Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2800 on: 12/01/2009 00:41:40 »
Counterpoints, your survey is a small fraction of the total 200 visitors, plus Waldinger!

It constitutes over 10% of the posters here, and I believe it is representative.  I've also paid attention to the posts on the forum, though. There are those with mental symptoms, those with both physical and mental, and basically no-one with just physical.  It follows that 'physical exhaustion' is unlikely to be the predominant symptom. (From what I've seen "brain fog" or some varient is by far the most frequently occuring symptom). Not that it really matters? I agree physical exhaustion is a common complaint.  I just did a re-count, trying to be as generous to the 'physical fatigue' argument as I could be (including anything that would suggest this symptom, even if not explicitly stated), and got 64%.  ('brain fog' + varients at ~76%).

This is interesting though.  Once we have more data, it would be informative to rank the symptoms in terms of frequency.  Our results might be more reliable if we introduced an additional survey with check-boxes.  (e.g. 'physical fatigue', 'brain fog', etc).  That way there is less subjective interpretation.  I have the survey the way it is right now, because the subjectivity allows the freedom for others to express symptoms many of us may have had, but can't presently articulate.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 00:54:04 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2801 on: 12/01/2009 00:55:07 »
It follows that 'physical exhaustion' is unlikely to be the predominant symptom.

Counterpoints, I keep repeating that it's physical and mental and even emotional!

Only the very first mention above did I not clarify that strongly enough.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2802 on: 12/01/2009 01:06:07 »
CP, does this summarize fairly what we're saying?

Counterpoints, extreme exhaustion and physical fatigue is my understanding of the chief POIS symptom.

exhaustion and fatigue, both physical and mental are the main complaints I see repeatedly.

about 48-55% of responders list physical fatigue or exhaustion as a post orgasm symptom.

"bet on"...physical/mental, even emotional exhaustion/fatigue.

« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 01:24:57 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2803 on: 12/01/2009 01:09:24 »
[The forum survey] constitutes over 10% of the posters here, and I believe it is representative.

I believe they are unusually motivated. Thereby possibly skewed.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 01:23:59 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2804 on: 12/01/2009 01:18:34 »
Counterpoints, assuming the POIS universe is in the thousands or millions, surely you would agree that 19 respondents is questionable as a statistically significant, projectable number for a quantitative survey. In all my research studies, any survey component that fell below a count of 100 was often flagged.

Qualitative studies (such as focus groups, Waldinger's 2 patients in his final writeup, your survey, etc.) are useful of course as a springboard to gather more data for quantification.

Hard to take a firm mathematical stand projecting to the whole POIS universe of sufferers at this time.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 03:53:49 by demografx »

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2805 on: 12/01/2009 01:26:06 »
I would point out that in my case--and perhaps for other people--the physical and mental fatigue can sometimes be hard to distinguish from one another.  For instance, if in POIS stage, when I feel slowed down by brain fog, it can also feel like my body finds it hard to move as well--even though this may be partially from the mental fatigue.

Also, (regarding the relation between POIS and premature ejaculation in Dr. Waldinger's paper), I do suffer from premature ejaculation.  Others (including John21 and Chewbacca) also mentioned having this symptom.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2806 on: 12/01/2009 01:52:44 »
I would point out that in my case--and perhaps for other people--the physical and mental fatigue can sometimes be hard to distinguish from one another.  For instance, if in POIS stage, when I feel slowed down by brain fog, it can also feel like my body finds it hard to move as well--even though this may be partially from the mental fatigue.

Also, (regarding the relation between POIS and premature ejaculation in Dr. Waldinger's paper), I do suffer from premature ejaculation.  Others (including John21 and Chewbacca) also mentioned having this symptom.

Very well said, Guthrie! I have a hard time distinguishing between brain fog and fatigue.

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Offline Jasmine07

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2807 on: 12/01/2009 02:12:00 »
thank you so much for your input guys! i'll be looking more into this!

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2808 on: 12/01/2009 02:47:03 »

"Girlwind" in particular is extremely knowledgeable in this area. She just recently completed $2,000 worth of hormone tests!

Girlwind,

I'm getting testing done for my anemia and while I'm there I'll request some hormonal testing. Can you tell me briefly what you tested for?

If you want to be thorough with testing for anemia, there are a few tests that come to mind: the CBC (complete
blood count), which is a panel of tests, that includes RBC (red blood cell count), hemoglobin and hematocrit.
There are also the Total Iron and the Iron Binding Capacity tests. And the Ferritin test--the main intracellular
iron storage protein.

As far as hormones.... oh boy!  I tested EVERYTHING I could think of: thyroid tests (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO-AB,
Thyroglobulin AB, and Reverse T3), Free Cortisol and Cortisol, DHEA Sulphate, Pregnenolone, Free Testosterone,
IGF-1 (that's growth hormone), FSH, LH, Estradiol, Progesterone, and Serotonin (which is the feel-good neurotrans-
mitter). There are more tests I did as well: for Vitamin D 25 hydroxy (a big deficiency for many with CFS) and RBC
Magnesium, as well as the complete metabolic panel, and a few others I can't remember.

I hope that's helpful.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2809 on: 12/01/2009 05:09:49 »
thank you so much for your input guys! i'll be looking more into this!

Jasmine,

Welcome. I have a 22 year old daughter. I applaud her courageousness as she looks into her own issues, as I do yours. This is cunning, baffling and powerful disease, but there is a lot of hard work being done by a lot of people to try to solve this in numerous ways.

Welcome

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2810 on: 12/01/2009 05:11:57 »

As far as hormones.... oh boy!  I tested EVERYTHING I could think of: thyroid tests (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO-AB,
Thyroglobulin AB, and Reverse T3), Free Cortisol and Cortisol, DHEA Sulphate, Pregnenolone, Free Testosterone,
IGF-1 (that's growth hormone), FSH, LH, Estradiol, Progesterone, and Serotonin (which is the feel-good neurotrans-
mitter). There are more tests I did as well: for Vitamin D 25 hydroxy (a big deficiency for many with CFS) and RBC
Magnesium, as well as the complete metabolic panel, and a few others I can't remember.

I hope that's helpful.

Thanks Girlwind I'll request those when I go in again.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2811 on: 12/01/2009 07:32:30 »
Continued to expand with the idea I got from Underwater around full central nervous system focus...and swam 73 laps in 90 minutes, plus 25" of yoga and 10 " of running...

