[martin88]

About that rhodiola, it seems at least it had some effect on you, maybe you had to get used to it? Did you notice any other effects?

Unfortunately I couldn't notice any positive effect because I took it for a very short time. I'm not able to get used to it. The insomnia was really strong and unbearable. It's like it's the day during the night (for a lot of days after I took the pills).

[girlwind]

Girlwind--
I've noticed the same "adjustment isssues" you talk about. I've had some of my best days lately, but often times shortly after taking a
modest adrenal support supplement I feel a bit "down". But I graph my moods everyday, and there is improvement. Remember your
patience and perseverence admonition? The perseverence part is the hardest...

Thanks for reminding me about that patience and perseverance thing. I get so excited when I do something new, I
begin to think it will be an instant cure TODAY! Actually, right now would be good! So yes, progress not perfection,
I will have to chant it over and over in my head, while I meditate on my adrenals.   [8D] [8D] [8D]

[girlwind]

About that rhodiola, it seems at least it had some effect on you, maybe you had to get used to it? Did you notice any other effects?

Unfortunately I couldn't notice any positive effect because I took it for a very short time. I'm not able to get used to it. The insomnia was
really strong and unbearable. It's like it's the day during the night (for a lot of days after I took the pills).

Martin--

I know rhodiola is supposed to be adaptogenic and relaxing, but I have noticed that when I took it, it also made
me a little bit mentally hyper. It never worked as well as schizandra or ashwaghanda. Have you tried either of those?

[demografx]

If testosterone decreases prolactin, dopamine should be increased.

Martin, that's encouraging news for me. Thanks.

If I have daily sex it's devastating because I never recover.

Horrifically and horrendously true for me, even if it's only once a week.

[CertainlyPOIS]

If testosterone decreases prolactin, dopamine should be increased.

Martin, that's encouraging news for me. Thanks.

If I have daily sex it's devastating because I never recover.

Horrifically and horrendously true for me, even if it's only once a week.

Don you think if you sex everyday and dont give body chance to recover, the excess chemicals causing problem will keep compounding and just keep adding to the pain.

[CertainlyPOIS]

On sleeping sideways, i will suggest sleeping on couch is a little easier to sleep sideways on a couch.

[demografx]

Demografx, how are you doing on the testosterone at the moment, by the way?

Thanks for asking, Deloun. I think my body has adjusted somewhat to the testosterone patches, yet I think my overall mood has improved. I'm concerned now about my body shutting down it's natural ability to produce T and/or re-start production. When I asked the endo about that, he said that my body wasn't producing enough T, and that we'll discuss that in our next visit. Fair enough, I'm certainly not ready to rip out the patches at this point.

March 3, I will re-test blood for testosterone, prolactin, DHEA-S, and AM cortisol. On March 10, the endo and I will review the re-tests and decide the next step. We will also discuss things that others have brought up (thank you everyone) at this forum.

I'm starting to think more and more that my higher success last year (75%+ POIS cure!) was due to the combination of depotestosterone (injection) and Levitra. When I dropped the T last year, the POIS cure dropped to 50% and lower. I'm in no rush to re-validate but hopeful that it can even be better this year because of the smoother T-delivery of the patches vs. the injectables. We'll see.

[demografx]

On sleeping sideways, i will suggest sleeping on couch is a little easier to sleep sideways on a couch.

What if we roll over, falling off the couch and break...oh nevermind... []

[deloun]

Also, I have been noticing something weird lately. I sometimes go into the water fatigued and after a few laps feel just depleted. I fight not to get out. Then, after 15 minutes, I get some kind of rush, and I'm energetic.

I have also noticed that heavy physical exercise can make me feel a bit better when having POIS symptoms. Scientific research shows that heavy physical exercise can cause an increase of catecholamines, so that may explain why. I was already thinking about adding this point to the POIS noradrenaline theory list. Are there any others that notice a bit of improvement after heavy physical exercise?

Yes that happens to me all the time after exercising i get energetic but pois still exist.
I think it is because of endorphinns

In my own experience I don't experience it like after physical exercise that the POIS symptoms are just as severe and besides that feeling a bit better in a different way, but the reason that I feel a bit better after physical exercise is because the POIS symptoms itself are a bit reduced and I believe that can be because physical exercise increases noradrenaline and adrenaline.
I believe I've read it before here on the forum that others have experienced it too in this way.
Here's the scientific research I found that shows the increase of noradrenaline and adrenaline after physical exercise:
FREE AND CONJUGATED CATECHOLAMINES IN HUMAN PLASMA DURING PHYSICAL EXERCISE

[deloun]

Demografx, how are you doing on the testosterone at the moment, by the way?

