[demografx]

[POIS'] existence causes fear, anticipatory fear. [Emphasis by Demo]

Underwater, this is an excellent point! When we assess the damage of POIS, we don't give ourselves enough credit for persevering through the dark cloud of non-POIS time spent - even if only subconsciously - but it's still there - in dreaded anticipation of "the (inevitable) next round" of POIS.

It's constantly hanging over our heads, the Sword of Damocles!

[demografx]

FORUM SITE VIEWS

If my math is right, since yesterday it looks like we have about 1,400 site views per day here! Lots of (welcome) POIS-lurkers []

[demografx]

wow!

B_Jim, it's because of your science! []

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

Day 2 of Testosterone patches and, interestingly, it feels like they are speeding up this nasty POIS' winding down (Day 6). But it could be a placebo effect. The months ahead will tell.

[SteveD]

Spent 2 hours this morning in meditation. Revised percentages slightly.
                         
                    Total % loss
1) openness to dating    2% loss
2) dating                     5% loss
3) arousal behavior      10% loss
4) genital contact         20%loss
5) orgasmic sexuality   95% loss

For two days my partner and I have rolled back the Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome activating activity from stage 4) genital contact, to stage 2) dating only. Not at all surprisingly the pre orgasmic losses (loss of personality) have decreased four fold , as the numbers indicated they would.

Two things are surprising...First, how irritable I feel. Not really that surprising considering the level of dopamine, I believe, is released in my brain with genital contact.

But the shocking thing is the time. It seems that there is an inversely proportional relationship to the profundity of the effect of POIS, at all levels, and the amount of time that the disease takes up in my life. For example, orgasm only takes seconds to transpire but causes 75% of the loss of my personality, whereas 'openness to dating' causes only 2% of personality loss and yet takes up an indeterminately, but hugely large amount of time.

I'm going to enjoy all that free time that being free of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome gives me...just for today

[OmBass]

Hey again guys,
I just wanted to share my experience in overcoming POIS, as i thought it might be helpful for people.
It all comes down to the adrenals!!!! Trust me on this. And the adrenals are VERY overlooked by Western medicine. Your endocrinologist will tell you that they are fine, as mine did. Thats because they dont recognize them as being a problem at all, until they are completely failing. Western medicine actually provides a lot of disservice in that regard, and they dont get to the bottom of problems, they just pile pills on top which often just makes it worse. They overlook very key organs such as adrenals and liver. I dealt with adrenal and liver problems for many years, and overcame them through simple, home methods.I can tell you these things for sure:

AVOID ALL STIMULANTS!!! This includes coffee, sodas, etc.

AVOID AS MANY DRUGS AS POSSIBLE!! This just puts a heavy burden on your liver, and an overloaded liver can also play a role in energy, sexuality, etc.

GET 8+ HOURS SLEEP PER NIGHT! This is very important. No 4-5 hours a night stuff, no jolting yourself awake with 10 cups of coffee.

GO SEE A GOOD TCM DOCTOR / ACUPUNCTURIST!! To overcome this problem, you need to open your mind to alternative therapies, especially TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) as they recognize the adrenals, liver, etc and pay them the importance they should be given.

READ UP ON ADRENAL FATIGUE/EXHAUSTION! This is a major condition, very overlooked, and from my personal experience, its at the base of the POIS problem.

I know its hard to understand that it all comes down to this vital energy force, but it kinda does. Your energy supply is so depleted, that an ejaculation puts you into energetic backlog. During this energetic "low" you feel like sh1t. I have been there! You need to get your energy reserves up, and once you have a store there, you can ejaculate without feeling bad afterwards. I know a friend who suffered through the same exact problem, and overcame it through the same methods.

If you have any questions for me, feel free to email me at ombass (at) mac.com

Good luck to all!

[demografx]

OMBASS:

From where do you get your wealth of experience about POIS, specifically? Have you treated sufferers successfully? What are you selling?

TO ALL:

If anyone emails OmBass and gets a personal pitch selling something, please let me know! It is not allowed here and he will be banned. Thank you.