Also, I'm working on the stage previous to POIS that, for me, starts the 'mental fog'... non-orgasmic genital contact.Instead, my partner and I worked out, shared dinner and watched a Disney cartoon (those things are about as sexless as a Thackeray novel!). It's been like being old except not being sick! It's better than that really. A lot better, because I know my mental/emotional health is not deteriorating as it does in the previous stage of POIS, in my experience.

My partner and I were also able to talk about all the simply, plain evil impulses that are coming up inside of me the last two weeks, since we committed to a path of non-orgasmic sexuality, and that helped me just let them pass through me.

Been doing, iron, vitamin D and B-12 supplements for a month , plus red meat. Anemia is steadily going away, but feeling like a  'Meathead' with all the attendant heart congestion... Looking forward , with hope, of this period being over and returning to raw , organic veganism...with supplements this time!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2812 on: 12/01/2009 17:03:25 »
SEXUAL/ORGASMIC REPRESSION

An old technique for POIS sufferers. I'd like to hear more about other people's experiences here, compare notes if you will.

I have seen others here come to the same conclusion as mine below, but it was usually expressed "off topic" as part of a larger discussion.

Our main interest, it seems, has been to explore the "biology of POIS", hormonal influences, testing, neurotransmitter theories and the like and then experiments and results with viable drugs and supplements.

It would be interesting to clarify and hear from anyone who hasn't already discussed the abstinence issue.

Some researchers have found that sexual/orgasmic repression can eventually lead to hostility and rage. In my personal experience, I find that movement in that direction can be true for me. That doesn't mean I necessarily become hostile or angry, but I can feel the tension building.

For me, the building intensity is felt clearly after about 6 weeks.

To counter this tension, for decades, I have experimented seriously, tried various forms of meditation, spirituality, etc. to no avail. I can suppress sexuality, but not with a very positive outcome in social interaction, self-esteem, and confidence. Even my pianoplaying deteriorates! [:)]

My conclusion, POIS notwithstanding, is that periodic release is a necessary part of my healthy functioning.

Would anyone else we haven't heard from care to comment on your experiences?
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 20:36:47 by demografx »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2813 on: 12/01/2009 17:11:31 »
Been doing, iron, vitamin D and B-12 supplements for a month , plus red meat. Anemia is steadily going away, but feeling like a 
'Meathead' with all the attendant heart congestion... Looking forward , with hope, of this period being over and returning to raw,
organic veganism...with supplements this time!

I've never been anemic, but I have had times where I've been in the lower end of normal for my hematocrit and iron.
During those times I've taken a liquid iron enriching supplement called Floradix Iron and Herbs. Several alternative
health professionals I know recommend it. It works really well to boost my iron back to normal in about 2 weeks.

Also, I don't think that meat (provided its lean and grass-fed) will cause heart congestion, especially for those of us
who have a metabolic type that thrives on high protein. In fact, eating too little fat and protein can reek serious havoc
on one's health, as I learned in my 20's, when I was committed to being macrobiotic and eating NO meat whatsoever.
My cholesterol at that time fell down to 107! And I thought this was a good thing, even though I was desperately ill
at the time. My father, who was a doctor, harped on me constantly about how UN-healthy it was to have such very
low cholesterol, and after about 8 years I began to believe him, and slowly added meat to my diet. I definitely felt
better after I began to eat meat--free range and grass fed. Many aspects of my health have improved since then.

Cholesterol is the key "ingredient" involved in creating all the steroid hormones in your body. So for those of us
who have hormonal levels that tend to be too low, it's not a good thing to let cholesterol fall to such low levels. I knew a
medical doctor who used to get quite ballistic about "all those young vegetarian guys" that came to see her, "completely
drained and wasted" because they refused to eat meat. She basically reiterated the words of my father.

I do know there are some people who can thrive on a vegetarian/vegan diet, but those have been a minority. They have
a completely different metabolic type, and can get away with consuming a lot of raw fruits and vegetables with minimal
protein and no animal food. From what I've read on this forum, most of the people here who have experimented with
their diets have found that lower carbs and higher protein work better for them. I'm curious if any have found being vegan
to be healthy for them.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 17:19:24 by girlwind »

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2814 on: 13/01/2009 01:53:20 »
Been doing, iron, vitamin D and B-12 supplements for a month , plus red meat. Anemia is steadily going away, but feeling like a 
'Meathead' with all the attendant heart congestion... Looking forward , with hope, of this period being over and returning to raw,
organic veganism...with supplements this time!

I've never been anemic, but I have had times where I've been in the lower end of normal for my hematocrit and iron.
During those times I've taken a liquid iron enriching supplement called Floradix Iron and Herbs. Several alternative
health professionals I know recommend it. It works really well to boost my iron back to normal in about 2 weeks.

Also, I don't think that meat (provided its lean and grass-fed) will cause heart congestion, especially for those of us
who have a metabolic type that thrives on high protein. In fact, eating too little fat and protein can reek serious havoc
on one's health, as I learned in my 20's, when I was committed to being macrobiotic and eating NO meat whatsoever.
My cholesterol at that time fell down to 107! And I thought this was a good thing, even though I was desperately ill
at the time. My father, who was a doctor, harped on me constantly about how UN-healthy it was to have such very
low cholesterol, and after about 8 years I began to believe him, and slowly added meat to my diet. I definitely felt
better after I began to eat meat--free range and grass fed. Many aspects of my health have improved since then.

Cholesterol is the key "ingredient" involved in creating all the steroid hormones in your body. So for those of us
who have hormonal levels that tend to be too low, it's not a good thing to let cholesterol fall to such low levels. I knew a
medical doctor who used to get quite ballistic about "all those young vegetarian guys" that came to see her, "completely
drained and wasted" because they refused to eat meat. She basically reiterated the words of my father.

I do know there are some people who can thrive on a vegetarian/vegan diet, but those have been a minority. They have
a completely different metabolic type, and can get away with consuming a lot of raw fruits and vegetables with minimal
protein and no animal food. From what I've read on this forum, most of the people here who have experimented with
their diets have found that lower carbs and higher protein work better for them. I'm curious if any have found being vegan
to be healthy for them.


I haven't eaten meat for over 4 years.  I still eat eggs and dairy though.  I used to have chest pains but I haven't had any in the last four years.  I get enough vegetable protein so  not only am healthy but have gained about 30 lbs. and a lot of that muscle.


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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2815 on: 13/01/2009 03:43:03 »
Been doing, iron, vitamin D and B-12 supplements for a month , plus red meat. Anemia is steadily going away, but feeling like a 
'Meathead' with all the attendant heart congestion... Looking forward , with hope, of this period being over and returning to raw,
organic veganism...with supplements this time!

