[underwater]

An interesting phenomenon, perhaps nothing: 1)I often get mini panic attacks in sleep that awaken me, but NEVER have I experienced a euphoria type of episode. This was very strange, but very welcome. This was two nights ago. I learned that, perhaps, our chemistry can be reversible. 2) Last night, during sleep, I should have definitely had an NE (all sensations clearly dictated it). In the past, it would have been 100 out of 100 certain. But I didn't. In both cases, it seeems to me (perhaps erroneously) that there may be other parts of my brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way". I'm reticent to share this, but I think the give and take of this forum is a very effective tool for a therapeutic/psychiatric type of interactive catharsis that may be in itself a healing instrument.
 

[girlwind]

An interesting phenomenon, perhaps nothing: 1)I often get mini panic attacks in sleep that awaken me, but NEVER have I experienced a euphoria type of episode. This was very strange, but very welcome. This was two nights ago. I learned that, perhaps, our chemistry can be reversible. 2) Last night, during sleep, I should have definitely had an NE (all sensations clearly dictated it). In the past, it would have been 100 out of 100 certain. But I didn't. In both cases, it seeems to me (perhaps erroneously) that there may be other parts of my brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way". I'm reticent to share this, but I think the give and take of this forum is a very effective tool for a therapeutic/psychiatric type of interactive catharsis that may be in itself a healing instrument.

Underwater: I'm not getting the gist of what you're saying. Can you please explain what you mean by: "other parts of my
brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way". It sounds intriguing and I want to understand.

[underwater]

Girlwind:
Brain/Nervous system functioning to offer "another way"--
With POIS and with my GAD there are triggers causing my nervous system to respond negatively. There are almost always "delays" between the triggering event and my symptoms, whether these be POIS onset or Anxiety onset. For many years, I have helplessly watched and felt the overwhelming biochemistry slowly assert its power. I've always wondered if there may be a volitional intervention, perhaps willpower or acceptance that could combat, reduce, or rid the symptoms.  BUT lately, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a subconscious component that may help. Not metaphysical, but "another" real, internal, healing action. Almost like your own psychotherapy, but one that is not controlled by our neocortex, but by an older part of our brain/nervous system. I do submit, however, that our neocortex may communicate with our older brain/nervous system, the one that controls these initial biochemical releases. If we could get in touch with this older brain, we may have some influence on our chemistry. We all know about the left/right duality of "intelligence". Perhaps there is an UP/DOWN connectivity that will allow us to affect our "ancient animal responses"?  This "another way" may be our cathartic, therapeutic, interactive, creative efforts to connect our "neurotic new brain" to our older, instinctive brain, the one that seems (to me) may control these chemical neurotransmsitters. It is the "successful act" of "getting in touch with ourselves" (I hate to use this cliche), and then letting the part of our brain/nervous system take its own corrective action. Do we have this "self correcting capacity" at the neurochemical level? Girlwind, I don't know where this capacity may reside, that's why I used the term "another way", a process rather than necessarily a location. I've struggled over the years with exercise, diet, breathing, art etc, but maybe I've been too focused on me as a body and incapable of relaxing enough to allow natural healing. This very act of responding to your question may be an example of a catharsis, a communicative act, perhaps a creative act that may assist in this process. Take Care----------------

[demografx]

Thanks Demo for email update

Any time, B_Jim : - )

[demografx]

Again a major finding Demografx, however I'm not so happy to hear about this. I wouldn't have expected such a problem. Is it really the cause for pois, the treatment will say it if any.
Your pois started a long time ago, do you have this since the beginning... What is amazing is that your usual doctors didn't find this. It was a simple blood test. You had to ask yourself for a prolactin test! I can't believe this. Good luck for the next steps.

Martin, thank you, you're too kind!

Sorry that I've taken  longer than usual to reply to you, I have been visiting family recently, without using my laptop, and my cellphone internet doesn't allow for forum posting here.

Until further testing, and then seeing what happens in my next POIS-cycle, it's difficult to say whether the prolactinemia (high prolactin) is from POIS or not.

But POIS is the reason I am seeing this doctor, and POIS is what he is looking for.