[girlwind]

Hey again guys,
I just wanted to share my experience in overcoming POIS, as i thought it might be helpful for people.
It all comes down to the adrenals!!!! Trust me on this. And the adrenals are VERY overlooked by Western medicine. Your endocrinologist will tell you that they are fine, as mine did. Thats because they dont recognize them as being a problem at all, until they are completely failing. Western medicine actually provides a lot of disservice in that regard, and they dont get to the bottom of problems, they just pile pills on top which often just makes it worse. They overlook very key organs such as adrenals and liver.

We've already explored the issue of the adrenals here--as in the CORTISOL issue. And have recognized it as ONE
of the possible factors in creating POIS. It has definitely helped me to boost my adrenal energy/cortisol via use of
adaptogenic herbs and vitamin supplements for adrenals, as well as regular eating/sleeping habits--just recently
addressed here by C.P. However, there is more to the story of POIS than just adrenal dysfunction. We have an entire
frontier of hormonal and neurotransmitter issues to contend with in addition.

[Counterpoints]

Hi Ombass,

I believe cortisol is a factor in my post-orgasm symptoms.  However, your "vital energy" theory does not make sense in my case.  Sometimes orgasm can alleviate my symptoms! Besides, intense physical exertion does not cause these symptoms.

Also, I don't drink coffee (it makes me feel weird and actually does cause some POIS like symptoms), and I don't have soft drinks (it just doesn't appeal to me... I'd rather have water or milk, or tea).  And I get 8 hrs sleep a night.  I still get awful POIS symptoms though.  So that's not enough.  If cortisol is the key factor with me, then cortisol reducing supplements or medications might help. 

[Counterpoints]

Possible POIS source?

List of symptoms of Pheochromocytoma:

Symptoms vary greatly with each patient. Sterotyped textbook cases of Pheochromocytoma are rare. Symptoms can include:

    * Headaches
    * Nausea
    * Vomiting
    * Weight loss or gain
    * Hypertension
    * Hyperglycemia
    * Diabetes
    * Diabetes-like symptoms
    * Palpitations
    * Angina Chest Pain
    * Clammy skin Cold skin
    * Anxiety
    * Nervousness
    * Panic
    * Feeling of impending doom
    * Rapid pulse
    * Rapid breathing
    * Breathing difficulty
    * Vision disturbance
    * Impaired vision
    * Orthostatic hypotension
    * Fainting
    * Sweating
    * Flushing
    * Abdominal pain
    * Flank pain
    * Constipation
    * Paresthesia (tingling, prickling, numbness or burning sensations)

To read more, and to see about screening, see: http://www.pheochromocytoma.org/sys-tmpl/frequentquestions/

   

[underwater]

OMBASS---
Thanks for your contribution. Could you please elaborate a bit on your diet; any special foods to boost energy, strengthen adrenals? Any effective supplements?
Herbal Medicine (including TCM)? I would very much appreciate any specific recommendations that you know to be effective in your case. Thanks Again-------

[demografx]

Open Message To OmBass:   (also sent to his email)

After our email exchange, I feel that you do seem sincere.

We have had other new forum members here, banned for their sales pitch, claiming a "cure" on their very first post, so that was a red flag here. As Girlwind points out, besides adrenal dysfunction, there are a host of issues we have been exhaustively considering. And we also know "one size does not fit everyone", e.g., increasing cortisol may be important for one POIS sufferer, but lowering cortisol is more important for someone else.

"Adrenal fatigue scams" abound, unfortunately, and the integrity of this forum is crucial to its eventual success.

So, welcome again.

[demografx]

Relora and Fenugreek

Any news here?

Any new supplements, drugs, techniques to report?

Good or bad, please let us know!

