[demografx]

Have a look at this New York Times article:

Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

Reuniting, thanks for that article! I would call that short-term POIS!

I just started testosterone therapy via patches. Interestingly, much of my depression lifted within 4 days! A psychiatrist confirmed that it happens frequently with low-testosterone men. Now I hope it can make a dent in my POIS, as the endocrinologist theorizes. My prolactin readings are sky-high and the hope is that the testosterone treatment will lower the prolactin and ameliorate the POIS.

Nice to see you posting again.

To everyone: Reuniting has a very interesting website with many POIS-related aspects:
www.reuniting.info

[demografx]

Email to Author of New York Times article above, posted by reuniting:
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

In a message dated 1/20/2009 2:40:32 P.M. PST, demografx writes:

Dear Dr. Friedman,

I was very glad to see your article because it describes a sadly unrecognized condition.

I invite you to visit a forum that I moderate, "Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome"  (POIS) at
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.new#new

We have had hundreds of POIS sufferers visit and post, and perhaps thousands lurking (200,000+ site views).

Thank you again for your article and I hope that you can inform your readers in the future that there are fellow sufferers willing to share information on treatments and allay some of the anxiety of being "the only one who has this problem."

You may be interested to know there is a medical study done on this condition, which is attached.

Sincerely,

Demografx
POIS Moderator

[NOTE to forum: the "medical study" I attached is Dr. Waldinger's.]

[girlwind]

                    Total % loss...For me
1) openness to dating    2% loss
2) dating                     5% loss
3) arousal behavior      10% loss
4) genital contact         20%loss
5) orgasmic sexuality   95% loss

After a two day experiment at stage 2), for us, dating, my partner and I went back to stage 4), for us, non orgasmic genital contact.

I'm feeling fatigued, confused, flushed, tired, runny nose, arthritic in my knees and lower back.
I'm negotiating with my partner to do a three day experiment at stage 2, for us, after the long weekend and before a three day trip we have next week.

Steve, please stay on topic. This is a medical forum on postorgasmic difficulties. "1) 2% loss - openness to dating  2) 5% loss - dating and the like is not serious or scientific discussion of post orgasm.  

This is not a blogsite as you call it. Repeated posts to this effect will be grounds for dismissal. Thank you.                  

STEVE--

I have really appreciated your input regarding "arousal behavior" and how that affects your energy and state
of mind. I don't feel that this is "off topic," as it adds another dimension to the POIS issue. When I've thought
about this, I've realized that many of the "addictive relationships" that I've had in the past led to some of the
worst POIS episodes I've had. Probably because the STRESS of those involvements had a negative or exhausting
impact on my adrenals and my cortisol levels. 

DEMO--

There is definitely something about the "how" of sex is "performed" that has an  impact on the "what" of the
orgasm. Perhaps it has something to do with setting up exactly the WRONG kind of neurochemistry. Consider-
ing how much talk there has been about neurotransmitters and the emotional symptoms (anxiety, depression,
and other mood disorders) brought on by out-of-balance hormones, I don't think it's irrelevant to the forum
to discuss the arousal behavior issue and its impact on POIS.

[John21 (OP)]

Demo, I'm glad to hear the testosterone is providing relief for you!

Very interesting article, just imagine if it mentioned us in passing, it would have been a wide net...maybe next time.  []

I'm still chaste, and wishing I was from the beginning. I have grown more convinced that sex outside of emotional attraction is naturally detrimental to a person's well being.

[demografx]

I don't think it's irrelevant to the forum to discuss the arousal behavior issue and its impact on POIS.

I agree. But the off-topic nature has gone far beyond that. To the point of hijacking the purpose of the forum. I stand by my statements.

[Counterpoints]

Currently I am not experiencing any symptoms of POIS , simply, because I am not being orgasmic.

Thanks Steve.  Tangential discussions are encouraged, but the main purpose of this specific thread, as I understand it, is to share critical information which will help us overcome this illness.  With this in mind, it is best to be precise and succinct, when possible.  Too much peripheral discussion hijacks the thread, and makes it hard for newcomers to sort through all of this information, and find the posts that will be most helpful to them.  If you feel the need to continually express the specifics of how this problem affects your romantic life on a day to day basis, (e.g. whether or not you are 2% more open to dating at a given time, e.g. whether or not the atmosphere in a 5 star restaurant made you aroused, etc.), I encourage you to continue this dialogue privately with those who have expressed interest. 

[demografx]

Demo, I'm glad to hear the testosterone is providing relief for you!

Many thanks, John. I hope it can provide relief for others, too. Standard testosterone tests aren't enough to reveal the deficiency.