I've never been anemic, but I have had times where I've been in the lower end of normal for my hematocrit and iron.
During those times I've taken a liquid iron enriching supplement called Floradix Iron and Herbs. Several alternative
health professionals I know recommend it. It works really well to boost my iron back to normal in about 2 weeks.

Also, I don't think that meat (provided its lean and grass-fed) will cause heart congestion, especially for those of us
who have a metabolic type that thrives on high protein. In fact, eating too little fat and protein can reek serious havoc
on one's health, as I learned in my 20's, when I was committed to being macrobiotic and eating NO meat whatsoever.
My cholesterol at that time fell down to 107! And I thought this was a good thing, even though I was desperately ill
at the time. My father, who was a doctor, harped on me constantly about how UN-healthy it was to have such very
low cholesterol, and after about 8 years I began to believe him, and slowly added meat to my diet. I definitely felt
better after I began to eat meat--free range and grass fed. Many aspects of my health have improved since then.

Cholesterol is the key "ingredient" involved in creating all the steroid hormones in your body. So for those of us
who have hormonal levels that tend to be too low, it's not a good thing to let cholesterol fall to such low levels. I knew a
medical doctor who used to get quite ballistic about "all those young vegetarian guys" that came to see her, "completely
drained and wasted" because they refused to eat meat. She basically reiterated the words of my father.

I do know there are some people who can thrive on a vegetarian/vegan diet, but those have been a minority. They have
a completely different metabolic type, and can get away with consuming a lot of raw fruits and vegetables with minimal
protein and no animal food. From what I've read on this forum, most of the people here who have experimented with
their diets have found that lower carbs and higher protein work better for them. I'm curious if any have found being vegan
to be healthy for them.


I haven't eaten meat for over 4 years.  I still eat eggs and dairy though.  I used to have chest pains but I haven't had any in the last four years.  I get enough vegetable protein so  not only am healthy but have gained about 30 lbs. and a lot of that muscle.



Talked to my acupuncturist at length today. Going to maintain red meat, but cut back on portions, increase wheatgrass steadily for 60 days. Glad to be getting my strength back.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2816 on: 13/01/2009 11:46:00 »
Hey gang,

I've been out playing through Marshalls and SVT's real loud tonight for good money...but, my mind kept drifting back to the work we're all doing here on the blogsite. Got an idea I want to throw out that I used today which was very helpful to me in my fight against POIS...Here it be:


Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. The name has a chilling feel to it, like walking down a waxed linoleum floored, olive drably-painted hospital hallway…There is a sense of on-ness, off-ness that, for me, feels inadequate, bordering on dishonest.
  I want to use masturbation as an example of the non-black and whiteness of POIS.

  When I would decide to masturbate I would feel excitement, a thrill. I now recognise that this decision is a neurochemical change in my brain and that the feelings that accompany this decision are also neurochemical changes in my brain. This is stage one, for me. The decision to be open to being sexual.

 The second stage is more breathtaking than the first, literally, as my mind seeks for
1)   images of past sexual experiences that I have had to play back in my head
2)   new images of women I have not been sexual with to fantasize about
3)   external images: pictures, DVD’s or internet images
So, far everything is mental. There is no physical behavior. It's all in my head, but these are very real changes in me, not inconsequential activities that will eventually lead to something consequential.

   Stage three begins the physical activity. Finding a place to masturbate , uninterrupted, becoming unclothed and situated to whatever degree seems situationally appropriate. Some people would refer to this as the ritualizing stage of masturbation. No genital contact yet.This phase is almost trance like and is characterized by total focus on the ensuing act. In biology they would refer to this as a “forced solution”. Meaning the result was unstoppable and inevitable. Needless to say the neurochemical bath has increased dramatically in intensity.

  Stage four begins with genital contact accompanied with sexual fantasy through the use of memory, imagination or the external stimuli settled on in stage two. This stage can go on for quite a while, but generally, for me , I was looking for orgasm so it was a fairly brief stage.

  Finally stage five…orgasm. With other people, this is accompanied by a sense of self nurturance, good humored self-love, warmth and a feeling of safety.
…Not so with me. Upon orgasm, not even one third the way through it, my brain structure begins a catastrophic collapse, like a mental erector set suddenly crashing down in an electrical storm, followed by a tsunamic sea of horrible emotions: pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization, depression, self pity, negativity, hopelessness, disconnection, despair, rigidity, humorlessness, self-centeredness, attempts at control, demandingness and numbness.

If this is all true…and it is, for me, then how can I say it's simply orgasm that causes this. Of the losses experienced in the five stages, orgasm probably takes 80% of the toll, intensity-wise, but there is still 20% unaccounted for and, in terms of time only, the Pre Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, is considerably more costly.

Now, I have not masturbated in 18 1/2 years , but I do remember, clearly, what it was like, for me.

The point of this expostion is... if it is true that POIS is harmful to all of us, and if POIS has at least five stages, then perhaps stopping the illness at an earlier stage would be easier, more effective and could alleviate some of our very real suffering.

...Just a thought


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Offline Coreman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2817 on: 13/01/2009 11:48:13 »
ALPHA 20 C:
I've been away for a while. I know it is VERY EXPENSIVE, that's why I've stopped taking it.

Thank you for your feedback, all. Nowadays, I test Tribulus Terrestris. It helps physical strength. Somebody else has any experience?

Keep on moving...

Best regards,

Coreman.




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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2818 on: 13/01/2009 15:17:54 »
ALPHA 20 C:
I've been away for a while. I know it is VERY EXPENSIVE, that's why I've stopped taking it.

Thank you for your feedback, all. Nowadays, I test Tribulus Terrestris. It helps physical strength. Somebody else has any experience?

Keep on moving...

Best regards,

Coreman.

Hi, Coreman. Here are some POIS forum results for Tribulus Terrestris:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Tribulus+Terrestris+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&btnG=Search
« Last Edit: 13/01/2009 18:16:38 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2819 on: 13/01/2009 15:25:19 »
...the work we're all doing here on the blogsite.

Steve, sorry if this sounds nitpicky, but I thought I'd chime in after repeated references to "this blogsite."