Thanks for asking, Deloun. I think my body has adjusted somewhat to the testosterone patches, yet I think my overall mood has improved. I'm concerned now about my body shutting down it's natural ability to produce T and/or re-start production. When I asked the endo about that, he said that my body wasn't producing enough T, and that we'll discuss that in our next visit. Fair enough, I'm certainly not ready to rip out the patches at this point.

March 3, I will re-test blood for testosterone, prolactin, DHEA-S, and AM cortisol. On March 10, the endo and I will review the re-tests and decide the next step. We will also discuss things that others have brought up (thank you everyone) at this forum.

I'm starting to think more and more that my higher success last year (75%+ POIS cure!) was due to the combination of depotestosterone (injection) and Levitra. When I dropped the T last year, the POIS cure dropped to 50% and lower. I'm in no rush to re-validate but hopeful that it can even be better this year because of the smoother T-delivery of the patches vs. the injectables. We'll see.

Good that you keep a close eye on things. Good luck with it.

[martin88]

About that rhodiola, it seems at least it had some effect on you, maybe you had to get used to it? Did you notice any other effects?

Unfortunately I couldn't notice any positive effect because I took it for a very short time. I'm not able to get used to it. The insomnia was
really strong and unbearable. It's like it's the day during the night (for a lot of days after I took the pills).

Martin--
I know rhodiola is supposed to be adaptogenic and relaxing, but I have noticed that when I took it, it also made
me a little bit mentally hyper. It never worked as well as schizandra or ashwaghanda. Have you tried either of those?

I don't remember if I was mentally hyper. I think I just couldn't relax for the whole night to be able to sleep. After a while I started to feel a bit scared to stay like that forever. I tried ashwagandha and I think my pois was aggravated because of increased sexual frequency, however this wasn't a clear(immediate)effect. Schizandra I didn't try but it's on my list, it's interesting on paper!

[CertainlyPOIS]

On sleeping sideways, i will suggest sleeping on couch is a little easier to sleep sideways on a couch.

What if we roll over, falling off the couch and break...oh nevermind... []

I wish i can sleep that  good all the time

[underwater]

Also, I have been noticing something weird lately. I sometimes go into the water fatigued and after a few laps feel just depleted. I fight not to get out. Then, after 15 minutes, I get some kind of rush, and I'm energetic.

Yes that happens to me all the time after exercising i get energetic but pois still exist.
I think it is because of endorphinns

I have also noticed that heavy physical exercise can make me feel a bit better when having POIS symptoms. Scientific research shows that heavy physical exercise can cause an increase of catecholamines, so that may explain why. I was already thinking about adding this point to the POIS noradrenaline theory list. Are there any others that notice a bit of improvement after heavy physical exercise?

It's more than just "physical exercise" that has an impact on POIS. Sure, you can get an increase in adrenaline and noradrenaline. But the muscles and their fatigue cause the increases. What else may happen: glycogen deficits, amino acid imbalances, neuroendocrine imbalances, lactic acid increases or decreases etc. There is a connection between muscle metabolism and neurotransmitter metabolism. I speculate that for some of us that the inhibitory catecholamines are reuptaken and nor/epinephrine are not. For those that are on the "brain fog side of POIS", maybe
there is another route; Perhaps as I theorized in another post there is an inhibition in the transmission of stress signals from brain to adrenals? For me, on the amped up, electric/depressive side of POIS, it's becoming more and more convincing that I need to free up phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan or I'll always be at the mercy of epinephrine (& nor also), and especially their nasty nocturnal visits. Also, for those thinking about exercising, BE CAREFUL. It could backlash and make things a lot worse. Without question, part of my onset of fullblown POIS was due to over exercise.
This resulted in catecholamine imbalances. I also think on the "brain fog side" that if stress signals are inhibited from reaching adrenals, cortisol will be very low.
I'm obviously not a biochemist or anything close, but I will try to make my ideas clearer in the future. I guess the only thing going for me is my sensitivity to my own physiology and how I can affect it. This is the result of 35,000 miles of running,
1,000 miles of swimming and an obsessive monitoring of my anxiety etc. For me orgasm just triggers a confusion of catecholamines and totally mimics a panic attack. My body thinks its working out when its not, or it makes too big a deal about it. I guess this is another long rant-------------------------------------

[Counterpoints]

Also, with exercise, insulin can better remove sugar from the bloodstream.  Since some POIS symptoms are hyperglycemia like, this might be relevant.

[demografx]

I guess this is another long rant-------------------------------------

Not to me.