You ask a very good question, why hasn't prolactinemia been discovered before. I suspect it is because GP's (general practioner MD's) don't normally test hormones in depth. THAT is why I went to an endocrinologist! And it is only because of this forum that I would have thought to see an endocrinologist. Thank you for asking!

[demografx]

I'm sorry I don't contribute much to the discussion. I'm afraid I'm unable to "keep up" with the high level of pioneering and experimenting everybody on here provides on such a regular basis. I'm still reading this and checking for new posts every day, though. Let me know if there's anything I can do to contribute here (I know about the questionaire, of course!).

Longwalkhome, you are certainly contributing!! And your current fenugreek experimentation and reporting is MOST helpful!!

I look forward to your next post. And I'm sure others are looking for your next post, too!

[underwater]

Girlwind--
You mention "resistance" in reference to sometimes not being able to go to the core of the feeling. This is how I often feel. I used the word relax, in that I often just can't get there or hold it if I do. When I can remove this resistance or obtain this relaxation, I  feel  an envelope of warmth and serenity coming over me. This is rare, but I get it enough to know that it is quite desireable. I'll get this at times in the water, at times after a satisfying meal, at times with a pleasant surprise, at times for no reason. What's interesting for me is that I can feel this coming on and taking hold as a positive and desireable physiological experience, just the opposite of the negative and debilitating response to POIS and GAD. That is why I know that POIS is significantly reduced if it occurs during this serene envelope, but worsened if during a GAD episode. I hope that if I can remove most resistance to obtain my maximum relaxation, GAD will disappear. This has happened before and my assumption is that it will happen again (I believe it is in its end period now). I hope. As far as POIS is concerned, I want to take my "relaxation/removal of resistance" to new, deeper levels. Perhaps this will significantly reduce POIS. And of course I will continue to experiment with supplements and herbal medicines etc. These efforts are always made to improve my overall health and my psychological responses to stress.

[demografx]

An interesting phenomenon, perhaps nothing: 1)I often get mini panic attacks in sleep that awaken me, but NEVER have I experienced a euphoria type of episode. This was very strange, but very welcome. This was two nights ago. I learned that, perhaps, our chemistry can be reversible. 2) Last night, during sleep, I should have definitely had an NE (all sensations clearly dictated it). In the past, it would have been 100 out of 100 certain. But I didn't. In both cases, it seeems to me (perhaps erroneously) that there may be other parts of my brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way". I'm reticent to share this, but I think the give and take of this forum is a very effective tool for a therapeutic/psychiatric type of interactive catharsis that may be in itself a healing instrument.

Underwater, I don't know if this is related, but long ago I stumbled on what some sleep researchers/writers have referred to as "brain orgasm". It has exactly ALL the properties of an NE, but WITHOUT the ultimately POIS-debilitating PHYSICAL RELEASE of an NE!

The mind "thinks" that it is having an orgasm, but it is not actually doing that; it is a VIVID experience in the dream/imaginary state. I don't believe it's possible to occur during the waking state. And it's difficult to fully describe.

I was never able to "create" a nocturnal brain-only orgasm, but the more I read about it...it just happened.

To my way of thinking, "brain orgasm" is a temporary - perhaps even permanent for some people - POIS cure: it allows the body/mind to periodically express itself sexually -  - which I believe it really needs to do - - but without the horrendous/horrific consequences of POIS!

[Finally]

It seems that FenuGreek and Maca which I take 3x/day along with Garden of life Restore(FYI Ultra also works ) has the greatest effect on the CFS/Fibromyalgia symptoms. 
Yohimbe and Horney goat weed seem to be more of a secondary help in the formula.  Works good taken with fruit juice(berries Pomegranite etc)   
I also take about 50mg. od DHEA.  When I took it alone there wasn't a great effect. 

I haven't had an orgasm in 2 months. The physical desire goes down as long as there isn't too much stress to deal with.  Kind of keeping my mind on other things as much as possible.  Having good results and progress keeps positive mental energy.   

I took Maca a long time ago and there was no improvement.(maybe a bad brand..). You're able to stay 2 months without orgasm while taking horny goat, it's not what is written about this plant ! As I said before I'll try fenugreek.

