fog dissapeared, tiredness improved , however socializaion and thinking problems where not changed at all.

Really appreciate the fenugreek update!

[demografx]

I've also been taking about 300 mg of phosphytidylserine per day.  And 5 mg bisoprolol/day (beta-blocker).  Plus some B6, and Ashwaganda.  So a lot of cortisol reducing supplements!

Just curious, CP, besides Relora, how did you come up with this protocol to reduce cortisol? Thanks.

[SteveD]

Tried Relora for the first time four hours ago.

Felt headachy, heart palpitations, speedy, then sleepy, relaxed/sedated, libido diminution and a little druggy/high.

Steve D.

[demografx]

Quote from: demografx on 28/10/2008 14:42:35

IMPORTANT: ...RELORA - PLEASE READ!
From my pharmacology-lawyer friend:

RELORA

"Relora is a plant extract. Because the actual active ingredients are not discernible, there's no way to know what the interactions with other drugs might be. Therefore, I would recommend not taking it with Rx drugs,or with OTC drugs either.

This is what the manufacturer says: [Note the elevation in BP]

'side effects also include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure.'  "

Limejuice (and others) - always a good idea to check out Relora - and other meds/supplements - with your healthcare professional advisor.

[I think the "higher blood pressure" note was directed at me since I take blood pressure meds -Demo]

Relora is also mentioned/discussed in these forum posts:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=relora+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

[demografx]

Curcuma increases cortisol.

Thanks, B_Jim, I guess some people are low in cortisol?

[SteveD]

Going to couples therapy again today. My partner is very challenged by the idea of letting go of me being orgasmic, however, a number of things in her life seem to be improving, as does my life, when I let go of the desire for me to be orgasmic. There seems to be something about intentionality here. Even in NE's. I used to feel bad about being orgasmic in my sleep, until I realized that being orgasmic, when not induced physically , is simply another feeling. I stopped trying to control it, and let myself feel that way, as I do all my feelings. I still had POIS symptoms but they were 10-15% as potent.

[tarkington]

So much positive news!

tarkington - how did you do it? I know, I know.  Are you still taking Swanson brand three times a day?  I'm going to try my bottle of it starting now.

Well, I miraculously found this forum and knew that I was suffering from the same problems following orgasm.  Then I read the forum looking for anything to help.  Relora and seaweed were the suggestions that stood out to me. They seemed safe (I am not taking any other medications) because both were natural.  I never tried the seaweed because Relora worked so well. 

I started taking Relora for three days (three times a day) and had an orgasm with litle to no symptoms.  Following another recommendation, at the same time I started taking daily vitamins.  Since Relora does work so well for me, and Relora is a cortisol decreaser, I am assuming that the only issue I had after orgasm was a large increase in cortisol. And since my previous symptoms were insomnia (the same night), brain fog, mental anxiety, and just feeling terrible depression with no social skills (for three days), I assume that cortisol was the cause.  My cortisol levels peaked the day of orgasm and gradually decreased for three days until back to normal.

Also since Fenugreek is supposed to increase cortisol and Relora decreases, perhaps either Relora or Fenugreek are the solution for the brain fog and mental problems.  It's only a matter of whether your body increases or decreases cortisol after orgasm.  If Fenugreek works then maybe its because immediately after orgasm those people have a large decrease in cortisol with the same effects as a large increase in cortisol (that doesn't make sense to me... how can a low amount have the same effects as a high amount) 

Just throwing out my opinion and thinking aloud... any ideas?

[tarkington]

......  My cortisol levels peaked the day of orgasm and gradually decreased for three days until back to normal.

That is not a fact just a theory.  I have not had any tests done.

[demografx]

ALPHA 20C/Sunrider

Just received an email reply from my pharmacology-lawyer friend:

" [Demo], Alpha20C sounds dubious. "

I trust him.

[demografx]

Tarkington the problem is some of us  have brain fog the second day (the worst day of pois). That's a big difference.

Well, my typical pois timing was like this :
First hours after orgasm : chills, shortness of breath (high cortisol?)
Some hours later : diarrheas
8-10 hours later : fever and flu-like symptoms
2nd day : brain fog/derealization.

B_Jim, I forgot: did your POIS have exhaustion/fatigue component?

[demografx]

......  My cortisol levels peaked the day of orgasm and gradually decreased for three days until back to normal.

That is not a fact just a theory.  I have not had any tests done.

Tarkington, thank you! Very credible theory!

[demografx]

It seems Dr Waldinger have just found explanation for PSAS. After, PE gene, he's on fire : maybe an explanation for Pois soon  []

Thanks, B_Jim, I just sent Dr. Waldinger a congratulatory email.

[demografx]

I still had POIS symptoms [with nocturnal emissions] but they were 10-15% as potent.

You're very fortunate. Mine were 100% POIS-potent.

[martin88]

Curcuma increases cortisol.
This spice seems to best one the best antioxydant anti-inflammatory natural supplement and have effect on immunity and intestine. It might even have effect on Alzheimer disease.

Thanks a lot for this B_Jim(curcuma increases cortisol). I often eat curcuma. On the other side curcuma (turmeric) protects against cancer according to this researcher from an university and hospital. Also since it was mentionned here to avoid foods like brocoli etc (cruciferous) for thyroid, please check this list of foods against cancer at the bottom of this page :
http://preventioncancer.uqam.ca/Foods_cancer_Nutratherapy_EN.htm#Nutrimeds

http://preventioncancer.uqam.ca/Foods_cancer_presentation_EN.htm

[martin88]

according to an ebay web site (!) Alpha 20c contains this :

ALPHA 20 C
Booster for the Immune System (T-cells)
Ingredients: Chinese White Flower, Paris Herb, Scutellaria Herb, Dandelion, Bai-Mao Root, Imperate Root.

I know scutellaria is supposed to be good for nervous system. When I eat raw Dandelion leaves it can sometimes increase my energy (most likely when I'm sexually abstinent). It's a bitter herb (which have a special property around liver)

I don't know the other plants. It's said on the sunrider site it's plant for "wood condition", which (I think) is associated with the concept of liver in chinese medicine.

It's for me as dubious as other supplements we mention here but it can be very interesting if someone has information about a problem with this supplement.

[SteveD]

I still had POIS symptoms [with nocturnal emissions] but they were 10-15% as potent.

You're very fortunate. Mine were 100% POIS-potent.

I feel very fortunate in that regard. My hope is to commit to letting go of intentional orgasm permanently and begin to work on decreasing the debilitating, but much less so, effects of non-orgasmic sexuality. I also would like to start, slowly, developing other aspects of my life (career, education, finances) as I have devoted myself almost exclusively to solving the POIS symptoms the last 20 months. Just the fellowship here, plus the recent healing from anemia (caused by experiments to eliminate POIS) has given me more confidence, and I am grateful to everyone for their  personal contributions

[SteveD]

Martin

>>>>It's for me as dubious as other supplements we mention here

My anemia is getting better with the use of iron and B-12 doctor recommended supplements, but now that it is, I'm adding back daily wheatgrass. Several people on this blog site mention that they are using an overall approach to strengthening the responsiveness of their central nervous system. Since we don't know what causes this , or what the therapy for it is, this approach makes common sense to me. I have never found a food supplement more helpful to  my overall health...It's a lot of work to grow, though!