I think this is a forum not a blogsite. My understanding of a blogsite is a website that is maintained by an individual with his/her updated posts of philosophy, ideas, rants, etc.
« Last Edit: 13/01/2009 18:18:54 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2820 on: 13/01/2009 15:38:03 »
PROLACTIN AND CFS

Girlwind and _________ (sorry I forgot the names of the other CFS-affected individuals here): this seemed like an intriguing link. Unfortunately it requires registration, but here is the Google description:

"Baseline prolactin levels were the same in all three groups, but rose much faster and higher in the patients with CFS than in the other two groups after ..."
http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1992/512/6

In search of POIS villains, I was shocked to see that my prolactin is sky-high. I'm going into the lab today for follow up blood tests.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2821 on: 13/01/2009 16:02:58 »
Steve--
I just wanted to respond to your last comment regarding stages.
I have thought about stages in the past, but not with a lot of specificity.
Here are my thoughts expressed in a very generalized manner. I may change my mind on these stages, but I wanted to respond to your thoughts quickly. These so called "stages" have been quite obvious to me, and I have often wondered whether I am just an observer or a participant/observer in these "Stages". Can "I" influence these stages? I believe I can, but I don't know for sure. I am working on it. Enough babble from me, here they are: 1) Anticipatory/neurotic stage (psychological/chemical)
                        2) Orgasm (chemical)
                        3) Delay  (neurotic/chemical)
                        4) POIS  (chemical)
These are my stages representing "my" experiences only. I have a real, psychological component to my POIS that plays its part. I use the word neurotic to substitute for my anxiety syndrome as it plays its part in POIS. I understand that for others, there may be no psychological aspect at all. But for me (historically), as I have suggested before in other posts, there are without question psychological/emotional precipitating events. But also without question, genetics and biochemistry play a huge role. I also think that injury plays a role, perhaps bigger than I suspect. But this I don't want to elaborate on now. Sorry if this is a rambling answer, I have to get out of the house quickly and wanted to respond.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2822 on: 13/01/2009 16:12:24 »
The point of this expostion is... if it is true that POIS is harmful to all of us, and if POIS has at least five stages, then perhaps stopping the illness at an earlier stage would be easier, more effective and could alleviate some of our very real suffering.

...Just a thought

Steve--I think you've made an interesting point about your POIS beginning with the "thought" of sex. Then the "thrill
of the thought," followed by the "ritual" (of masturbation OR possibly intercourse, too--why not include that?), and
then the genital contact, and then the actual orgasm with the "catastrophic collapse" of emotions--of hopelessness
and negativity and despair, etc. This is an insightful description. And there's another side to the picture as well.

What I've noticed is that there are distinctly different KINDS of sexual motivations at work, depending on the sexual
stimulus and one's response to it. The "desperately driven" feeling to have sex is one kind. I think that's what you
might be describing... But there's also another, which I prefer, and have more of now that I've been with my current
partner for ten years. I would describe it as a sleepy-relaxed-cuddly sexual feeling. It is the OPPOSITE of "sexually
stimulated," and the key word for me, oddly enough, is "sleepy." I feel my body getting very relaxed and my anxieties
dissolving. Only after I feel completely relaxed, do the the sexual feelings begin to predominate, but the urge is not
a driven feeling, but more like a sensual bonding feeling.... The only apprehension I've felt revolves around question-
ing  "how tired am I going to be, if I go through to the orgasm?" Though that is something I have now trained myself
(quite successfully) to avoid.

As I'm writing this, I am flashing back to the woman from the reuniting website. She addressed these different kinds
of sexual response and writes about them extensively, especially in regard to dopamine and oxytocin, and their effects.
You should check out what she and her partner have written about this. It might be very enlightening for you.
 http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain
« Last Edit: 13/01/2009 16:15:24 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2823 on: 13/01/2009 16:35:41 »
Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. The name has a chilling feel to it, like walking down a waxed linoleum floored, olive drably-painted hospital hallway...Upon orgasm, not even one third the way through it, my brain structure begins a catastrophic collapse...then how can I say it's simply orgasm that causes this....

Very interesting post, Steve. I am only affected by "POIS" after ejaculatory orgasm. Period. But I realize that not everyone is built that way. I like your 5 Stages, and I have seen evidence from others that, for example, sexual arousal alone can create serious mood/chemistry shifts in sufferers. In other words, arousal - not just orgasm - can create "POIS"! (please note I use POIS in quotes, because this malady-example is NOT due to orgasm.)

Apart from my cut-and-dried "POIS" malady, I'll be honest and tell you my current reason for liking "POIS" so much: when trying to find help for this agonizing condition, many of us have been dismissed or ridiculed by the medical and therapeutic communities - for decades. Or our doctors have quickly concluded that this illnesss is "psychosomatic" and we're shipped off to the psychologist or psychiatrist for "treatment"!

But now...we have a medical paper written by an MD (Waldinger) who (1) writes that it is NOT psychosomatic and (2) treats the condition very seriously and gives it a medical name with the right scientific buzzwords which connote credibility.

Medical credibility. That's been our main benefit. When I went to this major, world-class University research facility and handed their endocrinologist Dr. Waldinger's paper, I could see everything change in the doctor's opinion, compared to my past experiences. And in fact, he uses the words "your syndrome" when speaking with me about it. He authorized my very expensive (for insurance)brain scans because of the credibility. I doubt he would have done this if I had just come in and complained of "symptoms after sex".

I also saw a positive credibility reaction from my old friend who is a biophysics pioneer author/researcher in HIV/AIDS, and a well known medical entrepreneur and Harvard lecturer, when he asked me, "Have any papers been written about this?" "Yes? Please send!"

Health insurance reimbursement also now become much less of a problem; it's a proven medical diagnosis.

As a slight segue, the mere existence of this POIS Forum greatly helps us all as well with credibility.

Steve, I don't know if you've suffered from medical credibility problems, but many of us here have. I can also say that I have received Private Messages to this effect. One of our POIS listmembers even wanted to use my doctor because of this, and he's 1,000 miles away from me!

But none of this invalidates your points. I agree that POIS is not the most ideal description. I'm certainly open to discussion. Thanks very much for the post!
« Last Edit: 13/01/2009 18:25:09 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2824 on: 13/01/2009 17:43:17 »
LEVITRA

At one time, this represented a 75% cure for me, cause for much joyful celebration and glee.

Some of us thought that perhaps the major impact on POIS is due to Levitra's effect in stimulating nitric oxide?

It's now over a year later since first discovering Levitra's effect on POIS accidentally, and I'm not so sure how well it's still working.

Perhaps the cognitive symptoms have lessened. But the exhaustion is still there, and it's debilitating, even though the symptomatic length of time has been cut down.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2825 on: 13/01/2009 18:02:49 »
Why keep the POIS name, even for now?