I take a 7:1 concentrate(Paradise Herbs) which is equal to 1750 MG of whole root 3xday.  Iyt seems to have a synergy with others especially Fenugreek.
Horney Goat doesn't have that effect on me(surprising) although I haven't had a NE in a couple years.  I used to have a lot but stopped taking pian relievers(aspirin Ibupofen)  later in day seemed to help.  Getting older(50) might have a lot to do wih it.  Of course cancelling Cinemax also helped.
For me the 1st two weeks are the toughest then the strength of the urge  lessens.   

[underwater]

Demo--
Thanks for the information--
It was strange "not" to have an NE--
Perhaps it will (not)happen again, who knows--
A panic episode usually precedes my POIS episode--In this case, obviously, no POIS but no panic!!! That's why I'm feeling pretty good right now; but disappointments always await. However, I am going to try to remain optimistic. I will continue to do any little thing that might help, but most of all optimism. For most of the last 20 years I've had an anxious attitude about POIS, like it's always there; when is it coming next?. Now, I'm going to try to be positive and try to relax all the time, and if it happens, it will happen without the backdrop of dread. [While of course, I continue to experiment with herbs, supplements etc.]

[girlwind]

Girlwind--
You mention "resistance" in reference to sometimes not being able to go to the core of the feeling. This is how I often feel. I used the word relax, in that I often just can't get there or hold it if I do. When I can remove this resistance or obtain this relaxation, I  feel  an envelope of warmth and serenity coming over me. This is rare, but I get it enough to know that it is quite desireable.
As far as POIS is concerned, I want to take my "relaxation/removal of resistance" to new, deeper levels. Perhaps this will significantly reduce POIS.

Underwater--I think we're describing something similar, although my experience is more than relaxation. It is like a
shift in perception of my reality, with a relaxation accompanying it. The key for me has been investigation of my mind
to see what it's telling me (behind my back!), and then asking myself if it is REALLY TRUE. So many times, to my utter
amazement, my mind is yapping away about crap that holds so little truth, that it makes me laugh out loud. And with
that moment of realization (which can be VERY TRICKY to get to) comes the aaahhhhh--the relaxation response. In a
way, it makes me feel like my mind is a figment of my imagination--which it actually is!

[underwater]

Girlwind--
Beautifully articulated--
You capture my state of being also--

[demografx]

I take a 7:1 concentrate(Paradise Herbs) which is equal to 1750 MG of whole root 3xday.  Iyt seems to have a synergy with others especially Fenugreek.
Horney Goat doesn't have that effect on me(surprising) although I haven't had a NE in a couple years.  I used to have a lot but stopped taking pian relievers(aspirin Ibupofen)  later in day seemed to help.  Getting older(50) might have a lot to do wih it.  Of course cancelling Cinemax also helped.
For me the 1st two weeks are the toughest then the strength of the urge  lessens.   

Finally, I appreciate your reporting your regimen and your experiences!

[demografx]

TENSION RELIEVER

It's been 6 weeks. Enough! Maybe that's the right length of cycle interval for me. I do feel better, more energized "in spite of". Hope it lasts.

Next endo visit/more labwork is in 3 days.

As always, this place is hopping with ideas!

Thanks, everyone!

[demografx]

Demo--
Thanks for the information--
It was strange "not" to have an NE--
Perhaps it will (not)happen again, who knows--
A panic episode usually precedes my POIS episode--In this case, obviously, no POIS but no panic!!! That's why I'm feeling pretty good right now; but disappointments always await. However, I am going to try to remain optimistic. I will continue to do any little thing that might help, but most of all optimism. For most of the last 20 years I've had an anxious attitude about POIS, like it's always there; when is it coming next?. Now, I'm going to try to be positive and try to relax all the time, and if it happens, it will happen without the backdrop of dread. [While of course, I continue to experiment with herbs, supplements etc.]

Underwater...what a winning philosophy you have! I'm copying you []

[martin88]

Martin, thank you, you're too kind!
Sorry that I've taken  longer than usual to reply to you, I have been visiting family recently, without using my laptop, and my cellphone internet doesn't allow for forum posting here.
Until further testing, and then seeing what happens in my next POIS-cycle, it's difficult to say whether the prolactinemia (high prolactin) is from POIS or not.
But POIS is the reason I am seeing this doctor, and POIS is what he is looking for.You ask a very good question, why hasn't prolactinemia been discovered before. I suspect it is because GP's (general practioner MD's) don't normally test hormones in depth. THAT is why I went to an endocrinologist! And it is only because of this forum that I would have thought to see an endocrinologist. Thank you for asking!