Very interesting article, just imagine if it mentioned us in passing, it would have been a wide net...maybe next time.  []

I don't know if you saw my email to the author, above. That's exactly what I asked for.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg219221#msg219221

I'm still chaste, and wishing I was from the beginning. I have grown more convinced that sex outside of emotional attraction is naturally detrimental to a person's well being.

John, I wish I saw the difference in my life. Some of my absolute worst, most devastating POIS episodes have come from NE's, in some cases just "harmlesss" physical releases with no "lust" attached to it! My only escape from the horror of NE was aging.

Married for over 30 years, I have observed that sex with "emotional attraction" was equally POIS-devastating, compared to NE's and/or "unchaste behavior". I must admit to the latter to maintain credibility []

ps - John, thank you for not being angry with me over our apparent disagreements on some issues

[demografx]

Currently I am not experiencing any symptoms of POIS , simply, because I am not being orgasmic.

Thanks Steve.  Tangential discussions are encouraged, but the main purpose of this specific thread, as I understand it, is to share critical information which will help us overcome this illness.  With this in mind, it is best to be precise and succinct, when possible.  Too much peripheral discussion hijacks the thread, and makes it hard for newcomers to sort through all of this information, and find the posts that will be most helpful to them.  If you feel the need to continually express the specifics of how this problem affects your romantic life on a day to day basis, (e.g. whether or not you are 2% more open to dating at a given time, e.g. whether or not the atmosphere in a 5 star restaurant made you aroused, etc.), I encourage you to continue this dialogue privately with those who have expressed interest. 

Very well said. Thank you.

[demografx]

Forum tech disruptions

Everyone is frustrated, I've written complaints.

For now, hitting the "Refresh" button is all I can suggest! []

[pyropeach]

Have a look at this New York Times article:

Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

This is an excellent article, Reuniting.  Finally, there is a legit article that sees this problem as a physiological/chemical malfunction.  It says his patients improved with SSRIs, but I have to say, the SSRI my neurologist gave me did nothing but reap hell upon me, and I had to get stop taking it after a week of tourture.  Has anyone else here tried an SSRI and found it improved symptoms?  If so, it would be evidence that serotonin is also part of the problem, and it would be something I would stress on my next visit to the doc.
 

Glad to hear the testosterone is helping Demo

[demografx]

Have a look at this New York Times article:

Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

This is an excellent article, Reuniting.  Finally, there is a legit article that sees this problem as a physiological/chemical malfunction.  It says his patients improved with SSRIs, but I have to say, the SSRI my neurologist gave me did nothing but reap hell upon me, and I had to get stop taking it after a week of tourture.  Has anyone else here tried an SSRI and found it improved symptoms?  If so, it would be evidence that serotonin is also part of the problem, and it would be something I would stress on my next visit to the doc.
 

Glad to hear the testosterone is helping Demo

Thanks, Pyro! I agree, very nice to have an article in The New York Times that treats POIS seriously, even if it is a 24-hour POIS.

I have not found SSRI's to be of help with POIS. That's just me, of course; testosterone helped me more with BOTH depression and POIS. Here are some forum posts that contain SSRI:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ssri+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=

But no champagne celebration yet. The testosterone worked on my POIS before - once - but it was depotestosterone. My current endocrinologist says that the patches that I'm now wearing work more similarly to the way the body actually produces testosterone, i.e., in a steady flow. That vs. the erratic peaks and valleys of injectables which I used before.

Hopefully, the patches will lower my sky-high prolactin and will thus lower or eliminate my POIS! If not, I have a doctor-partner that's willing to go back to the drawing board.

Oh well, I'm happy being a guinea pig for the forum []

[demografx]

Underwater,

I just looked at my lab report, and it shows in the testosterone area:

- Testosterone, Bioavailable

- Testosterone, Total

- (SHGB) Sex Hormone Globulin Binding

- Testosterone, Free

Underwater, in the above post, I left out LH (Leutinizing Hormone) another testosterone test.

What reminded me was that I just now got results of my repeat Testosterone and LH tests - they were both low again.

[Pro]

Hello again-

Thank you all for your responses and generous support. To my knowledge, the longest I have been in 20 yrs. w/out the big Orgsm is a week and a half. That really doesn't sound very long, does it?
What I remember during that time is that I felt more alive than usual- and I felt that I actually had the ability to control events in my life. Coming out of this abstinence was a gradual decline- 1st 'O'- no big deal- just a slight break in my momentum... 2nd 'O'- loss of motivation and energy. By this point... there was no way I was going to stop...3rd 'O'- loss of self-confidence and any logical plans for my future. I have also stopped for shorter periods of time and have "re-entered" the same way, just less dramatically.