One compelling reason: many, many sufferers have found us here at The POIS Forum, by Googling keywords from Dr. Waldinger's POIS paper - which garnered significant worldwide publicity: not just the regular posters here, but also the people representing the nearly 200,000 page views of this forum.
« Last Edit: 13/01/2009 18:30:20 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2826 on: 13/01/2009 18:55:45 »
LEVITRA

At one time, this represented a 75% cure for me, cause for much joyful celebration and glee.

Some of us thought that perhaps the major impact on POIS is due to Levitra's effect in stimulating nitric oxide?

It's now over a year later since first discovering Levitra's effect on POIS accidentally, and I'm not so sure how well it's still working.

Perhaps the cognitive symptoms have lessened. But the exhaustion is still there, and it's debilitating, even though the symptomatic length of time has been cut down.

I believe you once mentioned you tried increasing the dose.  Does this affect the relief you feel from Levitra?



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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2827 on: 13/01/2009 18:56:29 »
Girlwind--
I read entire article you recommended. Perhaps man/woman has known about these qualitative and quantitative aspects to sex [and perhaps even orgasm] for eons, and expressed these differences in their art, music, dance, trance and any variety of rituals. Maybe these rituals are/were a way to bridge the gap, so to speak, between the metaphors you used of "desperately driven" and "sleepy cuddly", the former causing tribal problems, the latter more conducive to peaceful coexistence. However, in today's world, Freud observed that sublimating the "desperately driven" may result in an uncertain reaction (reaction formation). It's interesting that psychoanalysis is still very popular in Europe, but Pavlov/Skinner rule here in the U.S.. However, both I think are slowly being replaced by the pharmaceutical industry. With respect to POIS, the fact that some people in this forum ESCAPE symptoms every once in a while, and that the symptoms can vary in intensity and duration, lead me to believe that there may be  larger, underlying bodily rhythms  and  that behavioural elements may be significant also. And of course, we may just be missing the right combination of essential nutrients/chemicals. Perhaps we can be healed from POIS, slowly, perhaps in a few surprising stages, just when things may appear to be too complex. This I believe in completely. I am optimistic. "Sleepy plus Cuddly plus Orgasm" will eventually = Relaxed Bliss--------------I am in a very rare and happy mood today as my wife and I will have both our children visiting here together for a few days.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2828 on: 13/01/2009 19:12:46 »
Why keep the POIS name, even for now?

One compelling reason: many, many sufferers have found us here at The POIS Forum, by Googling keywords from Dr. Waldinger's POIS paper - which garnered significant worldwide publicity: not just the regular posters here, but also the people representing the nearly 200,000 page views of this forum.

I absolutely agree.  Changing the name from "POIS" would be an incredible setback; I don't think any single action could damage our cause more.  Under the current label, this condition is gaining recognition in the scientific research community.  It is also becoming more known amongst the general population; now, in other forums, when someone complains of symptoms associated with orgasm, I have seen references made to POIS.  And when the patient types this into a search engine, they are brought to the resources found here and elsewhere.

Besides, the problem described by people here, and written about in the literature, is absolutely overwhelmingly an unusual response to orgasm. There are peripheral stimuli (e.g. sometimes excessive amounts of sugar, etc.) but these vary from person to person and are never the main concern.  Any change which would make this less clear, would not only upset a majority of sufferers who would then be misrepresented, but would give researchers a mixed signal about the main problem -- again, stalling progress.

Finally, Steve, this is a debilitating condition.  I think most of us want to learn about the physiological problems that could cause our symptoms.  And to discuss supplements and medications which have had an effect.  And to attract productive and rigorous research efforts.  In this context, it's somewhat frivolous to consider whether Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome makes one think of a linoleum floor.  This is a serious problem, and it's not something I want to have, or want to embrace in any way.  I just want to learn about it, have it taken seriously, have productive research take place, and either manage it effectively, or preferably, free myself of it completely.
« Last Edit: 13/01/2009 19:19:35 by Counterpoints »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2829 on: 13/01/2009 21:52:45 »
With respect to minor differences that may crop up from time to time on this forum, I'd like to comment. First of all, this is a fabulous forum, the best I've ever seen, with the best participants. POIS is probably the most delicate issue that could ever be discussed. And I submit, that delicate is the correct word when it comes to both subject matter and the mode of communication. With respect to the widely accepted term POIS, everybody is correct. I don't see a controvery or even differences.
Let me explain:
              All would probably agree that disorder can be a component of inquiry that may ultimately find its value through digression, reformulation and spontaneous ejaculation (please note the 2nd denotation in Websters). Merleau-Ponty observes,"...everyhing is linked by references to a center of interest...which no guidelines mark out in advance." On the other hand, as Vygotsky notes, "...words and other signs are those means that direct our mental operations...and channel them toward the solution of the problem confronting us."
              Thus, all the recent viewpoints are dialogically proper with respect to POIS, whether there be a spontaneous, prosaic observation or a response to it. All are constructive in their entirety. All seek to add to the discussion of POIS.
              Whether one describes their response to the term POIS with words like inadequacy or dishonest, and another asserts that such a response is frivolous ispart of a constructive discourse. As a philosopher and lawyer, I see no basis for the existence of opposition here. POIS is POIS and serves as a universally accepted term for this forum. It is its identity. However, if a post begins with a vivid, literary introduction that is clearly spontaneous, and ends with a thesis statement that supports the body of the post and urges us to consider POIS as an illness of stages and uses the term POIS twice, then I submit there is no basis of disagreement. This is part of a constructive, multi-perspective dialogue.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2830 on: 13/01/2009 21:55:54 »
Why keep the POIS name, even for now?
I absolutely agree.  Changing the name from "POIS" would be an incredible setback;

This is a serious problem, and it's not something I want to have, or want to embrace in any way.  I just want to learn about it, have it taken seriously, or preferably, free myself of it completely.


Hold on guys, I didn't suggest changing the name! I, too, believe that would be minimally politically and financially foolish.
What I am suggesting is that there may be stages of this illness, where it can be arrested earlier and have less devastating consequences like cancer, diabetes or coronary heart disease. But to say that a heart attack should be looked at only at the point of infarction would be recklessly irresponsible, on my part, if I want wellness.

I want very much to talk about Girlwind's point , but like Underwater, I'm headed out the door.


Counterpoints,

As an aside, can you list the 10 mental symptoms you have found in your sample of 60% of the respondents?

