[demografx]

2002 POIS Research Study

The first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If anyone wants a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

[demografx]

There are definitely proving to be multiple stop gap "remedies" for our multiple orgasm issues. Multiple puns intended.  [] []
I think it's great that we have so many variations on the theme---so many bright people who are willing to risk talking about POIS and experimenting on themselves with whatever they feel will work best for them. Leaving the door open for personal investigation and continued experimentation is going to serve everybody's interest in the long run.

Girlwind, that's a beautiful description of the spirit, intent and hope of this forum!

[SteveD]

Thanks for the support gang,

Today I'm grateful that I don't feel the:

pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization,
depression,
self pity,
numbness,
disconnection,
grief,
isolation,
or despair,

associated with POIS.

It's a new day and I plan to look at it differently...

[demografx]

This is a random post amist good discussion.  But I want to know if anyone here is from Colorado like I.  It would be beneficial and more convincing for two suffers to work with the same doctor.  Many Docs are hesitant to take time studying one case of an unknown disease.  My doc actually suggested this!

Any CO folks here?

LJ, I could be dead wrong, but is it possible that your doctor is just not real cooperative or friendly to this malady? Many just don't want to be bothered. Or feel at bottom that POIS is really psychosomatic. I'm working with an endo right now who simply seems interested. Of course, I may just be lucky, too. As was suggested here, giving my endo a copy of Dr. Waldinger's paper seemed to help establish an air of medical credibility.

[demografx]

Steve, FWIW, as I mentioned on earlier posts, I chased the Taoist theories and methods for years to no avail. Girlwind has too
(I shouldn't speak for her, but I do recall a couple posts she made to that effect).

I agree with the Taoist idea of refraining from orgasm, though I was never very successful at the Mantak Chia technique
of "aborted orgasm." Just to clarify the difference. Or maybe I just did the Mantak Chia method wrong... Either way the aborted
orgasm technique didn't work for me, but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at.  Except of course, when my
dreams interfere with that agenda.

Yes, thank you for clarifying that, Girlwind. Mantak Chia's Taoist-based male-sexuality-version of "orgasm without ejaculation" techniques are what I strenuously learned and successfully executed, but they didn't work for me. After what I learned from so many male POIS sufferers here, I don't think his techniques can work for men, generally, since (1) POIS is probably not simply a reaction to semen loss and (2) semen still leaves the body, eventually, it only gets diverted temporarily to the bladder. Wish I could get my $49.99 back for his books []

[SteveD]

but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at. 

Yes, thank you for clarifying that, Girlwind. Mantak Chia's Taoist-based male-sexuality-version of "orgasm without ejaculation" techniques are what I strenuously learned and successfully executed, but they didn't work for me since  POIS is probably not simply a reaction to semen loss
[/quote]

Demo/Girlwind,

I'm not sure what is being delineated here, but curious to know....

 "but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at."... I understand. For the last two days, at my request my partner and I have refrained from not only genital contact, but also from potentially arousing hugging and kissing, because I really wanted to be as present energetically tonight at a show I did, and I wanted to use all my energy for the performance. It worked very well and I was at the best I could be, all other conditions being the same.

POIS, for me, may not be not be about seminal loss, but it does happens when I lose semen...and four stages before. I rolled back two of the stages the last two days and was pleasantly rewarded...

I'm no saint, and after the show I made love with my partner, non-orgasmically, for three hours....and I'm okay. So, "refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at," is something I understand and works for me, too.

[SteveD]

Exercise and playing music have always helped me. When I had a particularly bad period back in 97/98, I wrote quite a bit of music (using guitar), and it helped me relax immensely. I even had a sound studio for awhile, and making music can be quite therapeutic.
Abstinence has always been my most effective strategy for succor.

I think the "joylessness" of others' reactions might be some version of fear. Health issues with a baffling tinge to them (like POIS
and CFS) sometimes freak people out, in ways that they aren't even aware of. I'm happy to hear that you are celebrating in spite
of that. Hallelujah to creativity! Music and painting have been my saving grace as well. And new shoes can be a good thing too.  []

Girlwind/Underwater,

Thanks for the support,

Steve

[John21 (OP)]

I am amazed at how many of us are musically inclined. On a previous post it was noticed that many of us played instruments. Demo was one, I forget the rest...now SteveD as well. What do you think, strange coincidence?

[girlwind]

I am amazed at how many of us are musically inclined. On a previous post it was noticed that many of us played instruments. Demo was
one, I forget the rest...now SteveD as well. What do you think, strange coincidence?

Yes, we have A LOT of MUSICALLY INCLINED people here. We've brought this up before on the forum.
I think the list includes: Demo, SteveD, Martin88, Counterpoints, Underwater and me. There might be
more. I think we kidded about starting a band at one point, and Demo even created a set list.

[Limejuice]

OK.  Nothing left to do then start a band.

P.rofessional O.rchestrated I.nstrument S.ymphony
Starring:

Demographx -
Girlwind -
SteveD -
Martin88 -
Counterpoints -
Underwater -
LimeJuice - on the Bass or Cello.

[SteveD]

OK.  Nothing left to do then start a band.

P.rofessional O.rchestrated I.nstrument S.ymphony
Starring:

How about "The Too hot for Sex" band? ...Catchy

[martin88]

It seems that FenuGreek and Maca which I take 3x/day along with Garden of life Restore(FYI Ultra also works ) has the greatest effect on the CFS/Fibromyalgia symptoms. 
Yohimbe and Horney goat weed seem to be more of a secondary help in the formula.  Works good taken with fruit juice(berries Pomegranite etc)   
I also take about 50mg. od DHEA.  When I took it alone there wasn't a great effect. 