[underwater]

Demo-----OUT of the BOX RAMBLINGS
In previous posts I believe you've discussed your fingers. For years I've been thinking about symptoms that just don't make any sense. Since the early 90's, I get back pain and groin burning. It's part of my POIS, but it is so illogical since it seems that it should derive from long distance running and basketball. So I believe it comes from both. About you finger sensations. Are they not pre-POIS as well as POIS? If so, might this discomfort arise from two conditions? Might orgasm with its (probable) hormones and neurotransmitters trigger such a tsunami of nervous system chaos that it joins up with a lot more than we think e.g. other predispositions, latent conditions, injuries , psychological reactions etc? POIS may join with other "weaknesses" (for lack of a better term) to appear quite varied, thus a great range of symptoms in different people. I recall that in years past, if my back was unusually relaxed, my POIS sympoms would be diminished. [The opposite is brutally true.] Thus, as I discussed about a month ago in one of my earlier posts, there may be neuromuscular weak points in some of us (as well as other vulnerable points in our body,mind) that are exploited by POIS and make "it" worse than it should be. Perhaps we should be looking at more than just orgasm, albeit orgasm the apparent precipitating act. This is why I think for some people POIS seems like a near permanent condition rather than a strict post orgasm issue. There may be POIS LIKE conditions already.Thus for me, when my GAD is gone (75% of my adult life), POIS is quite uncomfortable but tolerable: The other "weaknesses" don't pile on. But when GAD is present, POIS is just awful. Theoretically, if you could rid yourself of finger problems, do you think your POIS would be diminished. Could you isolate causes of your finger "weaknesses"?. For me, I've spent $5,000 last 6 months working on my back. But since my GAD has remained, I can't tell if it is worth it. I hope to know soon. 

[demografx]

Demo-----OUT of the BOX RAMBLINGS
In previous posts I believe you've discussed your fingers. For years I've been thinking about symptoms that just don't make any sense. Since the early 90's, I get back pain and groin burning. It's part of my POIS, but it is so illogical since it seems that it should derive from long distance running and basketball. So I believe it comes from both. About you finger sensations. Are they not pre-POIS as well as POIS? If so, might this discomfort arise from two conditions? Might orgasm with its (probable) hormones and neurotransmitters trigger such a tsunami of nervous system chaos that it joins up with a lot more than we think e.g. other predispositions, latent conditions, injuries , psychological reactions etc? POIS may join with other "weaknesses" (for lack of a better term) to appear quite varied, thus a great range of symptoms in different people. I recall that in years past, if my back was unusually relaxed, my POIS symptoms would be diminished. [The opposite is brutally true.] Thus, as I discussed about a month ago in one of my earlier posts, there may be neuromuscular weak points in some of us (as well as other vulnerable points in our body,mind) that are exploited by POIS and make "it" worse than it should be. Perhaps we should be looking at more than just orgasm, albeit orgasm the apparent precipitating act. This is why I think for some people POIS seems like a near permanent condition rather than a strict post orgasm issue. There may be POIS LIKE conditions already.Thus for me, when my GAD is gone (75% of my adult life), POIS is quite uncomfortable but tolerable: The other "weaknesses" don't pile on. But when GAD is present, POIS is just awful. Theoretically, if you could rid yourself of finger problems, do you think your POIS would be diminished. Could you isolate causes of your finger "weaknesses"?. For me, I've spent $5,000 last 6 months working on my back. But since my GAD has remained, I can't tell if it is worth it. I hope to know soon. 

Underwater, wow, $5,000 for working on your back. I hope you get positive news soon!

My fingertips pre-POIS...one of my puzzles is trying to figure out just when my POIS started. I remember POIS episodes 30 years ago but before that I draw a blank.

One thing I'm certain though, is that the dry fingertips' intensity is never felt outside of POIS. And for whatever reason, the feeling can be agonizing. It's somehow related to the post-orgasmic, unleashed "nervous system chaos" you describe very well.

I do occasionally have a low-intensity fingertips problem, usually when I try to go beyond 5-6 weeks abstinence. In both cases, there seems to be an associated anxiety tinge, as well as a relationship to "sex" (either post-orgasm or from "orgasm-deprivation")

I don't have anything that I can pinpoint that is similar to your GAD-POIS correlation; my POIS seems like an equal-opportunity destroyer. I have not been able to isolate any one variable that makes POIS more or less sufferable.