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2831 on: 13/01/2009 21:57:23 »
With respect to minor differences that may crop up from time to time on this forum, I'd like to comment. First of all, this is a fabulous forum, the best I've ever seen, with the best participants. POIS is probably the most delicate issue that could ever be discussed. And I submit, that delicate is the correct word when it comes to both subject matter and the mode of communication. With respect to the widely accepted term POIS, everybody is correct. I don't see a controvery or even differences.
Let me explain:
              All would probably agree that disorder can be a component of inquiry that may ultimately find its value through digression, reformulation and spontaneous ejaculation (please note the 2nd denotation in Websters). Merleau-Ponty observes,"...everyhing is linked by references to a center of interest...which no guidelines mark out in advance." On the other hand, as Vygotsky notes, "...words and other signs are those means that direct our mental operations...and channel them toward the solution of the problem confronting us."
              Thus, all the recent viewpoints are dialogically proper with respect to POIS, whether there be a spontaneous, prosaic observation or a response to it. All are constructive in their entirety. All seek to add to the discussion of POIS.
              Whether one describes their response to the term POIS with words like inadequacy or dishonest, and another asserts that such a response is frivolous ispart of a constructive discourse. As a philosopher and lawyer, I see no basis for the existence of opposition here. POIS is POIS and serves as a universally accepted term for this forum. It is its identity. However, if a post begins with a vivid, literary introduction that is clearly spontaneous, and ends with a thesis statement that supports the body of the post and urges us to consider POIS as an illness of stages and uses the term POIS twice, then I submit there is no basis of disagreement. This is part of a constructive, multi-perspective dialogue.

Yeah, that!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2832 on: 13/01/2009 22:20:41 »
urges us to consider POIS as an illness of stages and uses the term POIS twice, then I submit there is no basis of disagreement.

I'm not sure what the punchline of your post is.  Is it the above sentence in bold?  (No offense intended, honestly!) but you seem to be expressing, in a rather verbose fashion, that Steve's post is essentially sacrosanct, and that while criticisms are part of constructive discourse, my specific criticism has no place.  Of course, I disagree with that sentiment -- whether or not this is what you intended to get across.

I wasn't responding to the "stages" idea.  I was addressing this:
"Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. The name has a chilling feel to it, like walking down a waxed linoleum floored, olive drably-painted hospital hallway…There is a sense of on-ness, off-ness that, for me, feels inadequate, bordering on dishonest."

Yes, it may be a rhetorical flourish, and lead-in to his point, but it is also a very plain criticism of the name "POIS".  I felt it important to re-inforce Demografx' point that we would do well to stick with the same name.  I also think getting too "vivid and literary" can be dangerous, and frivolous at best.  It leads to misunderstandings, as evidenced by recent posts, it can be counter-productive (rather than comparing symptoms or medications, we are comparing metaphors), and it certainly wouldn't be entertained by physicians (it comes off as obsessive and dramatic... and this behaviour can cause us to become pre-occupied with something we are, in fact, trying to minimize in our lives).  If Demografx had talked to his endocrinologist in the style of the above quote ("the name has a chilling feel to it... olive drably-painted hospital hallway.."), I doubt he would have had his MRI, which revealed a real problem.  You're free to disagree, and you may have some good points to make in disagreement.  But I feel my concerns are important enough to express.  I think it's safe to say most of us don't want to have this problem.  And we don't want to risk having it romanticized.  And we don't want to lose focus.  This isn't an insult.  This is a concern from someone who is familiar with serious scientific research and wants it to be directed towards this condition.

« Last Edit: 13/01/2009 22:46:18 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2833 on: 13/01/2009 22:39:39 »
Counterpoints,
As an aside, can you list the 10 mental symptoms you have found in your sample of 60% of the respondents?

Hi Steve,
Sure.  As I said earlier, these are "very approximate" figures.  I made a post about this earlier, where I listed group 1, 2, 3 symptoms.  It's based on what I've seen in this thread, what has been sent to me through private message, what I've seen in the questionnaire responses, what I've read in papers, etc.  I don't have time to find the post right now, but I can repost it.  It was a list I made when I was about to consult with a neurologist researcher.  At the time, I welcomed additions and comments, and I still do.

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2834 on: 13/01/2009 23:58:30 »
ALPHA 20 C:
I've been away for a while. I know it is VERY EXPENSIVE, that's why I've stopped taking it.

Coreman--did the alpha 20c continue to be effective for POIS while you were taking it?  Did you repeat the experience of taking it in the middle of POIS and having your brain fog disappear within 10 minutes?


CCconfucius, you had said that you also purchased alpha20c:

I got sunrider product alpha 20c what a reap of but i need to find out whether it works or not. the ingredients according to box are;
nandina flower(chinese white flower), paris polyphylia(paris herb)root, scutellaria baicalensis (scutellaria herb)root; dandelion root; imperata root

Have you had a chance to test it yet?

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2835 on: 14/01/2009 00:15:23 »
Counterpoints--
It is very interesting that we can have such different "takes" on the same post.
I certainly did not intend to give the impression that one view was sacrosanct and immune from criticism. My intentions all along were to respond to the "give and take" of dialogue in a positive, two sided manner which has been one of my interests for many years. My apologies. I might have been verbose, but I enjoyed writing it. I just never read into  that post the idea of name change. I enjoyed the stylistic introduction, recognized a spontaneous utterance (felt the anguish that only spontaneity can generate)and read down to get to the main idea/s. The contributor is always painfully honest and revealing.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2836 on: 14/01/2009 01:27:41 »
Counterpoints,
As an aside, can you list the 10 mental symptoms you have found in your sample of 60% of the respondents?

Hi Steve,
Sure.  As I said earlier, these are "very approximate" figures.  I made a post about this earlier, where I listed group 1, 2, 3 symptoms.  It's based on what I've seen in this thread, what has been sent to me through private message, what I've seen in the questionnaire responses, what I've read in papers, etc.  I don't have time to find the post right now, but I can repost it.  It was a list I made when I was about to consult with a neurologist researcher.  At the time, I welcomed additions and comments, and I still do.


I'd be grateful for the repost.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2837 on: 14/01/2009 03:04:53 »
UPDATE: MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST AND I PARTNERING A CURE FOR POIS

Visited with my University endo + did more bloodwork today.
Interestingly, Sidney Poitier, the famous actor, author, Ambassador and corporate chieftain, was visiting in the same office. I was told that many celebrities hang out here.

Quick recap, today's visit was after initial visit plus bloodwork and much email correspondence (email alone being unusual for extensive doctor/patient correspondence in my experience). Incredibly high prolactin levels plus low testosterone levels were found, leading to his recommended MRI of the brain, which found no major pathology.