I haven't had an orgasm in 2 months. The physical desire goes down as long as there isn't too much stress to deal with.  Kind of keeping my mind on other things as much as possible.  Having good results and progress keeps positive mental energy.   

I took Maca a long time ago and there was no improvement.(maybe a bad brand..). You're able to stay 2 months without orgasm while taking horny goat, it's not what is written about this plant ! As I said before I'll try fenugreek.

[SteveD]

I've been noticing strangeness in my life as I transition to post-looking-for-a-solution-to-POIS. I'm feeling quite susceptible and vulnerable to some pleasant, but self destructive, dark urges I have. I think that's because my guard is down. I found POIS so difficult to solve that it kept other less destructive things at bay while I was working on it. I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense to me.

Also, not having to debate in my head whether to have an orgasm or not on a moment-per-moment-during- the-event basis frees me to notice some more subtle things. When I am being non-orgasmically sexual I get jolts of neurochemicals that are hypnotic and intoxicating, almost opiate quality alterations. These are extremely physically pleasurable. That's the good news. The bad news is that there is a residual, damping, if not debilitating effect. Certainly the extreme mental clarity and dexterousness are virtually annihilated....and I ain't near as funny! 

[demografx]

I think Henri [Honoré] de Balzac might have been right, perhaps.

"The mother's heart is the child's schoolroom," "A lover always thinks of his mistress first and himself second; with a husband it runs the other way," "The more one judges, the less one loves."

(Just giving you a hard time, Steve [])

[demografx]

I've been noticing strangeness in my life as I transition to post-looking-for-a-solution-to-POIS. I'm feeling quite susceptible and vulnerable to some pleasant, but self destructive, dark urges I have. I think that's because my guard is down. I found POIS so difficult to solve that it kept other less destructive things at bay while I was working on it. I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense to me.

Also, not having to debate in my head whether to have an orgasm or not on a moment-per-moment-during- the-event basis frees me to notice some more subtle things. When I am being non-orgasmically sexual I get jolts of neurochemicals that are hypnotic and intoxicating, almost opiate quality alterations. These are extremely physically pleasurable. That's the good news. The bad news is that there is a residual, damping, if not debilitating effect. Certainly the extreme mental clarity and dexterousness are virtually annihilated....and I ain't near as funny! 

Steve, forgive me for being presumptuous, but you sound just like I did when I thought I had POIS solved.

A CRASHING disappointment arrived in the form of unwanted release.

I honestly wish you the best. I would just hate to see the same thing happen!

[SteveD]

I think Henri [Honoré] de Balzac might have been right, perhaps.

"The mother's heart is the child's schoolroom," "A lover always thinks of his mistress first and himself second; with a husband it runs the other way," "The more one judges, the less one loves."

(Just giving you a hard time, Steve [])

I don't know that quote,
Balzac is quoted as saying after making love to his beloved "There goes another novel". Implying of course that he could be sexual or write a book, but he could not do both with the same energy.
I'm not in that league when it comes to talent, but I do know that I felt enthusiasm for my work, which in part was prepping to teach Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) tomorrow and hunting for a gig in a difficult district here in town. It's little stuff, but it's meaningful to me.

[demografx]

I think we kidded about starting a band at one point, and Demo even created a set list.

Quote from: martin88 on 27/09/2008 00:51:42
Four musicians, we're not so far to create the pois band!

Quote from: demografx on 27/09/2008
POIS BAND, that's hilarious, Martin! I can just see it now, songs like "I'm So Tired" (actual Beatles song) or "I Love You But Let's Not Sleep Together" []

More POIS songs?:
So Tired - Ozzy Osbourne
Tired Of Being Alone - Al Green
Tired Of Being Blonde - Carly Simon
Tired of England - Dirty Pretty Things
Tired Of Sex - Weezer
Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks
Tired Of You - Foo Fighters

[demografx]

...prepping to teach Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) tomorrow and hunting for a gig in a difficult district here in town. It's little stuff, but it's meaningful to me.

Hardly sounds like "little stuff"!

[SteveD]

Steve, forgive me for being presumptuous, but you sound just like I did when I thought I had POIS solved.

A CRASHING disappointment arrived in the form of unwanted release.

I honestly wish you the best. I would just hate to see the same thing happen!

A crashing disappointment would be very, very easy to engage by simply going over the line and being orgasmic. I like Girlwind's thought about that though

Quote from: girlwind on 07/01/2009 21:27:55
"but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at"

...but, hey if I knew everything I wouldn't be here now would I?

[SteveD]

...prepping to teach Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) tomorrow and hunting for a gig in a difficult district here in town. It's little stuff, but it's meaningful to me.

Hardly sounds like "little stuff"!

You know it's getting human and 'normal' for me. I have had to employ 'divine' tools to help myself solve a totally incomprehensible illness, for me, including having a 96 year old Catholic, virgin, monk be my primary mentor six days a week, for 10 years. I really liked the purity of aspiring to 'holiness' so this gray area of non-orgasmic sexuality is like wearing a shirt that's brand new. You know it's going to fit, it just feels too tight out of the box ...and you think you might look like an idiot in it.

PS Another POIS band tune "Let's don't do it in the road" , or less rudely "Why can't we be friends?"