***Do all people that have this illness have some other problem (mental, maybe physical), or is this illness the originator of these apparent problems?

Anyway, I have thoroughly researched and taken (for whatever reason) many supplements for the past 15 years. Here is what I'm taking now :

gnc Mega-Men multi vitamin
fish oil
lecithin
ginseng
ginko
vit b
vit c
spirulina
gnc fruit powder drink
chromium picolinate
DMAE
zoloft

Right now, I am thinking that high doses of spirulina, vit b, and lecithin are saving my ass.
I just started DMAE... has this been discussed here before?

By the way, for me zoloft (ssri) has worked... but just like everything else, after awhile- I can't tell if it is working anymore or not.

[pyropeach]

DMAE
zoloft

Right now, I am thinking that high doses of spirulina, vit b, and lecithin are saving my ass.
I just started DMAE... has this been discussed here before?

By the way, for me zoloft (ssri) has worked... but just like everything else, after awhile- I can't tell if it is working anymore or not.

I used to use DMAE long before finding this forum.  It did give me a slight mental boost due to the supposed increase in acetylcholine in the brain, and it did help overcome the brain fog a little, but ultimately it just gave me really bad headaches.  It didn't seem to combat the POIS, but rather just give me a little mental boost to fight the brain-fog...kinda like how cold medicine just masks the symptoms of the cold.

[John21 (OP)]

Demo,

John, I wish I saw the difference in my life. Some of my absolute worst, most devastating POIS episodes have come from NE's, in some cases just "harmlesss" physical releases with no "lust" attached to it! My only escape from the horror of NE was aging.

Married for over 30 years, I have observed that sex with "emotional attraction" was equally POIS-devastating, compared to NE's and/or "unchaste behavior". I must admit to the latter to maintain credibility

ps - John, thank you for not being angry with me over our apparent disagreements on some issues

Yes this is my experience too. I have been in relationships and have indeed suffered POIS. Yet I have also had the experience of feeling a strong connection during and having no symptoms, and my double vision immediately went away (woke up without it!) So I am wondering if emotions or lack thereof play a part in the development of POIS. Perhaps "emotional attachment" is a better description of what should be in place. When I was young with a shiny magazine I didn't have this "attachment". And for whatever reason perhaps some people's neurochemistry (ours) is more severely reactive to this.

Of course I am not angry with you, differing opinions are desirable in a forum. I sense that perhaps you are cautious of my pro-chastity/ anti-lust tack, as you know it is founded in my faith, which you reject. Am I right?

A short trial of DMAE did nothing for me, and years of SSRIs did not help POIS directly at all.

[SteveD]

...differing opinions are desirable in a forum. I sense that perhaps you are cautious of my pro-chastity/ anti-lust tack, as you know it is founded in my faith, which you reject. Am I right?

"how tired am I going to be, if I go through to the orgasm?" Though that is something I have now trained myself (quite successfully) to avoid.

John,

That's what has worked for me for 20 months, and I think Girlwind as well. I like what Nike says "Just don't do it".

[SteveD]

Orgasm...not sex, that is.

[underwater]

PRO
Yes, I have another condition besides POIS. I have an anxiety disorder.
My anxiety disorder very likely came first, 30 plus years ago. POIS evolved after that; when exactly I don't know. My anxiety disorder has been cyclical during my life.
I can have many years anxiety free. Right now I am, hopefully, concluding one of these episodes (anxiety) after 20 months. For me, the intensity of POIS is generally connected to my anxiety condition; much less when no anxiety, however a major depressant. I tried Zoloft for one year in the 90's. It didn't do anything. In this current anxiety episode, I have tried to refrain from "O". I intend to carefully watch the momentum gained from this latest anxiety-episode-resolution and see if it has an effect on POIS. This will be carefully observed, very likely, after a NE. 

[CertainlyPOIS]

Hey guys reporting on alpha 20c
I had a seriously unwanted Full NE but I used Alpha twenty right after and also before i went back to sleep at end of day. 5g powder form.    I don't know if it is fluke or not but my symptoms have improved.
No brain fog
Extreme tirdeness dissapeared 
I will report on concentration tomorrow and socialization after about two weeks.
I don't  know if i am a naturally quiet person or may be i am being affected by pois, i should know in about two weeks.

[underwater]

B_Jim---
Have you used fenugreek and relora only as a "before and after" experiment, or have you ever tried it/them on a daily basis? Thanks