If you'll notice above, I use the word "partnering". I firmly believe that after the visits, the labwork, the brain MRI and the emails, that the doctor and I have established a very good, mutually respectful bond. He even welcomed data from my biophysics friend about prolactin that I emailed to him. No ego problem here.

And Counterpoints is right in saying that I might not have gotten this far without Dr. Waldinger's POIS paper; in fact it was on his desk today. And as I mentioned in my previous post, the very existence of this POIS Forum added much medical credibility. Even to the point of almost getting our group here funded as part of a major study. The first round was rejected, but it's still possible. The main thing is that the doctor stuck his neck out for me and this forum. He took a chance and introduced me to the key grant/funding rainmaker and Chief Scientist of their illness-studies at the university. The excitement is that he is firmly committed to researching and curing my POIS! Something that I never experienced in my 30+ years of this despicable malady. Despicable? Sorry, emotions come creeping in when I think of how much of my life - and yours - has been wasted by POIS.

Frankly, in this process here at the University, I became afraid of tumors, dangerous drugs, horrendous procedures, including surgery, and more that seemed to be part of the path here. Thankfully, none of that is true so far.

The doctor's POIS theory, which he wants to test, yet is perfectly willing to abandon in favor of evidence elsewhere, is that my low testosterone may be creating abnormally high prolactin levels.

I protested: I tried testosterone for many, many months; it helped my libido (too much?) but did nothing for my POIS. His reply was that I tried DEPOtestosterone, which is erratic. Today, he prescribed 2 Androderm daily testosterone patches, which he said should stabilize my testosterone and, hopefully, bring down my prolactin. And hopefully treat POIS successfully. If not, onward and forward.........

I went to the lab after the meeting to test prolactin and testosterone again, and I have a lab visit scheduled for March for the same, plus Cortisol testing.

Anyway, that's it. I wanted to share that with you all. Thanks.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 16:22:29 by demografx »

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Offline OmBass

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2838 on: 14/01/2009 03:26:02 »
Hi all,
I'd like to share my input and experience here.

First off, I have had a couple bouts with POIS. Cool to have found the forum here. And honestly, I think I understand the mechanism behind the illness. Basically it all comes down to this: ADRENAL EXHAUSTION.

I have been suffering from varying degrees of adrenal problems for many years. I have made great improvements. There was a time when I couldn't have an orgasm without becoming extremely depressed for minimum 24hrs afterwards. This was a time when I was going through a great amount of stress, and my body's energy reserves were very low. This is also a time when I was drinking a lot of coffee to balance the energy lows. And this my friends, I believe is truly the source of our problems. Let me explain:

First off, I overcame that bout of POIS through rest (8+ hours a night if possible), cutting out coffee and all stimulants, and eliminating as much stress in my life as possible.

I was just in Thailand and met a wonderful girl there. We spent almost a month together. We had sex daily, sometimes more than once a day. And I never got and POIS. However, I did notice that if i really pushed it. Like 3x in one day, i could get a bit of POIS. But only for half a day or so. So essentially, I was having sex with no problems and no POIS. Sure, I would have liked to been boinking 5x a day like a porno stud, but considering i could barely have sex months prior, I was having the time of my life.

Now, fast forward 2 months. The only thing I have changed in 2 months is... I have started drinking COFFEE. And a decent amount of it. Before that it was green tea in the morning and that was it for caffeine. Started with one (strong) double latte in the morning, and then upped it to one in the afternoon too. This continued for a couple of months. And now I am finding myself just starting to be sexually active with a new GF. And guess what? The WORST case of POIS ever!! Horrible depression, anxiety, lethargy, irritability for 2 days now since orgasm. Horrendously debilitating, to the point where I cant even do my job. I have actually been pretty freaked out about it, as I just feel AWFUL. 

And keep this in mind: The ONLY thing i have changed since my previous POIS-free sexual romps is the addition of a lot of coffee. And this affects the dopamine system, as well as the adrenals, both of which I believe are major factor in all this POIS stuff. LIke it or dont, ejaculation expends energy. Chi, qi, lifeforce, dopamine, whatever you'd like to call it. And so does coffee, stimilants, etc. They all are affecting the same reserves. My acupuncturist refers to adrenals as a sorta shock absorbers. They can take a bit, but only so much. They can take an orgasm or two, but that on top of too much coffee, amphetamines, stress, etc=POIS.

Remember: POIS is not normal! the majority of people have orgasms without consequence. So what is wrong? Our bodies are overworked, and overtaxed. And its not purely coffee alone. But coffee is a MAJOR stimulant which you may be underestimating in regards to its effects on your body. Its very glorified and praised by many, and I more than understand the lure and draw and all out yumminess and satisfaction that is a proper cup of coffee. I was just drawn into its seductive web myself after over a year of being off of it. However, the cost is just too great! What would you rather have? Coffee or sex? For me the choice is clear :)

The all out HORRIBLE POIS symptoms I have been experiencing for the last 48 hours prompted me to trace back my steps, be scientific about it and do some research, which led me to this forum. I am no Dr, but I am very experienced with adrenal exhaustion/fatigue, and its symptoms and treatment. And the one thing I can say for certain is this:

THE DRUGS APPROACH IS THE WRONG ONE AND WILL JUST MAKE YOU WORSE IN THE LONG RUN!!!!!!

Its not about finding the "right" drug. its about getting off the stimulants in particular, and just letting your body heal and function normally. Any sort of detox would be wonderful for your system, and I would recommend it heartily. The reason why you get the POIS is that your bodies energy/dopamine reserves are essentially at zero due to overuse of stimulants! Caffiene and amphetamines = NOT GOOD and will just make you much worse off.

Here's a great article and overview for Adrenal Fatigue:

http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp

Or Just google it. Understanding it is the key to getting better!

There's also the best book I've seen about called "Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome." Its available at Amazon or adrenalfatigue.org

Hope this helps! I for one am absolutely certain that the elimination of coffee (cut it out completely today), the addition of more sleep, along with just treating my body right and following the basic principles for adrenal health and recovery, will bring about my own recovery and restoration of well being. I speak from experience! I was there, and was able to reverse all progress and end up worse than i started by just adding a bunch of coffee to my life.

COFFEE=BAD!!! Cut it out along with the stimulants, and get on the rd to feeling better :-) Yes, I know, you're tired. But its because your whole system REALLY is tired. Your body is freaking EXHAUSTED, and all the coffee is just making it worse! You dont have to live with this! You can get better! Just give your body a break. Read up on all this and take it to heart. The more drugs approach is just burying you deeper...

