[Pro]

So Steve,

By not doing it in 18 1/2 years- are you cured? Or for you does it apply even to intercourse?

And B_Jim- Dissociation from Wiki : newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation [nonactive]


"depersonlization" also sums it up.

[underwater]

PRO
WELCOME---
I have many of your symptoms--I've had POIS at least 20 yrs-------------
You have found the right place for help--A lot of support---------------
You will get better---Talk to you later---------------------------------

[fellow sufferer]

Welcome Pro and SickLifeSaver ! Maybe can you give more details (number of days, flulike symptoms or not, tips helping you ... )

Pro, i really love your description of "unawakened" state, dissociation. I feel the same thing. You find the good expression. It's the more difficult symptom to explain to my doc.
I used the words :
- mental confusion
- stupor
- derealisation
- "i feel like sleeping" / dreamlike state
- loss of vigilance and loss of consciousness
   
At the moment, my best theory to try to explain this is the unbalanced ratio DHEA/cortisol. Saving cortisol release might be a key factor (avoiding all physical , psychological stressors as diet or light) and for flulike cases at least , inflammation.

 

[fellow sufferer]

my POIS is debilitating too. None of the physicains I have approached are able to diagnose the problem. I have worked on the overlying GAD which has somewhat reduced the dread I used to have but the terrible brain fog, severe pain in R hip and R leg still continue .
I have a delay post "O" of about 1 to 6 hours before this awful condition begins. This is my first time on this site. I hope it is the right place for me. You all seem to be very helpful for this mysterious complex plague!

[underwater]

Pro--
Here are a few observations I didn't have time to make this morning. [By the way, I noticed that among your symptoms are back pain, anxiety and depression. I also took meds for anxiety and depressions in the 90's] Just to let you know, I have a dual condition of POIS and Anxiety (GAD). I have found that exercise is a life saver for Anxiety and a temporary improvement for POIS. I've been long distance runner/swimmer for 32 yrs. Exercise = Endorphins. When I drink plenty of fluids, I feel better (hydration). Has helped me with both conditions. For me, staying away from alcohol and caffeine has helped with both conditions. When my anxiety disappears, my POIS is reduced; in other words, when my back pain, anxiety and depression goes, my POIS is not so debilitating. Except, I think my backpain might be here to stay due to age?  Supplements: I've taken supplements for over 30 years. Vitamin C is my constant forever (1,000-4,000 mg daily). I've changed supplements over the years and they never stay the same. Right now, on top of vitamin C, I take a B complex, D, fish oil, garlic, magnesium and potassium, also some calcium. I have many more vitamins, minerals, herbal medicines and supplements I experiment/alternate with, but have not recently added any permanently to my daily intake. Although I'm not sure what permanent means in the context of nutrition.  I exercise extreme prudence when it comes to engaging in an event that causes stress. These are anxiety triggers and POIS triggers. If I don't feel real strong, I avoid all stress triggers if I can help it. For back pain and groin pain which comes from anxiety and POIS, I get relief from self administered trigger point therapy and from the chiropractor. I have gone to chiropractor after POIS and have actually felt better for a short period of time. Deep breathing helps me for both anxiety and POIS. Psychiatric support has helped me with anxiety, and thus derivitively with POIS also, but not directly with POIS. This forum has helped a lot, because it gets one to focus.
For me, this forum is therapeutic and cathartic. I actually feel better as a result of constructive, positive dialogue. Since I feel better as a result, it strengthens my immune and nervous systems. It reinforces healing. It seeps into the subconscious. It actually becomes a tool. But I won't get into that. Too esoteric. 
This is on top of the physiological, theoretical, nutritional discussions etc. OKAY, I can't think of anything more right now------Too long winded-----------------

[underwater]

Hi fellow sufferer--
You're at the right place--
You'll find this place comforting, helpful and most of all focused on finding answers to the POIS nightmare. Personally, I'm more optimistic than ever since my discovery of this site. Great people, great dialogue and multiple perspectives. Just to let you know, I have GAD and POIS too.