I thought you were just depressive with your results, but in fact you just enjoyed about them ! This is good news !

This is not the first time this is happening like that. I know someone (old) who went several times to a MD for a pain in the stomach after an effort and nothing was done. One year later he had to ask himself for a cardiac test. MDs found he had had an attack, and kept him for cardiac surgery.
So it’s good to have an other advice sometimes.
As you said this forum can find something, we have the proof. This is very encouraging for all of us.

[martin88]

I take a 7:1 concentrate(Paradise Herbs) which is equal to 1750 MG of whole root 3xday.  Iyt seems to have a synergy with others especially Fenugreek.
Horney Goat doesn't have that effect on me(surprising) although I haven't had a NE in a couple years.  I used to have a lot but stopped taking pian relievers(aspirin Ibupofen)  later in day seemed to help.  Getting older(50) might have a lot to do wih it.  Of course cancelling Cinemax also helped.
For me the 1st two weeks are the toughest then the strength of the urge  lessens.   

Thank you very much Finally for these precisions. For sure the age does not help with libido. I’m losing a litle bit every year. Also I noticed some differents reactions when I'm taking the same supplements I took when I was younger: Sometimes better efficiency and other times weaker effect than before. It would be very interesting to understand why aspirin gives you more NEs.

[CertainlyPOIS]

It seems there is an interesting link between Iron metabolism and immunity, Pois and dopamine. I'm not sure, it is just a start of theory...

- Orgasm seems to cause autoimmune disorder for us (especially if flulike symptoms).
- Then it causes inflammation and increases IL-6.
 (Demo's physician friend thinks IL6 are linked to Pois)
- IL-6 increases hepcidin Here and here. 
- Hepcidin decreases iron levels (its job)
- Low Iron level decreases catecholamines metabolism (Iron is cofactor of tyrosine hydroxylase (th). Th regulates the metabolism of L-Tyrosine to Dopamine). B3 is a cofactor too.

I'm convinced we can reduce IL-6 with good diet. I think to iron because Guthrie's link gives me this idea of "post-orgasm anemia" and because i said you I wait infos from another case. He has possible deletion of flulike symptoms with iron supplement. Everybody must check his iron level. But it's not enough because there are a lot of biological factors linked to iron. We talked with SteveD and he said he had Pois even when his iron level was good. But i remember even a low-limit level of iron can have effect on Dopamine (restless legs syndrome for example). Another problem is the role of iron on immunity. It seems to be a very complex problem because iron can be anti-inflammatory or pro-inflammatory, depending its form or its association with other molecules. Excessive iron can increase problems and be dangerous for body : No self-medication with iron! only doctors choose to try supplement or not . When Iron is "free" it might be used in pro-inflammation reaction too. Maybe the solution is to improve the absorption of iron instead of iron supplement. Lactoferrin can do the job .
And why not heal the autimmune disorder itself  ?  
Beside anti-inflammatory properties, LF was found to inhibit some autoimmune disorders.
It seems safe but i prefer to have opinion of the doctor.

On B jims hypothesis, i my experience with protein can back it up.
When i eat lots of protein and use multivitamin and increase uptake of vitamin C out pois, I experience this kind out mental High.
However, when i reapeat the same actions during pois i never achieve t the same result, it was always the same pois symptoms.
I believe Pois is definitely chowing down our neurotransmitters.

I would like join the band but I have no sort of musical talent. But i wont mind being the one throwing my panties on the stage.

[demografx]

TENSION RELIEVER

It's been 6 weeks. Enough! Maybe that's the right length of cycle interval for me. Do feel better, more energized "in spite of". Hope it lasts.

Next endo visit/more labwork is in 3 days.

As always, this place is hopping with ideas!

Thanks, everyone!

UPDATE: 4 HOURS LATER...TIRED

[demografx]

I would like join the band but I have no sort of musical talent. But i wont mind being the one throwing my panties on the stage.

OK CCconfucius, take the 2nd bungalow on the left!