Good luck and a speedy recovery to everyone!
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 03:31:17 by OmBass »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2839 on: 14/01/2009 03:29:19 »
But I just renewed my subscription to Drugs 'R' Us....

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2840 on: 14/01/2009 03:47:15 »
Thanks for the report Demo--
Testosterone Prolactin balance, very interesting--
Congratulations on your relationship with this physician, sounds hopeful--
Is the assumption that a patch will stabilize the testosterone at a lower level, or just stabilize it generally?
In a previous post, I recall there being some consideration with Prolactin/Dopamine balance. Is this still a consideration?
Thanks for the update---

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2841 on: 14/01/2009 03:50:21 »
SEXUAL/ORGASMIC REPRESSION
Some researchers have found that sexual/orgasmic repression can eventually lead to hostility and rage. In my personal experience, I find that movement in that direction can be true for me. That doesn't mean I necessarily become hostile or angry, but I can feel the tension building. For me, the building intensity is felt clearly after about 6 weeks.

To counter this tension, for decades, I have experimented seriously, tried various forms of meditation, spirituality, etc. to no avail. I can suppress sexuality, but not with a very positive outcome in social interaction, self-esteem, and confidence. Even my pianoplaying deteriorates! [:)]

Demo, about occasional hostility, rage and even blind fanaticism when sexually abstinent, here is the best I can say that has been helpful:
-Reducing/suppressing : salt, zinc, sugar, coffee, food additives, multivitamin (my experience was with supplements containing only vitamins (no minerals) in RDA doses). 
-Doing more (and finish!) pleasant manual and mental work, long physical exercise (so eventually it's possible to eat more easily what was suppressed above)
-Taking more water, lettuce, can help.
-Having meals in full silence, mastication is important.

Even if this is happening only when sexually abstinent, I think it's definitely not the unique cause. There is certainly something else abnormal and more profound causing that. It's not everybody who reacts like that

It is said that low serotonin or low or excessive testosterone can cause hostility. Maybe pois itself is responsible, it's a way for this awful thing to appear again as a long term side effect when we think it's over !

I'd add that a minimum of rage is absolutely necessary to achieve some difficult tasks, and can often be very positive specially when you can fight and win over the frustration.



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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2842 on: 14/01/2009 04:02:07 »
I've just read your last post Demo, this sounds extremely encouraging. (Please correct the error high testosterone in your last post [:)]). I'll search about this new treatment he gave you.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2843 on: 14/01/2009 04:29:21 »
Thanks for the report Demo--
Testosterone Prolactin balance, very interesting--
Congratulations on your relationship with this physician, sounds hopeful--
Is the assumption that a patch will stabilize the testosterone at a lower level, or just stabilize it generally?
In a previous post, I recall there being some consideration with Prolactin/Dopamine balance. Is this still a consideration?
Thanks for the update---

Thanks, Underwater. The idea is to stabilize the testosterone level to a higher level, and not erratically as I did before with depotestosterone. Prolactin/dopamine? No, must've been someone else. Thanks again.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2844 on: 14/01/2009 04:33:38 »
I've just read your last post Demo, this sounds extremely encouraging. (Please correct the error high testosterone in your last post [:)]). I'll search about this new treatment he gave you.

Martin, thanks for catching that error! (I fixed it). I have to be careful around Martin! [:)] And thank you for the positive feedback about today's POIS cure-search-in-progress!
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 04:37:25 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2845 on: 14/01/2009 05:07:31 »
Demo, before you took the first DEPOtestosterone were you low in testosterone ? If elevated prolactin is linked with low testosterone perhaps DEPOtestosterone blocked your own T production thus increasing PRL (?)

Also a nice thing would be to test for estrogen while taking testosterone to check for possible aromatization as it was mentionned by other forum members. I read that a possible side effect from your new treatment is gynecomastia (caused by aromatization), but probably you don't take a big dose, and your endo know what he's doing.
PSA should be tested too.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 05:24:32 by martin88 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2846 on: 14/01/2009 05:20:42 »
Demo, about occasional hostility, rage and even blind fanaticism when sexually abstinent, here is the best I can say that has been helpful:.........

Martin, perhaps you missed my point: I simply believe that sexual/orgasmic repression is unhealthy at some point. It is different for everyone. I don't wish to "fix" that, I simply will respect it. For me, that means to not be chaste beyond 6 weeks or so. I also don't believe that is abnormal; just the opposite: it proves that we are sexually expressive beings! Suppresssion of natural desires can make one become ill (e.g., hostile, aggressive, depressed, etc.). For example, and I know this is very controversial, but I believe that the problem shows very clearly in some (but not all!) celibate clergy. I'm absolutely sure not everyone agrees with me. [:)]
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 05:48:49 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2847 on: 14/01/2009 05:32:33 »
Demo, before you took the first DEPOtestosterone were you low in testosterone?
Maybe, but the test may have been faulty, it was standard urological testing, but the current tests were more comprehensive. My prime objective was to follow a Czechoslovakian sex therapist's theory that POIS can be cured with testosterone.
If elevated prolactin is linked with low testosterone perhaps DEPOtestosterone blocked your own T production thus increasing PRL (?)
Yes, it's possible. The doctor admits he is trying the best experiments with the data at hand. If wrong, we will switch course.
Also a nice thing would be to test for estrogen while taking testosterone to check for possible aromatization as it was mentioned by other forum members before. I read that a possible side effect from your new treatment is gynecomastia (caused by aromatization), but probably you don't take a big dose, and your endo know what he's doing.PSA should be tested too.
"Your endo knows what he's doing" is my motto. One could go crazy trying to "play doctor" when one is not a doctor. My philosophy is find the best doctor that I can as a limited non-medico human being and to then give him full creative expression and promote his absolute best thinking. My input to him will be extremely selective. I will only change that when I see or suspect something drastically wrong. I have been moderately successful in my life doing that. Could I die following that philosophy? Yes. [:)]

PSA is tested regularly with urologist.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 05:46:33 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2848 on: 14/01/2009 05:52:20 »
Underwater, I might have confused you with high vs. low testosterone. Martin caught the error in my lengthy post and I fixed it.

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2849 on: 14/01/2009 06:03:49 »
UPDATE: MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST AND I PARTNERING A SEARCH FOR POIS

Thanks for the update Demo.  I wish I could get more tests myself, but the doctors here have abandoned me long ago.  Just want to say if someday there is some research study, and they need test subjects, just tell me when and where and I'M THERE.

Btw - does any notice heavy palpitations during POIS?  This usually happens after a meal, execpt during POIS, its amplyfied to the point I can feel my pulse in my hands and head...drives me nutts!