[demografx]

WHY is this here? WHY has it destroyed my life- or has it?

Welcome, Pro.

Your questions are part of the agony many of us experience. I know this might sound childlike, but to me, POIS just doesn't seem "fair". What did we do to deserve this?

But the progress here has been phenomenal. Two years ago, there was no resource like this forum available. Anywhere.

[demografx]

None of the physicians I have approached are able to diagnose the problem....You all seem to be very helpful for this mysterious complex plague!

Welcome, fellow sufferer.

The number of medical practitioners who understand POIS is miniscule. One way to help that is to show your physician a copy of the medical study of POIS written up by Dr. Marcel Waldinger. (Please see my note above to SickLifeSaver how to obtain it).

Thank you for your compliments. We look forward to your future posts.

[demografx]

To the newcomers:

Some people here have experimented with the supplements Fenugreek and Relora. This is not a medical endorsement; ask your doctor or health care advisor if this is right for you. Previous forum posts below:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fenugreek+relora+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=

[SickLifeSaver]

Thanks for all the kind reply and I do think I made a great discovery with this group.  One thing I did not mention, is that my symptoms are usually not as bad when I masturbate, but even in my past relationship the persisted.  It was not like being nervous that got better, if anything it got worse.  I have taken in consideration GAD, and I do think it may be part of it, but my anxiety levels seem to have decreased over the past couple of years.  I am wondering if I need to some medication like buspar to help or maybe a beta blocker.  I find that most of sign/symptoms disappear as my heartrate decreases. As far as depression issues go, I was on prozac for a while and it caused me to be unable to ejaculate. I am not showing any of the signs or having any of the feeling of depression that led me to seek that medication and have been off of it for over a year now. Does anyone know if there is an alternative to Buspar?  Has anyone had their MD put them of betablockers for the condition?

[SteveD]

So Steve,
By not doing it in 18 1/2 years- are you cured? Or for you does it apply even to intercourse?

Pro,

Not masturbating 'cures' Pois from masturbating, but, that is about all... I experience Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome  with relationship/coupleship sexuality as well. I further find that, for me, I experience the symptoms of POIS in graduated degrees (see below)

Total % loss...For me
1) openness to dating    2% loss
2) dating                     5% loss
3) arousal behavior      10% loss
4) genital contact         20%loss
5) orgasmic sexuality   95% loss

Two things are worth mentioning, here. First, is this is simply my experience and in no way do I speak for the rest of the people on this forum. Different people have very different experiences, treatments and beliefs. What is common to us all is illness that we all experience upon orgasm.

Secondly, personally, I am working very, very hard on solving the problems that arise from being a POIS sufferer and being in relationship...and I'm making all kinds of mistakes, but learning very quickly.

and finally, I find the fellowship provided by this forum to be very valuable.

[SteveD]

I had a remarkable experience last night. During the last nine months of being sexually, but not orgasmically sexual, there have been, on rare occasions, some seminal loss. Last night was one of those nights. Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome strikes me about 85% of the time when I am orgasmic. Last night was one of those 15% “free pass “ nights. That was not remarkable. What was remarkable was that the vulnerability that I felt due to seminal loss, accompanied by the utter safety I felt with my partner caused a deeply profound bonding in me towards her. Suddenly the biologic of people (generally recognized in men) feeling vulnerable after orgasm and then bonding with a safe mate, due to the vulnerability of being post orgasmic made sense.
I think, in me, as POIS sufferer that neurochemical reaction of orgasm is overly pronounced creating pathology, instead of creating an opportunity to bond more closely with an emotionally appropriate mate.

 

[underwater]

Steve--
Good News, Interesting News--
The sense of what you are saying goes beyond the articulated words--
Could "free pass" be a bit more complex than we suspect? Maybe yes, Maybe no--

[underwater]

Steve--
Very interesting news--It's positive news--
I have been very curious about the "escape" experiences people have talked about--
Because if you can escape once ,twice, thrice............?