One exception: if I have zero responsibilities and can just "sleep through POIS", it's more tolerable. Although at the end there is a remorseful feeling of waste, and more difficulty regaining adaptability to the outside world. I'm not sure if the tradeoff of more POIS tolerability for poor real-world post-POIS adjustment is worth it.

Interesting question you ask, "if you could rid yourself of finger problems, do you think your POIS would be diminished." The truth is, I don't know! But it would be nice to eliminate just that symptom.

Thanks, Underwater, your post definitely made me think more about "pre-POIS" pathology and POIS relationships.

[demografx]

Possible POIS source?

List of symptoms of Pheochromocytoma:

CP, I'm missing something basic: why are you asking us to look at Pheochromocytoma and it's huge, all-encompasssing symptom list? You mention "Possible POIS source" - but I still don't understand what you have in mind. Probably my poor post-POIS adaptability []

[Counterpoints]

Possible POIS source?

List of symptoms of Pheochromocytoma:

CP, I'm missing something basic: why are you asking us to look at Pheochromocytoma and it's huge, all-encompasssing symptom list? You mention "Possible POIS source" - but I still don't understand what you have in mind. Probably my poor post-POIS adaptability []

Pheochromocytoma can cause cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline, dopamine, vanylmandelic acid,  and blood pressure levels (amongst other things!) to fluxuate unpredictably.  It has been suggested to me by physicians that this could cause the unusual symptoms I feel post-orgasm (perhaps orgasm itself could further offset these chemicals, or could trigger some kind of leak).  Further, many of the symptoms that characterize this problem parallel what I've seen on this board -- especially those who mention heats, palpitations, etc.  I have already suggested a urine metanephrine test, which is one of the tests used to screen for this -- there is a more comprehensive list of tests in the site I linked, as well as more information.  If anyone feels they should get some testing done, these are tests definitely worth considering -- in addition to cortisol, prolactin, and thyroid.

Excerpt:

Pheochromocytomas are catecholamine producing tumors of chromaffin cells, that can occur sporadically or as part of a familial syndrome. Although the majority are found in the adrenal glands, pheochromocytoma can basically be found wherever chromaffin tissue can be found. Ninety-seven percent have been found in the abdomen, 2% in the thorax and 1% in other regions.

The tumor is named for its colorful reaction in fixatives containing chromic acid salts. In modern day language, these tumors are often referred to as "pheos". Most pheos secrete a number of hormones, including norepinephrine, epinephrine, dopamine, vanylmandelic acid, and metanephrines. Pheochromocytomas are usually benign (non-cancerous), but can cause dangerously high blood pressure and other symptoms, including pounding headaches, heart palpitations, flushing of the face, nausea, and vomiting. Pheochromocytoma symptoms usually include paroxysms of extreme hypertension, accompanied by sweating, headache, and other autonomic disturbances, probably resulting from physical compression and/or ischemia of the "pheo". Doctors and patients often refer to these bouts as "episodes".

Pheochromocytomas can be found anywhere in the body, though most occur in the adrenal medulla. Even a tiny benign pheochromocytoma can make a person very sick. Regardless of location and appearance, the patients will usually report anxiety, headache, palpitations, panic attacks, sweating, and dizziness as some of the main symptoms. Extra-adrenal paragangliomas (often called extra-adrenal pheochromocytomas) are closely related and less common tumors. These tumors originate in the ganglia of the sympathetic nervous system and are named based upon the primary anatomical site of origin.

[demografx]

Counterpoints, thanks for the clarification.

[demografx]

POIS Research Study

The first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If anyone wants a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

[demografx]

So for pheochromocytoma or adrenocortical carcinoma, a urine test is best? What else should we test for as long as we're doing urine testing? Do you think everyone should take the test? What's the treatment for pheochromocytoma or adrenocortical carcinoma?