[girlwind]

Just in case anyone is interested, I am posting some info on healing the adrenals with low dose hydrocortisone.
I read a really good book several years ago by William Jefferies called The Safe Uses of Cortisol. Now that I'm
actually doing a treatment with it, I'm re-reading it. Jefferies was an endocrinologist (Clinical Professor of Internal
Medicine at the University of Virginia School of Medicine), who treated many patients with various medical disorders
that ranged from allergies, low blood pressure, gonadal dysfunction and infertility issues, to those who had been
adrenalectomized  for Cushing's syndrome, quite successfully, over many years, with low doses (what he terms "phy-
siologic doses") of cortisol. The essentials of his treatment protocol were 1) LOW DOSES--totaling 20 mg/day that
were 2) divided in 4 parts of 5 mg., taken before each meal. Boosting the energy of the adrenals with these low doses
improved both the energy level and immune functioning of patients with various disorders. The book basically con-
firms the info I got from Michael, as well as from my doctor. Now I am in the process of finding out for myself.

http://www.conscioushealing.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=57

[underwater]

Also, with exercise, insulin can better remove sugar from the bloodstream.  Since some POIS symptoms are hyperglycemia like, this might be relevant.

Excellent observation Counterpoints:
One of the reasons I started exercising diligently around age 26 was to try and control my blood sugar. There was diabetes in everyone on my father's side. As far as sugar and POIS is concerned, this is a real puzzle for me. At the M.D. my sugar is always fine, but that is basically irrelevant. I can tell that my blood sugar fluctuates, and I can tell that it affects POIS and GAD. Usually after dinner (not lunch or breakfast) my symptoms of POIS/GAD will improve. I assume it's blood sugar,
but lately (after my dull brain has been stimulated by this forum) I'm not so sure.
I know one thing for sure; too much sugar=insomnia,severe ringing in ears,sore throat, stuffed nose etc. Another thing that I now believe is that there appears to be a dominant POIS; essentially characterized by "brain fog". My POIS is different, but the time frame is the same, although I think many with "brain fog" share some of my symptoms e.g. anxiety, insomnia etc. With reference to sugar again, sometimes I get a type of diabetic rebound hypoglycemia if I have too much sugar. Weird!
When I was POIS and GAD free from 29-40 years of age, my exercise was high, stress controlled, sugar burned up completley, endorphins way up, sleep good etc. I lost control of my stress around 1990 as it got the better of me, and my panic/anxiety returned (like 1976) followed quickly by POIS. I feel that POIS was nearly undetectable in the early years, but as I reflect, I felt kind of "poor" many times.

[rob58]

As promised here is a list of the POIS symptoms that I have had now, unabated, for 35+ years.

Given a nightly orgasm, the subsequent morning is the start of day 1.  Day 2 is the worst. If I give that a score of 10, the dynamic pattern of my symptoms is: 
day 1: 8, day 2: 10, day 3: 6, day 4: 2.

My symptoms in order of severity:
  (1) spacy (disorganized, disoriented, forgetful, cannot retrieve words or other information as well, unfocused, slow-witted, difficulty changing course or initiating anything, poor at thinking through complex issues)
  (2) lack of energy (tired, sleepy, depressed)
  (3) physical distress (back ache, creaky joints, reduced stamina, difficulty focusing my eyes, reduced coordination and body control, field of vision seems affected -- I frequently bump my head)
  (4) dry (thirsty, dry mouth, hands feel dried out)
  (5) itchy scalp and increased hairloss
  (6) reduced resistance (become sick more easily)
  (7) panic attacks (claustro phobia increases)

Now for something completely different.  I do experience some positive benefits from POIS as well!
 (a) skin tone (esp. on day 1 I just look better to myself)
 (b) creativity (by being less focused I am more likely to come up with creative solutions to research problems etc.)
 (c) ability to deal with boredom (can tune out and vegetate more easily)
 (d) music appreciation (increased enjoyment from listening to music)
 (e) ability to catch (odd but true, I am like a magnet during POIS, have perfect timing and catch anything thrown to me at whatever speed []).

These symptoms and their severity have hardly changed during my life time. 
Will throw some pet theories at you in my next posting.

[demografx]

FIRST TRIAL LEVITRA AND TESTOSTERONE PATCH COMBO

Since several hours ago......very few POIS symptoms! First time with the patches. I'm cautiously optimistic and on guard for the placebo effect.

As scientific research demands, I'm keeping my toes and fingers crossed! []

[martin88]

FIRST TRIAL LEVITRA AND TESTOSTERONE PATCH COMBO

Since several hours ago......very few POIS symptoms! First time with the patches. I'm cautiously optimistic and on guard for the placebo effect.

As scientific research demands, I'm keeping my toes and fingers crossed! []

That's the post I was waiting for. So it's working! Hope too it's not a placebo.

Thanks a lot Demo and I don't know who else who wrote these forum guidelines (which are more rules I see!). I was not expecting to see this. I hope it will help to reduce further public exclusions (involuntarily or not). Also I think we may have lose some important information/help from the "annoying posters", but of course we'll nevertheless find the solution!