[girlwind]

Hello to the newcomers--In my case, I have found considerable alleviation of POIS symptoms
by taking adrenal boosting supplements and herbs: Vitamin C with pantothenic acid, schizandra,
siberian ginseng, DHEA, and maca. In addition, managing my thyroid by avoiding goitrogenic
foods (cabbage and peanuts and soy being the worst), getting enough iodine in my diet--with
sea salt and seaweed being included in my diet, and taking the Indian herb--Ashwaghanda to
assist the thyroid, have helped me even more. I had a nocturnal orgasm a few nights ago, and
had practically NO symptoms! In fact my energy has been really good since. Hurray! This gives
me great hope!

I should also add that having regular eating and sleeping habits has been critical for me in aiding
the "cortisol" boost that I so badly needed. I could lose all my progress if I was not disciplined
with that.  And yes, this forum has been a huge support and help as well. Lots of great insights
from all ends of the spectrum.

[underwater]

Girlwind--
Glad to hear positive news--Steps in the right direction--
Deep in my gut I suspect a broad holistic approach may be
the most valuable to me. I don't see how we can ever separate the physiological and psychological. Descartes is long gone. It may be too extreme to say "mind over matter", but how about "mind with matter"? This is what I sense from the many posts here with many perspectives. I have gone back and forth like a ping ping match for 20 years, gravitating toward pure chemistry at times and then being thrown back into a psychological/behavioral black hole. I can entertain negative thoughts, and then, abracadabra, I don't feel so great. I didn't mention in an earlier post re: supplements that I have also added selenium and iodine to my morning supplement intake. But my biggest "plus" that I have felt the last month has probably been connected to a big boost in vitamin B. It was way too low. My GAD is almost gone, but is lingering stubbornly. Thank you for your updates----------------------------

[demografx]

Is anyone else having screen problems today? On this forum, the display is "too large"

[demografx]

TESTOSTERONE

Today is Day 4 of wearing 2 Testosterone patches prescribed by my endocrinologist for POIS.

From Day 1, I felt better (patches work right away). Since my testosterone is low, feeling better makes sense.

Whether this will lower my sky-high prolactin and then "cure" my POIS, another month or so and I will know.

I'm very optimistic with this new doctor. He takes POIS VERY seriously and is committed to helping me find the way to POIS-freedom!

For more background info on this post:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg217326#msg217326

NOTE: Testosterone therapy is not a forum recommendation! Consult your health care advisor to see if it's right for you.

[underwater]

Demo--
Glad you're feeling improvement with testosterone patches. I hope that they prove to be effective/beneficial when the "time" comes. This is an important experiment. I've always wondered (like everybody else probably) whether testosterone was a critical hormone in POIS. After all, it is produced front and center so to speak. My last test at M.D. came back okay. Regarding posting problems this morning, YES, I had a problem. That why I had two very similar postings showing up at same time. Screen indicated that my message wasn't accepted, but it actually was. It was a bit confusing. OH Well! Back to Testosterone: "Theoretically", is addressing a deficiency possibly enough in itself, or might it also balance out prolactin somehow ?

[demografx]

Demo--
Glad you're feeling improvement with testosterone patches. I hope that they prove to be effective/beneficial when the "time" comes. This is an important experiment. I've always wondered (like everybody else probably) whether testosterone was a critical hormone in POIS. After all, it is produced front and center so to speak. My last test at M.D. came back okay. Regarding posting problems this morning, YES, I had a problem. That why I had two very similar postings showing up at same time. Screen indicated that my message wasn't accepted, but it actually was. It was a bit confusing. OH Well! Back to Testosterone: "Theoretically", is addressing a deficiency possibly enough in itself, or might it also balance out prolactin somehow ?

Thanks, Underwater! It's really nice to get positive feedback here from "people who REALLY know!"

If there is anything to the theory (for men) that semen-loss is correlated to POIS, then testosterone makes sense because I think that it speeds up semen production. And the T-patches mimic the body's steady flow of T-production vs. the erratic peaks and valleys that the injectables produce, which is what I tried before.

Very astute question, Underwater, "might [testosterone] also balance out prolactin somehow?" That's exactly what the endocrinologist's theory is!